Using Helix as a rig command center

[blackeyeliner]

Hey Helix friends.

 

I've always been an analog guy playing strictly at home for my own pleasure (not an artist by any means), but really invested in how my guitar sounds. I got pretty good results using IRs, loadbox with an amp, preamp on board and pedals. I use switching loops to connect my amp via 4CM and it's perfect.

 

Recently I've bought HX Stomp and initially I thought it was another digital modeler, but over time I realized it can do 2204 preamp so good that plugged into a Marshall DSL40 return it sounds indistinguishable. It also does Fender Twin preamplification so good that I am debating whether I need my tube preamp anymore. I would want to continue using a tube amp anyway since it gives that real feeling of playing a real amp though.

 

That said, I arranged my board in a way that Stomp is the command center of it - I use two loops for "pre-amplifier" (pedals, bypassable preamp) and "post-amplifier" (power amp, stereo effects etc). That way I can use various presets to control which loop is in the chain and do a variety of tones - use a tube amp with a Helix modeled preamp, or use pedals with a Helix modeled amp and such. Sounds amazing.

 

The question I am having is - is there something I need to know or don't understand when I am doing this? Is there a downside hidden to that method of pedalboard/rig organization?

 

I am debating full-size Helix Floor purchase, because mainly it has features I'd love to use - digital out (although, direct Helix output to my Scarlett interface sounds so close to USB output of the Helix - Scarlett is good), connectivity options - Stomp has just two loops, where with Floor I'd be able to have four (pedalboard, preamp, poweramp, post-amp effects), expression pedal, more blocks, more processing, full routing, 12 switches.

[rd2rk]

Stomp was made to be mounted on a pedalboard. Floor doubles the size of your pedalboard. Other than that, I don't see a downside.

Did you have a specific worry?

[blackeyeliner]

16 hours ago, rd2rk said:

Stomp was made to be mounted on a pedalboard. Floor doubles the size of your pedalboard. Other than that, I don't see a downside.

Did you have a specific worry?

 

Yes, this is exactly what I'm debating over - having a Stomp on a pedalboard but adding a midi switcher (such as MS-3) to control all the loops I need, or doubling to a smaller pedalboard + Floor unit that will operate the loops. I like the idea of Floor better since it gives even more than just 4 loops over 2.

 

The worry that I have is whether or not I understand everything correctly. I am using Stomp (and potentially Floor) as a switcher. But at the same time, Helix devices are digital and digitize all the loops when I use them, so would there be problems with dynamic range, compression, A/D and D/A conversion and such? Does it affect the tone in a negative way?

 

From what I hear now with Stomp, it's pretty good - even better than it was without it actually, noise floor is lower due to isolation I presume (two devices I use on the pedalboard are tube driven - a Twin preamp and a Soldano-style overdrive).

[rd2rk]

5 hours ago, blackeyeliner said:

The worry that I have is whether or not I understand everything correctly. I am using Stomp (and potentially Floor) as a switcher. But at the same time, Helix devices are digital and digitize all the loops when I use them, so would there be problems with dynamic range, compression, A/D and D/A conversion and such? Does it affect the tone in a negative way?

 

No worries re dynamic range/compression.

Every DAC adds approx 2ms latency. If you're using all 4 loops on your Floor that's <8ms + 2ms for Helix itself, +wireless if you're using it. 

10ms is the low end of where the average guitarist HEARS latency (horns and vocalists less), but you MIGHT be able to FEEL the latency.

If you're heavily dependent on external effects requiring the use of loops, and very sensitive to latency, then an analog switcher would be the way to go.

[blackeyeliner]

17 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

No worries re dynamic range/compression.

Every DAC adds approx 2ms latency. If you're using all 4 loops on your Floor that's <8ms + 2ms for Helix itself, +wireless if you're using it. 

10ms is the low end of where the average guitarist HEARS latency (horns and vocalists less), but you MIGHT be able to FEEL the latency.

If you're heavily dependent on external effects requiring the use of loops, and very sensitive to latency, then an analog switcher would be the way to go.

 

Thank you for this - I missed it in my original assessment of potential issues. It is a problem, Helix itself adds several ms of delay, plug 2 ms per loop. At the same time, I'd like to still use loops because it gives me an ability to record DI signal (guitar to Helix, effects and amp in loop). That delay issue is probably the reason why I removed Digitech Trio+ from the board - it was introducing too much delay over everything else (my total delay went up to 12 ms and I definitely could notice at this point). So I think 4 loops would be a no-go.

 

But anyway, I am very impressed by Stomp capabilities as a reamping device, apart from being a great modeler altogether. Thank you for the advice.

[rd2rk]

6 hours ago, blackeyeliner said:

Helix itself adds several ms of delay

 

As I recall, Helix adds <2ms latency, AD on input + DA on output.