ScottAyers

Attn: Peter (Or someone in charge). It might be wise to lock this thread. I can't see anything else posted here being constructive from this point onward. It's just going to be magnet for people who like to argue. As the person who started this thread. I won't mind at all if you lock it. I'll leave it up to you. Cheers, -ScottA

@silverhead. I have been trying to leave this thread for the past two days. I've said all that I wanted to say. But people kept on asking me questions. Some of which are not about the Helix. And I was enjoying that interaction with the members until Peter came along and felt that he had to defend the Helix and call me (as well others) wrong. Then of course the minions followed right behind him to pile on. Such is the norm for Internet forums. I'm done. I won't post anything more here. Even non Line 6 questions. So please don't ask me anymore questions folks. It was nice talking to you guys. -ScottA

As I said earlier in this thread. I will not respond to trolls. Which Peter clearly is. For anyone that wants know if I'm being truthful or being a troll myself. All you have to do is go to the top of the Helix forum and enter the word "muddy" into the search field. It's currently returning two pages of threads. I'm not interested in hearing the mindless ramblings of users that love the Helix. Yet can't even figure out how to use a simple forum search option. I'm only here to tell Line 6 specifically why I returned it. And ask for them to address them in the next one. If anyone want's to tell me how wrong I am. Don't bother...I will not reply to you. I'm a little surprised that people were behaving themselves for two pages. But it looks like the trolls and the fanboys have finally arrived. To the guys in the past two pages. Thank you for being cool and open minded. And allowing me to say what I didn't like. But I think we've finally hit that inevitable point where it's just people that are trying to "Win The Internet". It had to happen eventually. -ScottA -ScottA

Peter, I'm not making this up. I also did not say anything remotely like legions either...That's a trollish thing to say. All you need to do is read through the other threads on this forum to see that the comment "it's too muddy" has been stated several times. And that's just here in the Line 6 Helix forum alone. This is not just my opinion. Other people have said, and are still saying this. The words actually exist on the on the page that you can see with your own eyes. And the number is growing. Not shrinking. But don't let that spoil your fun. And don't be defensive about it either. You're lucky. You got the sound you wanted. I would never dis people that like the tone of the Helix. Even though I fall into the "It's too muddy" group. I will always advise people to try it for themselves. Because not everyone needs or likes what I like. There's no need for anyone to defend liking the sound of the Helix. But you do need to accept that there are people that don't. And would like to see Line 6 do something about it. -ScottA

That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever read. This person just happens to be a fan of the darker, muddier tones that comes from the Helix. And has no idea that people have tastes that are different from his. Even if I loved the tones from the Helix. I would never say something like that. Because as a grown up mature person, I know that everyone has different tastes. Please don't ever quote this moron again. Or any other fanboys like him. While there's a lot of people happy with the tones. There's also a lot of people like me that are not. And you know what? The number of people speaking up and saying that the Helix sounds too muddy is growing every day...Start counting them people...It's not just me. It's not an EQ problem. And it's not because we don't know how to use it. It is an actual sound characteristic of the unit that actually exists. You either love it...or you don't. But make no mistake. It is there. It does exist. It is an actual thing. All I'm asking for is for Line 6 to try to address this issue in the next version. And try to give the unit more presence and source sound when the reverbs are used. This is what I personally require. I'm only speaking for myself. Even though I know that I'm not the only one that feel this way. If it stays the way it is now. And you guys love it that way. Then great...enjoy it. I'll just have to find something else that caters more to my specific sound needs. But that makes me sad, because I really liked the new UI and the hardware for the most part. -ScottA

Lol, Who the heck would buy an old Quadraverb rack unit or GNX4 pedal? Maybe a museum? :P I'd be lucky if I got 50 bucks for both. -ScottA

I will look into that one jaminjimlp, But I don't have a local dealer here where I can test most of this stuff out. And that's a big problem. My local GC doesn't carry most of this stuff. I also don't want to be the stereotypical guitar player that has a bunch of unused pedals laying around. I still have an old Quadraverb effects unit that I bought a very long time ago (80's?) before I bought the GNX4. When I bought the Quadraverb it was state of the art. Later when I bought the GNX4 it was state of the art. Now the Fractal stuff & the Helix are state of the art. I don't want to be an effects collector like so many people are. :) When I buy something new. I use the hell out of it for a very long time. Squeezing every penny from it that I can. I can't afford to buy something that is just good, or decent, or almost what I wanted. And then get something better in a couple of years. It has to blow me away so much that I'll use the hell out of it for at least a decade. I'm at that decade point with my GNX. So I'm looking around for an upgrade that I will be happy with for the next 10 years. It doesn't help that the Helix is 3x more expensive than my other purchase either. The Helix is close...but close isn't good enough. I need to be blown away. Or else I cannot justify the cost. -ScottA

@zooey. That doesn't sound good at all. @Gawwuf. The one good sound I do get from my GNX4 is based on one of those Supermodel patches. I turn down the gain to play Eric Johnson stuff. And turn up the gain for Satch and Vai stuff. If it wasn't for that one single patch. The unit would only be good as a boat anchor. :) One thing I did not mention before is that the USB<-->Computer on the Helix seemed to be pretty good. Low latency. That's was plus for the Helix. I was happy with that part of it. -ScottA

I'm not going to buy anything at this point. There's currently a nice battle going on now between Fractal & LINE 6. So I'm going to wait it out and see what happens. It's almost guaranteed that LINE 6 will focus more time on the sounds and modelers in the next one. I want to wait and see what they come up with. -ScottA

Lol. Don't say that. The Helix is far better quality than my GNX4 pedal. My GNX4 is definitley not great. It's too bright sounding and out dated. Which is why I'm looking to upgrade. But the Helix as it is right now. Is too far in the other direction for my taste.

