Move to Helix Rack

[bluedot]

Howdy

 

For a few years (since it came out) I've been using Helix Native in the box. Sounds amazing, but there's a latency issue when tracking songs with large track counts, even though I'm using a MacPro, Apogee and Live 10 Suite. I can only use a 64bit buffer if I'm down to say, 3 tracks.

 

Since we started using a bunch of analog synths, we picked up an SSL SiX, and are running things into it analog before going to DAW. To try to be analog again, I've been using a Mesa Boogie Rectifier Preamp, and damn it if I can't get rid of the fizz in the high gain.  I have tried most everything, including putting a UA LA-610 Preamp in front of it, and its still not as smooth as Helix Native. (My favorite patch is the Dirty Placater) The boogie also sounds inconsistent. I swear every time I turn it on, it needs 15 minutes of tweaking.

 

So I am thinking about going Helix Rack outboard - and also use the effects on our synths instead of my Lexicon MPX-1.  Have any of you used the effects like this? Can I run a clean signal into my DAW to reamp with Helix Native? Can I mess with my patches on my computer and copy them to the Rack unit so I'm not dinking with the knobs on it?

 

And lastly, can I count on no latency out of the Helix Rack?

 

Thanks for your input

[rd2rk]

If you're using the Apogee as AI, you're dealing with the latency of that unit. You didn't mention which Apogee you're using, so I don't know how many Inputs you have available.

If you're using the Helix (any model) as AI, you'd probably get lower latency from the Apogee. Hardware routing is also more difficult with Helix, vs an Apogee with lots of I/O.

You'd have to try both and compare. I use a Scarlett 18i20. Better latency than the Helix and LOTS of I/O.

 

If you're using the Helix as AI, then USB 7/8 will send a clean signal to your DAW. If you're using the Apogee you'll need to split the signal before the Helix, or dedicate a Helix path (a whole processor!) to the clean signal, and pan the paths hard R/L, sending them to separate tracks through the Apogee.

 

EDIT: You could also take a separate sub-path just after the Input block and send the signal to one of the Helix FX Sends. Stil a waste of resources though, and needs to be configured in each preset, can't be done Globally.

 

FURTHER EDIT: I've heard there's a way with MAC to use multiple ASIO devices. I'v also heard it's Iffy. If you can get it to work, that could allow you to use USB 7/8 for the clean signal. Maybe a MAC person will chime in on this.

 

Of course, the Helix can be used purely as an FX processor for your synths, again using separate paths for synths and guitar (for live use), but unless you really don't like the Lexicon, or need something that Helix has but the Lexicon lacks, I'd stick with the Lex.

 

Latency with large track counts is ALL about your computer's processing power. Just because you've got a Mac Pro doesn't mean you've got enough power. The rule here is ALWAYS "More is Better!" Your reality with latency and large track counts is determined by how much you have to spend your computer. How powerful your computer is when you're tied to the Apple ecosystem is limited by Apple. You might need to consider something else. The other solution is freezing tracks.

 

[bluedot]

Thanks for the knowledgeable info. So Helix Rack doesn’t have balanced outs without processing? Damn. I currently use an Ensemble. 

 

I had no interest in the USB interface, being compared to thunderbolt with the Apogee. 

 

To to take up half the processing for DI is kinda foolish isn’t it?

 

what do you recommend for splitting signals before the helix?

 

thanks

[rd2rk]

4 minutes ago, bluedot said:

Thanks for the knowledgeable info. So Helix Rack doesn’t have balanced outs without processing? Damn. I currently use an Ensemble. 

 

I had no interest in the USB interface, being compared to thunderbolt with the Apogee. 

 

To to take up half the processing for DI is kinda foolish isn’t it?

 

what do you recommend for splitting signals before the helix?

 

thanks

 

The XLR Outs are balanced. What's an Ensemble?

 

Like I said, you can take a split off the main path before effects and send that to one of the Helix Sends, and then on to the Apogee. It's a waste of resources in that you only get one split per path. It only takes half the DSP if you're NOT using the Helix as AI, and dedicate an entire path.

 

Did you look into using multiple ASIO devices? As I mentioned, that could allow you to use USB 7/8 for the clean signal, no wasted resources of any kind.

 

Any quality ABY splitter will work to split your clean guitar signal before Helix. I use a G10 wireless which has an XLR that I send to the Scarlett and a 1/4" that goes to the Helix. Of course, that's another DAC conversion/added latency, but you could recover it if you use the Digital out on the Helix to send the effected signal to the Apogee.

[bluedot]

Apogee Ensemble.

 

Does the USB connection allow control of the Helix Rack for programming patches within the computer, or is it just as interface? Can I run it from Helix Native?

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by bluedot
Clarification. Link

[rd2rk]

If this:

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EnsembleTB--apogee-ensemble-thunderbolt-30x34-thunderbolt-audio-interface

 

Is what you're using, then you've got LOTS of I/O! Use the digital (S/PDIF) connections live and if you can get Aggregate Devices to work, Helix USB for recording clean and effected signals.

Assuming that your MAC has a USB port to go with it's Thunderbolt, connecting any of the Helixes will allow you to use the HXEdit program.

If you can also get the Aggregate ASIO device thing to work your only limitation will be the MAC itself. Dude, if you can afford the Apogee ensemble, get the best MAC they have! When I win the lottery........

 

I just looked up the Helix Rack features. It has a GUITAR THRU jack on the back panel (not so on my Helix Floor :-(!), so just hook that up to your Apogee and no worries about Aggregate Devices.

 

Here's the manual for the Rack and Controller:

 

https://line6.com/data/6/0a06439c4dfc577d5a2aea898/application/pdf/Helix Rack and Control - Rev B - English .pdf

 

 

[bluedot]

Appreciate your assistance. Much more help than anywhere I have reached out to, including Guitar Center and Sweetwater!