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DunedinDragon last won the day on March 25

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About DunedinDragon

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    Gear: Helix, Yamaha DXR12, Les Paul Standard, American Strat with Lace Sensor pickups, Gretsch Silver Falcon, Epiphone Sheraton II Pro
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  1. You're going to run into a LOT of people with strong opinions of what sounds best, but as the above post from rd2k most of the differences are pretty negligible. It's kind of like the DAW wars, all the DAWs do the same job as far as recording, but once you choose one and learn it, that's probably the one you'll stick with because you know it and can get what you want out of it. So the real questions come down to how much time and interest do you have to spend on understanding how to get the most out of ANY modeler? Modelers all do the same general things, but at varying degrees of control and complexity. The Helix Floor or Rack + Control would give you many more options for more complex setups and sounds than say the Stomp or the Pod Go, but do you think that will be important to you? If not now, will it be important in the near future? That's really the decision. I actually have two Helix Floor units. One is for live performance and one is for studio work and a backup to my live unit. When I got my 2nd unit for the studio, I possibly could have gone for the LT or maybe even the stomp. But I chose the Floor because it had all the additional inputs and outputs that would allow me to simultaneously plug in my guitar, acoustic, bass, keyboard and mic to the unit as well as a dedicated headphone volume control which is invaluable in one-person studio recording and overdubs which allowed me to streamline my recording process which I wouldn't be able to do on the smaller units. I could have done those things on the smaller units, but it wouldn't have been as easy. So ultimately it's going to be driven by what you really NEED and WANT to do with the unit to decide how much pf a unit you're going to really need. As far as IRs I'm quite certain I could get by with the stock cabinets, but the driving factor for me using IRs is they're faster to implement. I have about 40 or 50 loaded and I probably only really use about 20 or 30 consistently. But it took me a while to decide on the ones that best fit my needs (in effect what mic combinations and placements tend to sound the best to my ear on my patches). By having those IRs I don't have to play around with the parameters on a stock cabinet, I can easily just roll through my IRs and see what sounds best on any given patch I'm working on. The one thing you probably won't be happy with on the Helix will be the loop capabilities. It's very limited at this point and you'd likely want to use some external loop box if you're planning on doing anything very complex. I'd also encourage you to spend some time researching your output devices. If it's mostly in-house and recording and no live jam sessions or such you'd probably want to go with studio monitors. But in the speaker world you tend to get what you pay for, and i personally don't see the logic in attaching a premium level modeler to bargain basement speakers if you want to get the most out of your modeling experience.
  2. Or maybe you could be like the rest of the world is since the introduction of PC's at the desktop and have the discipline to save your work regularly. That's why we don't complain...we all learned our lesson 30 years ago.
  3. As codamedia points out, theoretically a fold back IS an FRFR speaker....but not always. In my experience if there's going to be a place where someone tries to save some money on their in house PA system it's likely going to be on the floor monitors and floor monitor system. In MANY cases they use non powered speakers driven by an amp which are just barely usable for voice, much less instruments. Even if the speakers are decent enough speakers, they sometimes don't have enough monitor channels to dedicate a monitor mix specifically for the guitar player, so you're stuck with the general mix of all voices and instruments mixed together. Because of these realities I just find it easier to just be prepared to take care of myself. Wattage isn't really a good way to measure loudness since wattage can be measured in a number of ways. The best spec in this regard for a more objective comparison would be SPL.