Since you guys are talking about the reselling topic. I can share with you that when I bought mine new from GC. The seals (stickers) on the box and the plastic bag that the unit is packaged in. Were both already broken. That did not alarm me too much because I just figured the guys at the store probably tried it out. I wouldn't blame them for that. And the plastic covers for the UI display were still in tact. When I unboxed mine. I left the sticker covers in place just in case I wanted to return it for some reason. That turned out to be a prophetic move on my part. Because I did indeed return it. So I am expecting them to sell it as brand new and at full price to someone else. While that might bother some people. They did give me 45 days to try it at no risk. And that store has to make money too. So my policy is if I buy something there that is pre-opened. As long as it is still in "brand new" condition. I'm OK with that. If they had to reduce the price of every item that was returned. Even if it was used for a very short period of time. It would not be fair to them. And they might not have a generous 45 day testing period. So it's a compromise I'm willing to make with them. They give me a nice long free testing period...And in turn I overlook the pre-opened thing if it happens. As long as whatever I buy is still in brand new condition. -ScottA

With my GNX4 and my VTS's this behavior does not happen anywhere near as much. The guitar does not get pushed into the background so drastically. On the Helix. The guitar source gets pushed back more than I like. And it's next to impossible to bring back in front again with EG or any other settings. It's not an EQ problem. The pedal just isn't hot enough for me. Not enough presence. Not enough crispness. Not enough source sound. Not enough Drive. Or whatever adjective you choose to call it. I would need to use external reverbs and other equipment to overdrive the pedal's sound into something I liked. And that would make no sense. At this point I'm just repeating myself over and over. So I would prefer stop here. Talking about the same things I didn't like over and over with forum members seems more like complaining, than constructive feeback. I've said everything that I want to say about why I returned it. It's up to the company now to use my feeback, or toss it in the garbage bin. It was nice chatting with you guys. I just want to stop saying negative things at this point. Enough is enough. -ScottA

@BigRalphN Yikes!! Well. I do make an effort not to have more than one or two lights on at a time. And use the TV as a light source as much as I can. That helps to keep the electric bill down. Not everyone can do that though. I might be part mole. ;)

Hi jaminjimlp, The problem with the sound in the Helix was definitley not my EQ settings. It's a weakness (or a strength depending on the listener) in the unit itself. I tried every way possible to get the thing to push the sound forward (Eq., compression, Tone settings on individual pedals). But it always sounded too distant for my taste. ColonelForbin posted a video of the Glenn Delaune Satriani patch. Glenn is considered to be an expert at making patches by many. And when I listened to his Satriani patch I can hear the same problem plain as day. It's not in your face. It's not crisp. It's sort of soft and distant sounding. This is proof that it's not me or the settings I used. It's just the way the unit sounds. I don't like the way the Helix delays and the reverbs push the sound away into the background. I like my guitar to be up front, in your face, and crisp sounding. With lots of compression. The Helix has more of a low end, softer, deeper, thicker sound to it than I like. For anyone that doesn't hear what I hear. I can try to give you a way to hear something similar. If you have a Helix. You can do this little experiment. *Note that I'm going from memory here. And I can't remember the exact names. -Create a new patch with nothing in it -Add a distortion pedal from the "dist" option -Now go through each pedal one at while playing. There is one in there that really stands out from the others called: "Valve-Rectifier" or something similar The difference between the rectifier and the other pedals. Is similar to the difference between the Helix and my GNX4. In other words. The rectifier was the ony usable dist pedal for me (that's not good). That's where I would begin my sound. And I'm already above and beyond most of the other effects. Next. This is where the sound change becomes more subtle. Now add a slight amount of reverb to the patch. The sound of the guitar gets slightly push back(not good). I'm guessing that not everyone will hear this. But I do, and it really, really bothered me. My GNX4 is very bright. Too bright. But it's got that in your face sound and high compression sound that I like. That's why mixing them together could have given me the "perfect" sound. But spending that kind of money on a pedal that needs a helping boost from another cheaper pedal made no sense to me. The Helix sound is a good sound. But it's not the kind sound I like. It's too muddy and too distant. If Line 6 can figure out how to make the next version hotter with more presence. Then it might be a keeper for me. If not. It's still a good pedal. Just not the right one for me personally. -ScottA

Really? I live in upsdate NY and I thought we were fairly expensive here compared to most other states. The Helix costs just over $1600.00 when you include the taxes. And my G&E bill runs between $1700 - $1800 per year. And that's for a small house (roughly 1500 sq feet) with a fairly new furnace. I actually thought I was paying a lot for G&E here compared to other states. -ScottA