Blackstar ID Core 100 and Helix Issues

[hoppmyers1]

Hello All!

 

I just wanted to share my recent experience trying to dial in some decent overdrive and distortion tones using a Blackstar ID Core 100 modeling amp; actually using two. I’m also wondering if anyone has used the Helix with a Blackstar modeling amp and had issues or if modeling amps pose a problem with Helix in general.

 

First of all, let me say, for those of you who are able to dial in a great sound with the Helix in a matter of minutes, I both, envy and worship you; you are gods. I’m sure I’ve spent at least 40 hours or more over the past week trying to do just that to no avail. For the most part, the sound has been tinny and hollow; however, I can get some pretty decent clean tones.   I’ll also say that I’m not a professional player, nor do I do any recording, so I do not have all of your experience with computer programming, DAW and music; just a hobbyist who plays at home and for the neighbors, even when they don’t care to hear me… I have been playing off and on for over 50 years (more off than on) and in more recent years, I’ve used the Boss GT8 & ME80, so I do have some experience in effect and modeling units, although I will mention that I had somewhat the same issue with them as I am having with the Helix: poor overdrive tone and yes, I am using the same amps; enough introduction.

 

I have spent hours searching this forum and using every suggestion that I could find as well as search the web for settings and how to hook up the Helix to an amp before I came here on bended knee. I have tried hooking the Helix to the front of the amp as well as the effects loop. I have tried the 4 cable method and the 7 cable method using 2 amps in stereo. I have tried all the optional guitar impedance settings on the input noise gate of each and every preset on the Helix. I have tried every hi cut setting between 6khz & 12khz and low cut between 80 hz and 110hz. I have set the guitar pad to off and on (I have a fairly new LP Traditional that has some fairly hot pickups). I have set the input for the guitar to both “instrument” and “line”.  I’ve read where it’s suggested to use a pre-amp on the Helix when going into the effects loop of the guitar amp. I have tried using pre-amps,  amps with cabs, amps separately and amps adding separate cabs. The funny thing is, a pre-amp will sometimes work decent with some settings, but so does an amp with a separate cab as well as all the other options available at different times.

 

As mentioned previously, I can get decent clean tones, but I can’t get any overdriven or distortion tones anywhere near as sweet as I see on the videos I’ve watched. I have tried every setting imaginable. I have watched a dozen Jason Sadites videos and tried mimicking a lot of his settings, with and without compressors and eqs’ and still have only come up with a couple “somewhat” decent fuzz tones. Not much luck with overdrive pedals and amp overdrives. The pedals usually sound hollow and the amps either under or overdriven into an audible nightmare.  

 

I may be wrong, but I think the effects loop set up with the Blackstar is not the best or possibly faulty. First of all, in order to use the effects loop of the Blackstar amp you have to plug in a dummy guitar cable into the input jack. That is something I found out by contacting Blackstar directly a couple years back. Second, when I hook the 4 cable method up to it, none of the pre-amp adjustments change with any of the knobs. The amp has 6 modeling settings from clean to crunch to distortion. None of those change, the volume knob or tone knobs don’t do anything, but….. I can get reverb and delay to change from the amplifier by turning the knobs on the top of the amp. In other words, it's like the effects work in the loop, but not the pre-amp of the amp. in hindsight, there are delay, reverb and modulation effects on the Blackstar and I just realized that only the delay and reverb work, but not the modulation section when I have the 4 cable method going to the amp. I will say that the amp is a stereo amp and has 2 effects return plug ins. I have not tried running 2 returns into it from the Helix; always mono. I wouldn’t think that would have much to do with tone, more with delay and reverb, but I could be wrong.

 

I would expect the question as whether or not I hooked the cables up correctly to come up. The answer is yes; another Line 6 video watched on Youtube. I also have an old Fender Cyber Deluxe modeling amp that I hooked the 4 cable method to and everything worked fine; all the knobs worked. It’s just that the speaker on that amp is 20 years or more old and not the best sounding either. I wonder if speakers sit in rooms like I do and say, “it sucks getting old” lol…..

 

4cm settings:

Guitar—Helix guitar input

Helix Send 1—Amp guitar input

Amp fx send---Helix return 1

Helix ¼” out –Amp fx return

 

Simplified preset setting before adding any effects- was guitar in->send 1 block -> amplifier block-> return 1 block->multi out...... 

 

Lastly, I think I should have just hooked the guitar to the amp and play through it’s 6 modeling options, before all of this. I had not played into it directly for a couple of years and found that it doesn’t sound that awfully good after you get past the “crunch” setting, so I’m thinking that this amp is not a good amp to use with Helix or anything for that matter. I know I'm bypassing the amps pre-amp by using the effects return jack alone and that part of the amp has no impact on the sound (when I'm not running 4 cables), but I'm just wondering if the power amp or speaker is not the best. I’m also wondering if anyone else has had any issues or luck using a Blackstar modeling amp or modeling amps in general.