  4. To get back to your original question. There's no particular benefit in connecting to a powered speaker such as the Headrush and then out to the PA, but there are some particular disadvantages. One limitation in particular is that you really can't easily control your volume for your stage monitor separate from your output to the PA. What many of us do is send a 1/4" output at line level to the powered speaker and a XLR output at mic level to the mixing board with the XLR line disengaged from large Helix volume knob. This allows you to use the large Helix volume knob to control the volume of the stage speaker and send a full signal to the board which can be gain staged at the board to the appropriate level separate from whatever you do on stage. When it comes to Powercab versus a full range powered speaker, that's ultimately a matter of personal preference. I can't say I've ever been that interested in a Powercab setup because I started using my Yamaha DXR12 setup long before the Powercab came out. I think the Powercab is a nice option for those people that prefer more of an "amp in the room" kind of sound on stage. But that comes with the trade off of not having an accurate picture of what your sound is out front which is what's important to me personally....especially when I'm dialing in my presets at home. There are a couple of considerations to bear in mind when using a powered speaker however. First, if placed on the floor in a monitor position you can get an effect referred to as "bass coupling" which accentuates low end frequencies. On most higher end speakers you have DSP contouring options on the speaker that allow you to correct for this effect. The Headrush has no such option, so you would need to isolate it from the floor in some way or place it upright on a stand. The other consideration is that powered speakers are specifically designed to work differently from traditional cabinets in the way they project sound in order to have consistent tone across a wide area and to project better across long distances. That being the case they can sound pretty harsh close up, so when dialing in patches at home you need to give them a bit of space. For myself at home I have mine mounted vertically around chest height and I normally listen from about 6 feet away as well as off-axis to get a good feel for what the tone will ultimately be like for the audience. Likewise on stage I have my DXR12 mounted on a half height pole on the backline behind me. That allows the sound to disperse wider across the stage so it's easier for the band to blend with.
  5. The Floor Monitor selection is specifically designed to address bass coupling and would be the logical choice. I'm not sure any of the others are going to do much for you other than possibly exacerbate the problem. As I said before I use the default setting but that's because I have mine mounted on a half-height pole behind me in the backline so it's very accurate. The other thing you sacrifice when using it as a floor monitor is you don't have a very wide sound field. All of these speakers are designed to have a very wide sound field and a limited vertical sound field when setup vertically like on a pole. When setup horizontally the sound field is just the opposite with a limited width and a lot of height. The problem you can end up with is the rest of the band may not get the benefit from the monitor that you're getting as compared to when it's mounted on a pole in the backline. Also if you're playing a smaller venue without PA support for the instruments, the CP8 will have similar projection characteristics to a PA for the audience.
  6. I've had great performance with my CP8 and it's very comparable to what I get from my Yamaha DXR12. I have mine set to flat but that's because I keep it on a half height pole placed behind me. If you have it placed on the floor as a monitor you should use the monitor DSP voicing selection to eliminate the bass coupling you would naturally get with the speaker on the floor. That could explain the "bassy" tone, but the muffled tone is one of two things, you either have too much in the way of EQ cuts in you preset, or there's something wrong with your CP8. I'm more prone to thinking you've done too much in the way of EQ cuts in your presets. If you're new to this type of configuration that's an easy thing to do because you're trying to get your sound to emulate what you hear from a traditional guitar cabinet. But traditional guitar cabinets will sound different depending on where you're standing relative to it, which is not the case with the CP8. The CP8 will have much more articulation and clarity that will be consistent regardless of where you're standing relative to the speaker just as it would were it being used on a PA system. By doing drastic EQ cuts to sound like a normal guitar cabinet which you would normally hear from off-axis from the center of a guitar speaker you've basically eliminated all of that natural clarity of tone from getting to the CP8.
  7. The generally accepted concept is that if you're going through the amp via an input that uses only the power amp portion of the amp, you would likely not want to use a cab/ir setup in your signal chain on the Helix because you already have a physical cab in place. It has nothing to do with it being a tube amp. In that case the Helix is simply acting as a preamp since you're bypassing the one on the tube amp. It would work the same on any amp.
