No sound when booting linked HD500 and DT25H

[mtreehugger]

I normally don't do this, but yesterday I turned on my HD500 before my DT25H had fully gone through all of its startup routine.  (I run the two connected via L6 LINK.)  When I tried to play, I couldn't get and sound out of it.  I noticed that my amp was locked with all four voicing lights lit.  In standby I disconnected the L6 LINK and tried slowly flipping all manner of switches.  At one point I had none of the voicing lights lit, and at another point I saw the amp retardedly responding to my command to change voices.  I slowly turned it off and on a couple times, tried LPM, but nothing would produce any sound other than the sound that normally passes to the speakers when I flip a voice or bias switch.

 

In desperation, I unplugged my DT25H from the wall and played another amp.  This morning I tried it in LPM and it worked!  The volume seemed way too low for the settings.  But then after about 60 seconds of playing the volume abruptly went back up to where I'd have expected it.  I put it in standby, connected my L6 LINK, turned off LPM, and tried it--and it worked normally!

 

So I'm happy it's working, and from now on I'll be VERY careful to not boot both devices at the same time.  However, I'm worried that this problem may still somehow return despite my best efforts.

 

Has anyone else experienced this, and is there any knowledge base or consensus about what the heck is going wrong?

 

THANKS!

 

**** EDIT / ADDITION **** 10/14/16 ****

 

Oh no, it happened again.  This time I was careful to follow my routine, which has been to turn on the DT25 first and wait until it has time to fully load and change the settings to whatever it was last set for.  Then I turned on my HD500 (connected via L6 LINK).  Then I got no sound.  The amp's panel showed no voice selected (lit) and no bias selected.  I shut it down, pulled the plug, went through the same paces and it worked.

 

**** EDIT / ADDITION **** 10/15/16 ****

 

Well, this is an ongoing thing now.  FYI, with power to the HD500 off, the DT should not see it, and the L6 LINK should be invisible as well, correct?  So I first threw the power switch (still in standby) and watched carefully as all switchable lights flickered on then off within a fraction of a second.  And they stayed off.  I threw the power switch back off, unplugged my amp, plugged it back in, tried it again, and this time all switchable lights came on and stayed on.  

 

("all switchable lights" includes all 4 voice lights, both chnl A & B lights, both triode and pentode lights, and both the class A and class AB lights--i.e. every single light that can be in either on or off state when power is applied.)

 

I tried it a 3rd time and it operated normally (I think):  All lights came on, then a few seconds later only 1 light per switch was illuminated.  I turned on my HD500 and played as normal.

 

Following suggestion here, I am going to have my HD500 on when I turn on the DT and when I turn it off and see if this makes a difference.  I will not change any settings on the POD unless the amp is also on.

**** EDIT / ADDITION **** 10/14/16 ****

[Old-Rocker]

I don't know if this applies to L6 link,but normally when switching on Equipment,it's generally Pre-Amp(HD500)first,then Power Amp (DT25)this avoids the DT25 seeing a mains spike.

Switch off is opposite Power then Pre,as i said i don't know if this is the case with L6 link,but this is the procedure i would follow.

[Brazzy]

I normally don't do this, but yesterday I turned on my HD500 before my DT25H had fully gone through all of its startup routine.  (I run the two connected via L6 LINK.)  When I tried to play, I couldn't get and sound out of it.  I noticed that my amp was locked with all four voicing lights lit.  In standby I disconnected the L6 LINK and tried slowly flipping all manner of switches.  At one point I had none of the voicing lights lit, and at another point I saw the amp retardedly responding to my command to change voices.  I slowly turned it off and on a couple times, tried LPM, but nothing would produce any sound other than the sound that normally passes to the speakers when I flip a voice or bias switch.

 

In desperation, I unplugged my DT25H from the wall and played another amp.  This morning I tried it in LPM and it worked!  The volume seemed way too low for the settings.  But then after about 60 seconds of playing the volume abruptly went back up to where I'd have expected it.  I put it in standby, connected my L6 LINK, turned off LPM, and tried it--and it worked normally!

 

So I'm happy it's working, and from now on I'll be VERY careful to not boot both devices at the same time.  However, I'm worried that this problem may still somehow return despite my best efforts.

