Output routing question for click track using Helix and Ableton Live 11

[hoppmyers1]

I've exhausted all my button tweaking, all web searches and dozens of Youtube videos to no avail and am now here once again at your mercy. :) I'm looking for someone familiar with Ableton Live and Helix floor.

 

I'm just a one-horse show at a small church, using the Helix Floor for my guitar, to control some Midi and hot key commands in Ableton as well as using Helix midi to control a synth pedal, drum machine and a looper. I'm also using the Helix as the audio interface into Ableton. I'm using Ableton to play some backing tracks. The backing tracks have a pre-recorded click track in each song. Everything is working as it's supposed to. 

 

I'm trying to figure out if I can send the single click track out of Ableton into the Helix and listen to the click track on wired headphones through one of Helix rear panel input/outputs, including the headphone jack and still get the backtrack songs to play out both left and right channels as they do presently, without the clicking. I'm able to get sounds and midi commands to go through from Helix to everything connected. 

 

My problem is that I don't quite understand the process of setting an output configuration in Ableton or how it applies to the input side of Helix. For example, in the Ableton preferences under the audio tab, the Helix Asio driver is present. If you click on the input or output config buttons, it lists a total of 8 inputs or outputs that can be turned off or on. I'm presently only using 1 & 2. I have no clue what to do in Helix after I've activated any of the remaining output channels (3-8) in Ableton. 

 

If this is doable, can you tell me what I would do on the Helix after configuring any of the remaining number 3 to 8 outputs in Abletons preferences? For example, if I choose output 4 under the click track and output 4 in the cue section of Abletons master volume (which I believe is what needs to be done to fix this) is there anything (settings/move cables, etc..) I can do in the Helix to be able to plug in a headphone and listen to track 4 while the music (and not the click) play out the 2 existing frfr's?     

 

Running Windows 11

Ableton Live 11 version

Helix Firmware 3.70

Helix to computer is connected via a usb cable.

Helix is set to: Midi over usb = on. Midi pc receive = midi and usb

Midi pc send is also midi and usb. 

Usb in 1/2 set to multi,  Headphones monitor= multi

Each of my 1/4" outs are each going to an frfr (left/right). I'm not using and of the spdif or xlr jacks.

Returns 1 & 3 on the Helix are being used to bring the drum and synth pedals into the mix.

Music from the Helix and Ableton are both going out the 2 frfr's.

I do not have a mixer board, stage monitors or direct boxes.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

[DunedinDragon]

I use the same components as you do (Helix and Ableton) in pretty much the same situation but not nearly as complex or convoluted and have been doing it now for 4 years. My approach is pretty straightforward.

 

In my case we have myself and two female vocalists.  I play guitar as well as sing so I use my Helix for what it's designed to do primarily which is configure the sound of the guitar through presets and snapshots for each song and the changes that need to happen during the course of the song.  This is all coordinated by a MIDI control track in Ableton which signals those changes through a Morningstar MC8 MIDI foot controller.  I have no additional gear beyond the mixing board which combines the backing track, the Helix output and the vocals for the performance.  There's really no need for a click track because the drum track coming from Ableton is more than sufficient just using count-ins as you would with a real drummer.  The real star of the show is my Native Instruments library of virtual instruments which I use to construct the backing tracks in my studio and run them on a laptop during the performance which is all controlled and organized through my Morningstar MC8 controller where I select the song and start it.  Everything else happens automatically without any interaction from me so I can just concentrate on the performance.  This is basically modeled after the way Disney does it's live shows in their theme parks and on their cruise ships.

 

In my case I construct all the instrument tracks in my studio using Native Instruments various libraries for things like drums, bass, keys, additional guitars, banjo, mandolin, string sections, horn sections, etc.  These are all high quality instruments built from samples of the actual instruments so they're indistinguishable from having actual performers playing them on stage.  But I can design them to sound the way I want them to sound and play what I want them to play.  In addition to the instrument tracks I have one MIDI Out track in Ableton that signals the Morningstar MC8 when something needs to be changed during the course of the performance and signals itself to stop when the end of the song.

 

Once I've built these tracks in Ableton's arrangement view, I convert all the musical output from my MIDI tracks to audio tracks which are then loaded into my laptop and run live in Ableton's session view and sent to the mixing board.  So in essence those virtual musicians are handled in exactly the same way as if they were live performers.