  8. This was not a huge transition for me since I got into modeling bit by bit over the last 10 years, but I can understand how it can be tough for some people making the big leap all at once. But here are some important touchstone points to bear in mind. First, modeling is all about going from a live stage sound to a live studio sound. If you're familiar with working in a studio using only headsets, you'll understand the difference. If you've attended any large, professional concerts in the last 20 years you've heard it. A lot of people get hung up on the sound of their amp on stage behind them which is not the sound your audience hears if you push your instruments through a PA. They hear the mic'd version of that sound, just like they do in concerts or on recordings. You can use certain approaches such as using a power amp and standard guitar cabinet to retain that live stage sound to some degree with the Helix, but it will entail certain limitations in your use of the Helix that can complicate they way your patches need to be constructed as well as complicates your overall setup. The easiest and most straightforward way of doing things is to embrace the difference rather than fight it as have most professional concert artists whether they use modeling or not. By and large they're all using in ears for monitors and therefore are not hearing their amps, they're hearing their amps through the monitoring system which is the mic'd version of the sound and the same sound the audience is hearing. That doesn't mean you have to have in an ear monitoring system. Basically any stage monitoring system these days produces the same studio or mic'd sound of the amp when you feed the Helix system to the PA console. That doesn't mean you can't have a regular backline for stage sound. For example, I use a Yamaha DXR12 mounted on a half height pole as my backline. In those cases in which the venue is such that we only use the PA for vocals, my setup basically provides a backline that's equivalent to an extension of the PA system for my guitar. So in essence my setup and presets are the same regardless of whether the instruments go through the PA or not. That brings us to the key point of what do you use on stage for your monitoring system? Some people are more comfortable with a flat response cabinet setup such as a powercab, some like myself prefer a PA oriented powered speaker, and others might prefer in-ears and all of those choices come down to personal preferences. What is consistent is that the sound produced by the Helix on stage will be dependent upon your choice so it might not make a whole lot of sense to use the cheapest output device for a premium modeler as that will make a difference. Just some key thoughts to bear in mind....
  9. I play through the same thing at home, at practice and in performance which is a Yamaha DXR12 placed in a backline configuration on a half height pole at roughly chest height. I do have a couple of other options I can use such as a EV ZLX-12 and a QSC CP8 for smaller venues. But I try to be consistent so I can have a consistent sound from the FOH wherever I play.
  10. As an early adopter of the Helix I can say that it's a learning process. Back in the first days we didn't have a lot of practical experience in the user base about how to get what we wanted out our Helix units, but most everyone persevered and found ways to get the behaviors we wanted, and added to the community brain trust. There are a few things I feel obliged to add at this point to the conversation. One is about volume which isn't just one thing. There is the volume you play at which (other than the Fletcher-Munson effect) has little to do with amp model behaviors. It can be affected by any number of things post Helix that relate to the output rig you're using, i.e. FRFR speakers, 4cm, power amp with non powered speakers, etc. The signal chain volume on the other hand is vitally important in getting amps to behave and act predictably as they were modeled in the laboratory...otherwise referred to as gain staging your signal chain. The conventional approach is that your output volume coming from the Helix should stay relatively consistent with that of an empty signal chain. So the output level from the Helix with an amp block engaged, or any other block engaged would not change significantly if that block were turned on or off. I don't follow this process religiously, but I do try and stay within some limits and what happens is you'll find the channel volumes on all the different amps (which don't affect amp tone) stay in a pretty consistent range regardless of which amp you're using. Changes to the master volume on an amp model do have the predictable effect of an overdriven amp you would expect of the amp model and differs from the behavior of the gain on the amp model. This makes sense when you take into account that the Helix itself is NOT an amp, but just a very technically advanced preamp with lots of options. The actual amp comes AFTER the Helix. The other thing has to do with tone. The most realistic and authentic tone in any preset comes from the cabinet and mic selection and placement, just as it does with real amps and cabinets. On a physical amp and cabinet you can get the feel of what this means by listening to that physical amp and cabinet from different locations. If you listen to it directly in front of the cabinet with your ears aligned to the cap (center of the speaker) you will hear a much harsher tone than if you position yourself toward the edge of the speaker. The closer you are the brighter the sound will be, the further away the darker the tone will be. Microphones don't capture the range of response that the human ear does therefore they tend to color the output more. To offset this, studio engineers learn to use multiple different mic's and placements to produce a broader and more natural sound from a speaker cabinet. A common combination is a dynamic mic and a ribbon mic which will give a more natural sound similar to what the human ear perceives. Doing this correctly overcomes the necessity of doing a lot of equalization tricks which, to my ear, doesn't sound nearly as natural. In my last 4 years with the Helix these are the two most important things I've learned as far as allowing me to more quickly and easily develop well over 200 presets that address a wide range of genres and behave predictable both in recording and in live performances.