 

Has anyone else experienced this, and is there any knowledge base or consensus about what the heck is going wrong?

 

THANKS!

 

I haven't experienced this one but some weird stuff can happen in the digital realm. Glad it's working for ya now. Sarcastically speaking, "don't do that again", lol.

 

Keep on Rockin'

[mtreehugger]

I don't know if this applies to L6 link,but normally when switching on Equipment,it's generally Pre-Amp(HD500)first,then Power Amp (DT25)this avoids the DT25 seeing a mains spike.

Switch off is opposite Power then Pre,as i said i don't know if this is the case with L6 link,but this is the procedure i would follow.

If I do as you suggest, I'd be avoiding a "mains spike," but I'd be forcing the DT to look at the L6 LINK sooner rather than later.  Not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

 

Please note that I modified my original post because the problem appears to be ongoing at this point.

 

Thanks!

[Old-Rocker]

Hi,i did say i knew zilch about the L6 link,but it's always worth turning on the first unit,then leave a few seconds before turning on the next unit,there are random voltages in the circuits that need to stabalize,as well as avoiding mains spikes/rush,might be worth a try.

[Brazzy]

**** EDIT / ADDITION **** 10/14/16 ****

 

Oh no, it happened again.  This time I was careful to follow my routine, which has been to turn on the DT25 first and wait until it has time to fully load and change the settings to whatever it was last set for.  Then I turned on my HD500 (connected via L6 LINK).  Then I got no sound.  The amp's panel showed no voice selected (lit) and no bias selected.  I shut it down, pulled the plug, went through the same paces and it worked.

 

It happened again? I'm not sure but did Line 6 ever recommend a certain startup procedure when hooked up via L6 Link?

[marco3253]

My procedure with L6 link is to turn on the amp, let it warm in standby mode.

turn on the pod, select a patch that work with Pre only as amp simulator.

link them together via L6 link, verifying that output mode auto switched to Combo power amp.

 

at that point i turn off the standby mode and put it on the ON to play.

 

is it right?

[Brazzy]

My procedure with L6 link is to turn on the amp, let it warm in standby mode.

turn on the pod, select a patch that work with Pre only as amp simulator.

link them together via L6 link, verifying that output mode auto switched to Combo power amp.

 

at that point i turn off the standby mode and put it on the ON to play.

 

is it right?

 

I suppose if you've done that over and over again for a long time and it still works it's a good way. May I ask what your shutdown process is?

[Brazzy]

I was brushing up on what the manual has to say at around 3-1 and 3-2.

 

What I'm gathering is that you power up the HD500. Then make your patch. Then go into L6 settings and set that correctly depending on your set up. Then set the midi channel. After that plug in the L6 link to the DT. Then turn on the DT, let it warm up and set you master volume, etc.

 

I would say to power down. I usually turn the DT's master volume all the way down then switch to standby. Wait 30 seconds then flick the power switch off. Then the HD500 can be powered down.

 

I know there is controversy about putting the amp in standby before powering off. I think some people just turn the amp off but I don't think Line 6 recommends that. Oppppps, after reading the quick start guide for the DT it says it's not necessary to put the amp in standby when powering off. Now that I think about it I remember someone on the forums saying many just flick both switches at the same time to power down.

 

 

 

http://line6.com/data/6/0a06434d107f14f7b82d58d962/application/pdf/L6%20LINK%20Connectivity%20Guide%20for%20POD%20HD%20&%20DT%20Amplifiers%20v2.00%20-%20English%20(%20Rev%20E%20).pdf

Edited November 15, 2016 by Brazzy

[Old-Rocker]

Ok,i'll say once more i don't know anything about using the L6 Link,but,i still believe from all my past experience the correct procedure for connecting 2 pieces of electronics with any kind of interconnect cable is.

a:Plug in interconnect cable between the 2 units(AES).

b:Power on Unit 1,in this case the HD500.

c:(leave a few seconds to stabalise)Power on Unit 2,in this case the DT.

The reason to have the cable already connected before powering up,is to avoid a possible hot connection(between both units),before a ground is established,never a good idea especially if the cable is carrying a Digital signal.

