Routing Questions (please help!)

[Omii]

Hi there. I have a few questions about Helix in both software and hardware form. I called the customer service line and the helpful tech was unable to answer a couple of my questions. Here is what I would like to do...I would like to know if it's possible:

I love the flexibility and routing ease of VSTs when it comes to effects. I have 8 instruments going into an 8 channel mixer, and each instrument going direct out from the mixer to my 8 channel interface, going into Ableton 10. Normally, I use VST effects for each track and I'm able to monitor the effects in real time; I would like to use the Helix to do the same for each track (8). I downloaded the free version and I'm able to open individual instances of Helix for each track, but 3 instances open was sucking 50% of my CPU, so that's not an option. So, my questions: 

1. Are you able to use 1 instance of Helix SOFTWARE to assign each effect pedal within your chain to individual tracks in my DAW? Example: I open Helix in it's own track, within the pedal chain I have 1 delay, 1 chorus, and 1 reverb; Am I able to route the delay to the hi hats, the chorus to my guitar, and the reverb to my snare?

2. Are you able to do something like this with the HARDWARE?

3. From what I understand, the hardware has 4 sends and returns, if I were ok with just tweaking 4 tracks at a time, would this mean that I'm able to route just 1 effect per send to 4 separate channels, or does this mean that I could route multiple effects to 4 separate channels? 

Thanks in advanced. 



 

[rd2rk]

Not sure exactly what you're trying to do, but I'll have a go!

 

FIRST - terminology. If you're putting a signal into an interface to a DAW, processing it with effects, then sending back out to speakers, you are NOT monitoring in REAL time. All sorts of latency involved there - DAC IN, DAW, VST, DAC OUT.

 

You could do something like this:

 

 

 

Each path has it's own input (Returns 1-4), It's own HW send (to your multi track interface - that gets you four processed inputs from the Helix Hardware and four more direct from your interface), and each path's output can be sent to XLR, 1/4" or Digital for REAL TIME monitoring. Of course, if your interface allows you to attach ADAT expansion devices, the sky's the limit on ins and outs.

 

AND/OR, if you have a MAC and can set up a composite ASIO device (I think that's what it's called when you use two ASIO devices on a MAC) you could assign Paths 1&2 to USB 3/4 and Paths 3&4 to USB 5/6, then set up tracks in your DAW like this:

 

 

That MIGHT cut down on Latency (one less DAC), but I think I read somewhere that the composite device setup adds latency itself. I could be wrong, not a MAC kid myself.

 

I haven't actually tested that last bit, it might not be possible to separate USB 3/4-USB 5/6, but I THINK it'll work. If you try it, let me know.

You can then set your DAW's latency compensation, further process the signals with VSTs (Helix Native is, resource wise, probably overkill. T

here are many less resource hungry VST effects out there), and mix it all with your hardware Ins/Outs and send it to your speakers.

 

I have no use for this kind of setup, but it sounds like CRAZY FUN!

Let me know how it works out and what you discover along the way!

 

I attached a copy of the pictured preset. You can use the Template "4 tone Switcher" if you want to start from scratch.

 

Afterthought - you may want to look into Cantabile. It's a VST host that's made for this kind of craziness. Unless you have a MAC, I don't think he's finished his MAC port yet, but I haven't been keeping up, my needs are so pedestrian these days......

 

 

4in 4out.hlx

[Omii]

4 hours ago, rd2rk said:

Not sure exactly what you're trying to do, but I'll have a go!

 

FIRST - terminology. If you're putting a signal into an interface to a DAW, processing it with effects, then sending back out to speakers, you are NOT monitoring in REAL time. All sorts of latency involved there - DAC IN, DAW, VST, DAC OUT.

 

You could do something like this:

 

 

Each path has it's own input (Returns 1-4), It's own HW send (to your multi track interface - that gets you four processed inputs from the Helix Hardware and four more direct from your interface), and each path's output can be sent to XLR, 1/4" or Digital for REAL TIME monitoring. Of course, if your interface allows you to attach ADAT expansion devices, the sky's the limit on ins and outs.

 

AND/OR, if you have a MAC and can set up a composite ASIO device (I think that's what it's called when you use two ASIO devices on a MAC) you could assign Paths 1&2 to USB 3/4 and Paths 3&4 to USB 5/6, then set up tracks in your DAW like this:

 

That MIGHT cut down on Latency (one less DAC), but I think I read somewhere that the composite device setup adds latency itself. I could be wrong, not a MAC kid myself.