  11. I have no idea where you might have read this, but I've never experienced anything like that in over 4 years with my Helix. I suspect the user was either hearing things or had some arrangement of blocks in his signal chain that caused it to happen. It's certainly not an artifact of DSP or anything of that sort. The only thing that I know of that does anything like that if is you do some form of split in which the signal is lowered by 3db on both sides of the split to accommodate the gain addition of blocks on each side of the split, but that can be adjusted when the split is re-joined where you can add gain if needed to keep the signal level equal to what it was before the split.
  12. First of all the "device not recognized" message is normal and really has no effect on the functionality. I have yet to have any problems connecting the Helix any of my 3 different computers. The main thing is you need to make sure the HXEdit version is the correct version for the firmware you're running on the Helix. You said you loaded "softwares", but if you're on 2.8 or higher firmware you only need to download one thing which is the matching version of HXEdit, run it, and it will automatically download and install all the other things you need such as drivers and the Line 6 updater for updating firmware. This is all documented in the installation and release notes for 2.8 firmware.
  13. You do realize wattage has very little to do with volume, right? Volume is measured as SPL in the specifications of each device and is the industry standard for volume output and is the spec you should be comparing. Wattage is a marketing term and means very little nowadays. The DBR10 is rated at 129db whereas, by comparison, the DXR10 is rated at 132db. 129db is more than enough to cause permanent ear damage over time, so I still suspect you're somehow kicking in the limiter if it's not hurting your ears at full volume.
  14. The only way I know of predicting how something will sound live is to use live speakers. Studio speakers are good for what they do which is to represent a non-colored sound within a limiteds listening space or room. And that's only if you've positioned yourself and your speakers optimally per the speaker manufacturers directions because they often exploit reflections off of walls. The sound radius of the speaker has a typical sound cone radius that's evenly distributed vertically and horizontally in a forward direction. Live speakers are designed for a very different purpose which is a non colored representation in a large space or outdoors so they're designed for accuracy across a wide horizontal radius and a limited vertical radius in order to more efficiently preserve sound energy for longer forward projection and absolutely no sonic leakage outside of their radius. Because of this design they can sound harsh up close (that's why they don't typically place them right in front of people), but resolve pretty rapidly to their normal sound which will be consistent horizontally. For this reason I dial in and test all my patches through a Yamaha DXR12 positioned about chest height, and listen to the results from maybe 6 or 8 feet away at different positions off axis from the speaker. This has given me a very predictable and consistent sound with what I dial in at home across a wide range of FOH system such as QSC K12.2s, QSC KLA12 line arrays, and even more exotic super high end line arrays in concert settings that are only sold through professional distributors. What you won't be able to predict is how it will sound in context with YOUR band and can only really be adjusted at rehearsal or sound check. But if your band has been together for any length of time you get used to where you normally want to sit in that mix and can predict it pretty well. As far as adjustments as the mixing board, there's really nothing to be done there other than gain stage the signal and them mix it (volume level) appropriately with the vocals and other instruments. If there are any room acoustic conditions that require adjustment determined by an RTA process that's not done on channel by channel basis, that's done across all channels as the room acoustics affect all channels equally. My channel as well as bass, keyboards, and rhythm guitar are pretty much flat. Most specific EQ work tends to be done on acoustic drums and vocals. Here's my setup for dialing in my presets:
  15. Mostly likely you have the volume output on your patches set too high and/.or the volume output on the stomp set too high. Probably the quickest way to check it would be to simply use an empty preset (no blocks) and play through the DBR and see if the problem goes away. You should be able to pretty much adjust your Helix volume as well as the gain on the DBR10 without engaging the limit protection and have plenty of headroom and volume. The generally accepted process for gain staging your presets is to have the same volume level of output whether a block is turned off or turned on.
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