4 Cable Method Preamp Volume

[jonandtice]

Proud new Helix LT owner here.

 

I am using the Helix in 4CM with my Quilter 101 mini amp head into a homemade speaker cabinet with a Celestion Seventy 80 speaker.  I have the volume knob on the Helix all the way up.  It works great with all the non-4CM factory presets (no FX loop = 1/4" -> Quilter effects return.  It also works great in 4CM using the preamp on the Quilter (using the 4CM factory template).

 

The problem happens when I bypass the FX Loop (the Quilter preamp) and the Helix preamp is activated.  None of the Helix preamps have enough volume to even come close.  Replacing the preamp block with an amp block brings the volume up closer to everything else.  Is this supposed to happen?  Are the preamp models supposed to be so quiet compared to the amp models?  Is the solution to not use the preamp models?

[dragonfet]

Could you attach your preset to a post? I would suspect there's a level problem hidden somewhere.

[jonandtice]

The preset I'm using is the 4CM template that was on the Helix by default.  I didn't modify it at all.  The only thing I've done is set the Helix volume knob to control XLR only.

[dragonfet]

I just had a look at the template, obviously I didn't see anything wrong with it. Are you playing clean or HighGain?

In any case, one option would be to reduce the return level of the insert block to even the volumes out. Also make sure that the "Channel Volume" parameter on the preamp block is set to 10.

[jonandtice]

I have moderate gain on the external preamp.  I put like -6dB or on the return block to get the volume even with the other (factory) presets.  The issue I think is the modeled preamp just sucks all the volume out of the signal chain.  For now I'm using an amp block instead of the preamp block and it works the way I want it to.  The Quilter 101 has a solid state (class D) power amp so I probably want to use an amp block anyways.  I do have a Vox AC30 that I will want to use occasionally though so I might want just the modeled preamp for that.

 

To simplify, using a blank preset, if I do:

Guitar in -> preamp block -> 1/4" left out -> Quilter effects return

I get no volume.  If I do:

Guitar in -> amp block -> 1/4" left out -> Quilter effects return

I get the expected volume level.

 

Is the the expected behaviour of the preamp block?

[jbuhajla]

I have moderate gain on the external preamp.  I put like -6dB or on the return block to get the volume even with the other (factory) presets.  The issue I think is the modeled preamp just sucks all the volume out of the signal chain.  For now I'm using an amp block instead of the preamp block and it works the way I want it to.  The Quilter 101 has a solid state (class D) power amp so I probably want to use an amp block anyways.  I do have a Vox AC30 that I will want to use occasionally though so I might want just the modeled preamp for that.

 

To simplify, using a blank preset, if I do:

Guitar in -> preamp block -> 1/4" left out -> Quilter effects return

I get no volume.  If I do:

Guitar in -> amp block -> 1/4" left out -> Quilter effects return

I get the expected volume level.

 

Is the the expected behaviour of the preamp block?

Do you have your 1/4" out set for instrument or line level in global settings? 

[jonandtice]

Do you have your 1/4" out set for instrument or line level in global settings? 

It is set to instrument level (that is what the effects return expects to see?).