 

I haven't actually tested that last bit, it might not be possible to separate USB 3/4-USB 5/6, but I THINK it'll work. If you try it, let me know.

You can then set your DAW's latency compensation, further process the signals with VSTs (Helix Native is, resource wise, probably overkill. T

here are many less resource hungry VST effects out there), and mix it all with your hardware Ins/Outs and send it to your speakers.

 

I have no use for this kind of setup, but it sounds like CRAZY FUN!

Let me know how it works out and what you discover along the way!

 

I attached a copy of the pictured preset. You can use the Template "4 tone Switcher" if you want to start from scratch.

 

Afterthought - you may want to look into Cantabile. It's a VST host that's made for this kind of craziness. Unless you have a MAC, I don't think he's finished his MAC port yet, but I haven't been keeping up, my needs are so pedestrian these days......

 

 

4in 4out.hlx

Thank you so much for the incredibly thoughtful response. I appreciate it so much. As you can tell, I'm a bit rough on my terminology. I thought that "real time" referred to being able to tweak parameters on the fly...seems that I was way off. I actually record using fx plugins in Ableton while playing instruments routed to the mixer > DAW > and then to Ableton...so I assumed that was real time. Thanks for the correction. So knowing this, I guess I DO NOT need to record in actual real time as I do not have latency issues. Does this change your explanation at all?

So, this is what I'm trying to do: I've been a guitarist for quite a few years and decided to start recording electronic music using guitars, along with drum machines and synths. I got used to using pedalboards and guitar effects, so my workflow is infinitely faster with guitar equipment. I currently need amp modeling for my guitar, AND I need effects for my synths...ones that I can control with knobs, and that don't suck my CPU. So basically, I'd like to use the Helix for playing guitar, and as a multi-fx processor that I can use to control the effects for multiple tracks. 

Also, I have a Scarlett Clarett 8Pre thunderbolt going into my mac just for reference, so I'm sure I can use the outs to create more routing options. Now, from the first picture you posted, it seems like I can use up to 4 returns/ through usb, is this correct? So, theoretically, I'd be able to use the Helix's effects on 4 up to separate tracks? Thanks again, and I hope you bear with me haha. 

[rd2rk]

On 7/26/2019 at 10:44 PM, Omii said:

So knowing this, I guess I DO NOT need to record in actual real time as I do not have latency issues. Does this change your explanation at all?

 

Latency rears it's ugly head when you're trying to send an analog signal into a DAW, process it with VSTs (like Native), and listen back to it as you play. There's a delay between when you pluck a note and when you hear it through your speakers. If you use one of the four paths in the preset I sent for guitar, then use a hardware IN/OUT on the C8Pre mixer to send that path directly to your speakers (as well as using the Helix SEND to send it to Ableton), and turn OFF the track monitor button on that Ableton track, then you'll be monitoring your guitar in REAL time, while you can still play along to the pre-recorded (or live MIDI) tracks from Ableton by leaving the track monitor buttons for those tracks ON. The latency compensation feature in Ableton takes care of any differences that arise in that scenario (RTM!)

 

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Your Clarett 8Pre is virtually identical to my Scarlett 18i20, just Thunderbolt to a MAC vs USB to a PC.

 

So, you're putting your guitar and other instruments into your C8Pre, using it as your Soundcard/interface to the MAC, with Ableton Live as your DAW.

 

I'm going to explain this the way I would do it. I don't have a MAC, so I don't know from aggregate (what I called composite) devices. You might be able to get additional inputs that way by using the USB Outs from the Helix to free up inputs on the C8Pre but, again, you're on Thunderbolt/MAC and I'm not sure how all that would work.

 

Take the sends from the Helix into four of the C8Pre's inputs. The DAW screenshot I sent you was Reaper, but here's what Ableton might look like - I have the Lite version, so I'm limited to 8in/8out:

 

 

 

That'll leave you 4 Inputs on the C8Pre for other analog instruments. Assuming you have a full featured version of Ableton, you can also add MIDI instruments. Don't know how you're triggering clips, I use an AKAI APCmini - about $100, is recognized automatically in Ableton, and has sliders to control the Ableton Channel sliders. Cool little unit to get your feet wet with that kind of HW/Interface.

 

Obviously, the Ableton Outputs can be set to send to whatever outs on your C8Pre that you want to use.

I usually use Reaper because it's easier (for me) to use for basic recording purposes, and with the Lite version of Ableton I'm limited in the # of tracks/sends/busses I can use. However, Ableton is MADE for EDM, and Reaper just doesn't handle clips the way Ableton does. Horses for courses.

 

I sleep now.