 

Here's an example of one of the backing tracks for the song "The Truth" by Megan Woods which we just started doing a couple of weeks ago.

The Truth

[hoppmyers1]

Thank you for your detailed response. I wish I had your 4 years of experience. It's been a challenging journey having to learn many of the various ways to control all the hardware. I had gotten through learning midi cc and using hotkey functions; just enough to keep me out of trouble. I thought I had learned enough to make a decent go of things. But that was before I decided to use a backing track.

 

In my searches on the click track, I came across several articles and videos on generating midi clips in Ableton to control Helix and decided that would be one of my next projects. I do understand that in most cases, the drum beat of the backing track is fine to use to follow along with the music, but unfortunately, the first backing track I uploaded into Ableton was a song called Breathe by Michael W Smith. The song starts with a synth pad lead in, then a spacey sounding classical guitar piece, followed by a short section of violin, before leading into the first verse which is mainly a piano piece. There's roughly 45 seconds of ambience and no drums. Immediately after that, the piano beat starts (still without drums).  I have the same problem when I start the drum machine on the second verse. The song goes into a bridge, the key shifts up and finally, the drum kicks in. That section where the violin ends and piano begins is a big challenge to hit the note right where it's supposed to begin. I watch the computer screen and try to time myself by jumping in when the cursor hits the clip to start the piano in Ableton, but I always seem to be off by a millisecond. Having the ability to hear the click in times such as this would be great, but it appears my thought process on how it might work is not valid.

 

Since everything I do is volunteer and on my own dime, I figured a way to help me out on this particular song without too much extra noise. I set up the click track to go out the left frfr only. I reduced the volume to where the click can barely be heard.  I chose a 4 beat section of the click track and then deactivated the rest of the clip, so I get a short, quiet 4 count that leads into the piano part and I hit the timing perfectly. So, basically, I get 3 seconds or so of a quiet click in the speaker and then it's gone. In a sense, it also helps the audience to know when to sing, as the singing starts right with the piano. 

 

I'm playing the spacey classical guitar piece on snapshot 1, my snapshot 2 turns off the guitar and some effects and then I play a violin piece played through a Boss GM-800 and then on snapshot 3, I play the piano also with the GM-800 and finally snapshot 4, I kick in the drum machine and change back to a guitar, until the very end, when the piano again becomes the main instrument.

 

Thanks again for your input. Nice job on the song; very clear and crisp with a nice beat.

 

 

[hoppmyers1]

Solved.........Well, kind of..................I did want to add one thing since my last post. I've basically figured out how to do what I had in mind by tweaking some more buttons, although it's somewhat of a Mickey Mouse setup. For someone who has massively complicated Helix patches and uses most of the playing field with effects and such, this would be a moot point, but someone such as myself who doesn't have complicated patches, this worked fine for me.

 

I went to Ableton preferences and clicked on/configured the outputs number 3/4.

In the clip track, I put "no input".

On the click track output setting, I sent it to channel 3.

In the master block of Ableton, I listed the cue out the same channel 3. The master block is still set to 1/2.

 

On Helix, I made a 3rd separate path. I threw an unused block (bypassed) on the third path to keep it on the Helix screen. On that 3rd path, I placed an input block of USB 3/4 (to match the click track send) and an output block going to spdif. With this set up, I'm able to plug my headphones into the Helix headphone jack and hear both the click track as well as all the other music tracks in the headphones. Music and no click track are coming out of the frfr's as I was looking for. 

 

 

[DunedinDragon]

A good resource for you might be Will Doggett.  He's been doing YouTube videos for years on this subject and was really the person I spent a lot of time following when I began doing this stuff.  Here's a link to a lot of his stuff:

 

Will Doggett Link

 

A specific link from Will Doggett for doing click tracks.

[hoppmyers1]

Yes, he does have a good selection of videos. I didn't recognize the name Will Doggett, but I have seen several of his StudiotoStage videos in the past few days, including the one you have linked to. He helped me to figure part of it out. Just not the Helix side of the settings. It's definitely a pain to learn all this stuff, but I'm picking up bits and pieces.

 

Thanks again for your help. Take care.