[mtreehugger]

Well, this is an ongoing thing now.  FYI, with power to the HD500 off, the DT should not see it, and the L6 LINK should be invisible as well, correct?  So I first threw the power switch (still in standby) and watched carefully as all switchable lights flickered on then off within a fraction of a second.  And they stayed off.  I threw the power switch back off, unplugged my amp, plugged it back in, tried it again, and this time all switchable lights came on and stayed on.  

 

("all switchable lights" includes all 4 voice lights, both chnl A & B lights, both triode and pentode lights, and both the class A and class AB lights--i.e. every single light that can be in either on or off state when power is applied.)

 

I tried it a 3rd time and it operated normally (I think):  All lights came on, then a few seconds later only 1 light per switch was illuminated.  I turned on my HD500 and played as normal.

 

Following suggestion here, I am going to have my HD500 on when I turn on the DT and when I turn it off and see if this makes a difference.  I will not change any settings on the POD unless the amp is also on.

[marco3253]

I suppose if you've done that over and over again for a long time and it still works it's a good way. May I ask what your shutdown process is?

 

not over and over, i just own the DT, like 2 weeks ago.

 

anyway to turn off i put the tuner on the pod (mute mode) put standby on on the dt, then remove the link and then power off the pod and then power off the dt.

 

I read here that it is better to link them together then turn on the pod and then the DT, the reason i do my way is because the first thing that i put on is the DT to make it warm, then i proceed to mount the rest (i have a small house so i need to put everything back in the bag every time).

 

But if is NECESSARY to do that procedure (link -> pod -> dt) i will do that way.

[Old-Rocker]

Mrtreehugger,i apolagise if i seem to be going on,but the threads been expanded a bit since my first comment,my only excuse is old age.

 

Marco.I'm not saying it is necessary to do the procedure in the way i have described,i am just saying that in normal Audio Equipment practice the procedure is as i describe,there shouldn't be any black magic or standing on one leg while leaning at an angle of 25*,with the moon in a certain phase :D .

It certainly won't do any harm to try this procedure & if it works yippee!,but if not well i'm just plain wrong :( ,it won't be the first time & it won't be the last.

According to my wife i'm wrong just about every time i open my mouth to speak.

[Brazzy]

Well, this is an ongoing thing now.  FYI, with power to the HD500 off, the DT should not see it, and the L6 LINK should be invisible as well, correct?  So I first threw the power switch (still in standby) and watched carefully as all switchable lights flickered on then off within a fraction of a second.  And they stayed off.  I threw the power switch back off, unplugged my amp, plugged it back in, tried it again, and this time all switchable lights came on and stayed on.  

 

("all switchable lights" includes all 4 voice lights, both chnl A & B lights, both triode and pentode lights, and both the class A and class AB lights--i.e. every single light that can be in either on or off state when power is applied.)

 

I tried it a 3rd time and it operated normally (I think):  All lights came on, then a few seconds later only 1 light per switch was illuminated.  I turned on my HD500 and played as normal.

 

Following suggestion here, I am going to have my HD500 on when I turn on the DT and when I turn it off and see if this makes a difference.  I will not change any settings on the POD unless the amp is also on.

 

That's sounds strange. Have you tried to reset the DT and then try what the manual describes? I got to try mine out again soon. Lately I always just use the amp by itself.

[mtreehugger]

That's sounds strange. Have you tried to reset the DT and then try what the manual describes? I got to try mine out again soon. Lately I always just use the amp by itself.

 

Hey Brazzy!

 

A factory reset?  I hate that on accounta I hate ta hafta read up on how to hook up MIDI all over again (to subsequently reinstall the latest firmware update).  However, your suggestion is most excellent!!!  Thanks!!!

[Old-Rocker]

Hey,Treehugger,can't you do the Factory Reset manually?or is that something different to the manual reset?

[Brazzy]

Hey Brazzy!

 

A factory reset?  I hate that on accounta I hate ta hafta read up on how to hook up MIDI all over again (to subsequently reinstall the latest firmware update).  However, your suggestion is most excellent!!!  Thanks!!!

 

Hey man, I was referring to reset where you hold the 2 switches together while powering up. You know the simple one. Not the complicated one. :)

 

See my attachment. I really don't know if it will help.

[mtreehugger]

Hey man, I was referring to reset where you hold the 2 switches together while powering up. You know the simple one. Not the complicated one. :)

 

See my attachment. I really don't know if it will help.