 

This brings me to the final question: an frfr…. I really would like to get the Helix to sound nice. It has such great potential when things are right; so many fantastic amps and effects available. I’m really leaning towards buying one to see if I can have some better luck and if I do, I’d get a second one. All my 3 amps are modeling amps, so I don’t have another “normal” amp head to try the Helix on. I would consider getting another speaker for the Fender amp to see if that might help, but I’m really looking more to having a stereo sound in my house and figure that if the frfr works better, I’d rather invest in another one instead of the speaker for the amp. I’m not really too interested in playing through that amp anyways. It was a novelty when it came out years ago, but a dinosaur nowadays. Would the consensus recommend the frfr over a purchasing a different kind of guitar amp or are there any other suggestions you can think of that I haven’t tried or am I destined to a live in a digital Sahara Desert for eternity?

 

Thank you in advance. 

 

 

 

 

[rd2rk]

Instead of using separate FX Send and Return Blocks, use a single FX Loop 1 Block. Assign a Stomp/Bypass switch to it while it's ON. Assign the same Stomp/Bypass switch to the Helix Amp Block when it's OFF. SAVE the Preset. It doesn't matter which of those Blocks comes first, just that there's nothing between them. When The FX Loop Block is ON and The Amp Block is OFF the signal bypasses the amp block, goes into the BS preamp from the HX Send, out the BS preamp to the HX Return. When the FX Loop Block is OFF and the HX Amp Block is ON you're bypassing the BS preamp and none of it's controls will work, the HX Amp Block is your Preamp.

 

Try it.

[hoppmyers1]

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

Instead of using separate FX Send and Return Blocks, use a single FX Loop 1 Block. Assign a Stomp/Bypass switch to it while it's ON. Assign the same Stomp/Bypass switch to the Helix Amp Block when it's OFF. SAVE the Preset. It doesn't matter which of those Blocks comes first, just that there's nothing between them. When The FX Loop Block is ON and The Amp Block is OFF the signal bypasses the amp block, goes into the BS preamp from the HX Send, out the BS preamp to the HX Return. When the FX Loop Block is OFF and the HX Amp Block is ON you're bypassing the BS preamp and none of it's controls will work, the HX Amp Block is your Preamp.

 

Try it.

 

Thank you on that. I did get control of the Blackstar amp and it's controls, but I have almost no volume on it. I have to max out channel volume, gain and master volume on the amp itself to get it to about  60 decibels or so, where as the volume on the helix amp would blow out my ears (and probably the amp speaker) if I didnt turn it down before switching from one to the other. I upped the send db and return db on the FX Loop block that I made thinking that might do something, but it didn't. Do you have a solution for that as well, maybe?

[rd2rk]

In Global Settings - Ins/Outs check the levels on the Sends. They should be set to LINE.

[hoppmyers1]

48 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

In Global Settings - Ins/Outs check the levels on the Sends. They should be set to LINE.

Once again, I thank you for your assistance. You were right on the mark. Unfortunately "simplicity" doesn't seem to be a word in my life vocabulary. While messing around with the Helix settings and trying it on my Blackstar, I found that the left/mono return on the back of the amp was faulty. I had mentioned that the amp was stereo in itself and had two effect loops returns.

 

I don't know if the effect loops is supposed to work if you put it in the right effects return with the left/mono not plugged in, but it does, although the volume and clarity is nowhere near as clean as the amps on the Helix when the Blackstar pre-amp is bypassed. I also noticed a very high, almost inaudible squeal when I tweaked any button on the amp. I think it might be on its last leg and could be a lot of, if not all of my problems.

 

I did try the second Blackstar that I have it it had a lot more volume, but I have to admit, other than putting out a decent rectifier sounding amp tone, my Blackstar sounds pretty bad using any of the overdrive or distortion in its presets. I again, played directly into both amps both themselves and I'm to the conclusion, that I'm kicking a couple of dead horses, so I think I will go ahead with the powered speaker route and hope for the best.

 

Thanks again for your help. I may be back in another week, lol.....   

[hoppmyers1]

I just wanted to add to this; for anyone who owns or might own a Blackstar ID Core 100 amp and is considering the Helix... After spending way too many hours this past week trying to get a decent overdrive tone on two separate Blackstar amps I have, I was unsuccessful. Both of the Blackstar amps I have (both ID Core 100) I own gave me the same issues; poor quality, hollow tones or tones that were too distorted.  I very much love the spacey delay and reverb sounds of the Blackstar, but playing through the Helix or directly through the Blackstar for that matter, I just couldn't find a nice clean overdrive/distortion. Hopefully you will have better luck...

 

Today, I hooked up my Fender Cyber Deluxe amp. Something that I've had lying around the house for 2 decades and although I'm sure the speaker is as brittle as toast, I was still able to dial in a very nice overdriven tone in less than 15 minutes, just running one cable from the Helix into the effects send loop of the amp. I now have faith in the Helix and am no longer beating my head against the wall.