 

Thanks for the handy clip!  Yes, this is the factory reset.  I could be wrong, but I believe doing this will wipe away the firmware update, leaving me to later re-install it via MIDI and Monkey.

[mtreehugger]

Thanks to all of you!  You all have had helpful ideas that I'm still processing.

[Brazzy]

Thanks for the handy clip!  Yes, this is the factory reset.  I could be wrong, but I believe doing this will wipe away the firmware update, leaving me to later re-install it via MIDI and Monkey.

 

I'm pretty sure I've done this before and all it did was reset the programmed amps back to the way it was from the factory. So all the controls would work they way they did from the store. I don't think it reinstalls the original firmware. Don't take my word on that though as it's been a while. This is going to make me drag that amp out and hook up via midi & DT Edit again, lol.

[mtreehugger]

I'm pretty sure I've done this before and all it did was reset the programmed amps back to the way it was from the factory. So all the controls would work they way they did from the store. I don't think it reinstalls the original firmware. Don't take my word on that though as it's been a while. This is going to make me drag that amp out and hook up via midi & DT Edit again, lol.

 

I thought you were using DT Edit.  You just set up your 2 channels and put it away, then?  I still haven't played with it.  I think I downloaded it but for some reason never completed the mission.  I like my POD, I guess that's why.

[Brazzy]

I thought you were using DT Edit.  You just set up your 2 channels and put it away, then?  I still haven't played with it.  I think I downloaded it but for some reason never completed the mission.  I like my POD, I guess that's why.

 

Yeah, used DT Edit a while ago to program some amps in it and played around with it for a while like that and then I wanted the original set and did the reset but keep in mind this was back around when I was sending my DT to Line 6 'cause if issues with the transformer, etc. Sometimes I even get lost with what I do unless I write it in my notebook, lol.

 

I like my HD500 too and now that I've got experience with it I'll likely never sell it. Same with the DT50.

[mtreehugger]

Tried again last night with the POD on first.  When I flipped power to the amp, all switchable lights flickered on/off.  And they stayed off for what seemed like forever.  Then they all came on, and this lasted about as long (20 seconds I'd say).  Then, with a bit of a flicker, I had only 1 light per switch (which is correct).  I flipped standby and it worked normally.

 

While I find this to be scary slow, it could be that perhaps the total time to get operational might be the same.  Before, I'd start my amp first, wait for it to initialize everything and find its operational state, then I'd turn on my POD and wait some more while the POD booted and then communicated with my amp.  I've always believed that even if none of those switchable parameters were actually going to change due to my HD500, it would still take the same amount of time as if they were changing due to handshaking protocols or whatever.

 

Still thinking about doing a factory reset, though.  I think I'll try it one more time as is, and if I still seems unstable, I'll restore the factory settings and see if that helps.

[Brazzy]

Tried again last night with the POD on first. When I flipped power to the amp, all switchable lights flickered on/off. And they stayed off for what seemed like forever. Then they all came on, and this lasted about as long (20 seconds I'd say). Then, with a bit of a flicker, I had only 1 light per switch (which is correct). I flipped standby and it worked normally.

 

While I find this to be scary slow, it could be that perhaps the total time to get operational might be the same. Before, I'd start my amp first, wait for it to initialize everything and find its operational state, then I'd turn on my POD and wait some more while the POD booted and then communicated with my amp. I've always believed that even if none of those switchable parameters were actually going to change due to my HD500, it would still take the same amount of time as if they were changing due to handshaking protocols or whatever.

 

Still thinking about doing a factory reset, though. I think I'll try it one more time as is, and if I still seems unstable, I'll restore the factory settings and see if that helps.

Thanks for your observations. I understand what you mean about the sync time being about the same. If it ain't broke don't worry about it. Time will tell if it's going to be ok.

[Old-Rocker]

mtreehugger.just for information & my own curiosity i have downloaded & read(quite a few times)the Pod HD/DT25 L6 Link document,i have to say i find the instructions "vague",but i'm pretty sure it says.

Set up The Pod (go through the various screens) for L6 Link,then wirh XLR/AES cable already connected switch on the DT25 & it should see the Pod & set itself up ready for use.

I think what you're describing is pretty much the same procedure,but maybe the Pod should be fully ready before the DT 25,is switched on?

As i say i had to read it several times i find it a bit vague.

I really don't understand why they even mention an XLR cable,it should definitely be an AES cable,because(once again if i'm reading it correctly)the link cable also carries the Guitar signal,which is converted by the Pod to Digital,so the cable is carrying a Digital signal(please correct me if i'm wrong on this)because if this is the case the cable has to be AES to maintain the correct ohms for digital transmission.

If i'm correct with the above i don't get Line 6 mentioning an XLR cable at all & this should be the basis for a whole new thread(it probably has been).

Sorry for going on again,too much time on my hands,in my old age. :D

[marco3253]

in fact i have an AES cable and never tried with a traditional xlr.

What's the problem to spend 20$ for a cable for this kind of delicate 1000$ configuration?

[Brazzy]

in fact i have an AES cable and never tried with a traditional xlr.

What's the problem to spend 20$ for a cable for this kind of delicate 1000$ configuration?

You make a good point Marco. When I hear the word "digital" the word "delicate" definitely comes to mind.

[Old-Rocker]

Yes of course Marco,why do Line 6 even mention an XLR?,maybe a bit sensitive about stipulating AES,in case it sounds like you need a bespoke cable?which you do.

[mtreehugger]

mtreehugger.just for information & my own curiosity i have downloaded & read(quite a few times)the Pod HD/DT25 L6 Link document,i have to say i find the instructions "vague",but i'm pretty sure it says.

Set up The Pod (go through the various screens) for L6 Link,then wirh XLR/AES cable already connected switch on the DT25 & it should see the Pod & set itself up ready for use.

I think what you're describing is pretty much the same procedure,but maybe the Pod should be fully ready before the DT 25,is switched on?

As i say i had to read it several times i find it a bit vague.

I really don't understand why they even mention an XLR cable,it should definitely be an AES cable,because(once again if i'm reading it correctly)the link cable also carries the Guitar signal,which is converted by the Pod to Digital,so the cable is carrying a Digital signal(please correct me if i'm wrong on this)because if this is the case the cable has to be AES to maintain the correct ohms for digital transmission.

If i'm correct with the above i don't get Line 6 mentioning an XLR cable at all & this should be the basis for a whole new thread(it probably has been).

Sorry for going on again,too much time on my hands,in my old age. :D

 

Old-Rocker, you've kinda been saying the same thing all along.  Originally you were talking about transient voltage spikes or whatever, and here you're paraphrasing the L6 documentation, I believe.  There's definitely something to it, because 4 times in a row I've had HD500 on first and last, and I haven't had to pull the plug.  The first time was scary slow (see above), but the next 3 times have been "normal" from what I can tell.  I'm still wondering about that factory reset, as I think my amp got "confused," it's just that I hate to re-learn stuff I've forgotten and I'm 90% sure a factory reset will wipe my firmware update (and the other 10% says I should re-flash it anyway just on general principle, but I digress).

 

As for the XLR cable, that is suitable if you have a shorter one, but the longer it is the more unreliable it becomes.  A few years ago the general consensus was that an XLR cable under 10 feet in length would work fine in just about any environment.  I use an AES cable, it didn't cost much.

[mtreehugger]

I really wish someone from Line 6 would weigh in on this and explain what happened to my amp and why.  I guess that's too much to ask for with an older product.  :wacko:

[Old-Rocker]

Het,mrtreehugger.I can't tell from 

 

Old-Rocker, you've kinda been saying the same thing all along.  Originally you were talking about transient voltage spikes or whatever, and here you're paraphrasing the L6 documentation, I believe.  There's definitely something to it, because 4 times in a row I've had HD500 on first and last, and I haven't had to pull the plug.  The first time was scary slow (see above), but the next 3 times have been "normal" from what I can tell.  I'm still wondering about that factory reset, as I think my amp got "confused," it's just that I hate to re-learn stuff I've forgotten and I'm 90% sure a factory reset will wipe my firmware update (and the other 10% says I should re-flash it anyway just on general principle, but I digress).

 

As for the XLR cable, that is suitable if you have a shorter one, but the longer it is the more unreliable it becomes.  A few years ago the general consensus was that an XLR cable under 10 feet in length would work fine in just about any environment.  I use an AES cable, it didn't cost much.

Hey,mrtreehugger.I can't tell if you think i'm interfering &/or being a pain in the a**e,or if you think i'm helping :)

If you think i'm not helping just say the word & i'll stop posting in the thread,but 'till then :D

I believe given the signals being carried,that using an XLR cable is incorrect & is just a way of sort of getting it going,but that an AES 110 Ohm cable is the correct cable,an XLR will corrupt a Digital,at best.

I too wish Line 6 would chip in on this.

Just be assured my only intention of being active on the Forum is to help(if i can).

Cheers.

[mtreehugger]

Het,mrtreehugger.I can't tell from 

 

Hey,mrtreehugger.I can't tell if you think i'm interfering &/or being a pain in the a**e,or if you think i'm helping :)

If you think i'm not helping just say the word & i'll stop posting in the thread,but 'till then :D

I believe given the signals being carried,that using an XLR cable is incorrect & is just a way of sort of getting it going,but that an AES 110 Ohm cable is the correct cable,an XLR will corrupt a Digital,at best.

I too wish Line 6 would chip in on this.

Just be assured my only intention of being active on the Forum is to help(if i can).

Cheers.

 

Old-Rocker, I'm sorry!  You are being helpful, definitely not a pain!  I was trying to give you credit for being the first with the idea that the POD should be turned on first (formerly, I always turned my amp on first), but in hindsight I can see how my writing wasn't very clear.    :wacko:

[marco3253]

turn the amp on first, but in standby (no sound no problem) then pod, then link together, they will see each other, after the amp is warm enough you can turn the standby off and play.

[Old-Rocker]

Marco.as mrtreehugger states,i've posted this ad nauseam.

If that works for you,well & good,but the correct procedure is,as i've posted earlier,have you downloaded the L6 link connectivity document?

It does confirm the procedure is as posted above. :)

In fact i have to credit this to Brazzy,when i posted about the document earlier,i hadn't realised he had already posted the relevant sections in the document.

[Old-Rocker]

Old-Rocker, I'm sorry!  You are being helpful, definitely not a pain!  I was trying to give you credit for being the first with the idea that the POD should be turned on first (formerly, I always turned my amp on first), but in hindsight I can see how my writing wasn't very clear.    :wacko:

Really no problem,i know i'm a pain when i start ("going on"),as my wife call it,so i just always assume everyone else thinks so as well,but if i am being helpful i'll show her your comment,she won't believe it otherwise :D .

[Brazzy]

It's all good. I'm always learning and since most of the time I just use the amp all by itself I need to refresh myself of how to hook up different arrangements. This why I always frequent the forum. I browse for related topics about the amp and pod and see if I can learn or help in some way.

 

I remember the first time I hooked up HD500 via L6 to the DT and I had some trouble getting the tone I wanted so then I just plugged the HD500's L 1/4" analog out into the DT50's FX Return tried the two AMP/LINE switch positions and BAMM! I had way better tone and tried the different output modes for the both but I ended up using Studio Direct into the FX Return. I used that for a while but then I started having amp troubles so in between that I used DT Edit and setup some amp within the DT and used them just plugging the guitar into the preamp of the DT. I tried a few other ways, 4CM and 3 other ways but I always went back into the front and in the end and last thing I did was reset the DT back to factory amp settings and just plug into the front with the guitar.

 

Now I'm getting the urge to try L6 link again, lol, but if I have trouble with setting it up fast I'll probably just plug the HD500's 1/4" analog out into the amps FX Return so I can play for a little while. :D

[mtreehugger]

Update:

 

There was one time where I forgot my new procedure and turned on the amp first.  However, after letting it boot and then starting my HD500 (connected via L6 LINK), it acted the same as always.

 

I SURE WISH SOMEONE FROM LINE 6 COULD WEIGH IN ON THIS THREAD AND EXPLAIN THE ISSUE I EXPERIENCED AS A RESULT OF STARTING MY HD500 (LINKED) BEFORE MY DT-25 WAS FULLY BOOTED.

 

I had this happen over a year ago as well, and I know I'm not the only one who has experienced this.  

[mtreehugger]

Hmmmmm, it seems nobody with any type of connection to the Line 6 organization visits this forum anymore.  That's a drag!