Variax Tone/Volume knob Helix issues Attn chuskey

[brue58ski]

Here's an issue that I'm wondering if anyone else experiences.  When I go from one patch with the tone knob at one setting to different patch with a different setting, the tone knob's position remains the same as the previous patches tone setting. For example if I go from a patch with the tone knob at 10 to patch with the tone knob at 1, it stays on 10 even though the Helix Editor and Helix screen indicates the tone knob is at 1. HOWEVER, if I select the patch with the tone knob at 1 again (either from the Helix or the HX Edit) it then will switch the Variax to the saved tone knob position. If the tone knob is saved as Don't force it goes to whatever position the tone knob on the guitar is at. So that does seem to work.

I've tried this with the volume. Volume works like it’s supposed to when specific numbers are selected. BUT when Vol Don’t force is selected, it stays on the previous volume. And selecting the patch again doesn’t correct it. I thought DON’T FORCE meant it goes to where ever the volume knob on the Variax is set. Which the Tone knob does. So how is Don't Force supposed to work? I thought it meant it will stay where the physical knob is set at i.e. not force the Variax to do anything. Not that it stays on the previous setting, whatever that might be. I have included the tone patches I used to experiment with for this. They are just a Variax input with a compressor to boost the level to listening levels.

Tone 1.hlx Tone 10 .hlx Tone Don't Force.hlx

[HonestOpinion]

3 hours ago, brue58ski said:

Here's an issue that I'm wondering if anyone else experiences.  When I go from one patch with the tone knob at one setting to different patch with a different setting, the tone knob's position remains the same as the previous patches tone setting. For example if I go from a patch with the tone knob at 10 to patch with the tone knob at 1, it stays on 10 even though the Helix Editor and Helix screen indicates the tone knob is at 1. HOWEVER, if I select the patch with the tone knob at 1 again (either from the Helix or the HX Edit) it then will switch the Variax to the saved tone knob position. If the tone knob is saved as Don't force it goes to whatever position the tone knob on the guitar is at. So that does seem to work.

I've tried this with the volume. Volume works like it’s supposed to when specific numbers are selected. BUT when Vol Don’t force is selected, it stays on the previous volume. And selecting the patch again doesn’t correct it. I thought DON’T FORCE meant it goes to where ever the volume knob on the Variax is set. Which the Tone knob does. So how is Don't Force supposed to work? I thought it meant it will stay where the physical knob is set at i.e. not force the Variax to do anything. Not that it stays on the previous setting, whatever that might be. I have included the tone patches I used to experiment with for this. They are just a Variax input with a compressor to boost the level to listening levels.

Tone 1.hlx 7.17 kB · 0 downloads Tone 10 .hlx 7.17 kB · 0 downloads Tone Don't Force.hlx 7.18 kB · 0 downloads

 

I downloaded your presets and started testing. Here are some things I noticed.

• One of your preset's output blocks was set to "XLR" the other two were set to "Multi". Don't know if this was impacting your results.
• If you want the Helix to change to the volume or tone setting you set under 'Volume Knob(preset)'  or 'Tone Knob(preset)'  you also have to set the 'Lock Control(preset)'="Volume+Tone"
• The Helix does not dynamically reflect the volume and tone settings on my JTV Variax. So for example if I twist the tone or volume knob manually the Helix does not reflect the new value.

In the interest of full disclosure I do not have the latest and greatest update on my JTV Variax as the battery died(bummer!) and I have not been able to update the Variax without it.  Line6 really needs to modify future Variax guitars so they charge the battery when plugged into a VDI port on an HX device.

 

To summarize the behavior I am seeing is that both/either the 'Volume Knob(preset)'  and/or 'Tone Knob(preset)' have to be set as well as the  'Lock Control(preset)' for the Helix to control the Variax tone and volume properly.  Not sure if this is by design but it would not be my preferred behavior. I would prefer that the 'Volume Knob(preset)'  and/or 'Tone Knob(preset)' settings always change the Variax unless set to "Don't Force". When the  'Lock Control(preset)'  was set it would additionally prevent the tone or volume from changing when manually turning the tone and/or volume knob on the Variax.  Can't remember but I think it worked that way in some previous firmware revisions.

[brue58ski]

17 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

I downloaded your presets and started testing. Here are some things I noticed.

• One of your preset's output blocks was set to "XLR" the other two were set to "Multi". Don't know if this was impacting your results.
• If you want the Helix to change to the volume or tone setting you set under 'Volume Knob(preset)'  or 'Tone Knob(preset)'  you also have to set the 'Lock Control(preset)'="Volume+Tone"
• The Helix does not dynamically reflect the volume and tone settings on my JTV Variax. So for example if I twist the tone or volume knob manually the Helix does not reflect the new value.

In the interest of full disclosure I do not have the latest and greatest update on my JTV Variax as the battery died(bummer!) and I have not been able to update the Variax without it.  Line6 really needs to modify future Variax guitars so they charge the battery when plugged into a VDI port on an HX device.

 

To summarize the behavior I am seeing is that both/either the 'Volume Knob(preset)'  and/or 'Tone Knob(preset)' have to be set as well as the  'Lock Control(preset)' for the Helix to control the Variax tone and volume properly.  Not sure if this is by design but it would not be my preferred behavior. I would prefer that the 'Volume Knob(preset)'  and/or 'Tone Knob(preset)' settings always change the Variax unless set to "Don't Force". When the  'Lock Control(preset)'  was set it would additionally prevent the tone or volume from changing when manually turning the tone and/or volume knob on the Variax.  Can't remember but I think it worked that way in some previous firmware revisions.

 

The output block makes no difference. My Helix does reflect the volume and tone changes dynamically so I suspect it's because I do have the latest firmware on my JTV part of which was to increase the JTV/Helix compatibility. Mainly to be able to use HD Workbench through the Helix. So you didn't say but I'm assuming you didn't have the issues I have with the Vol & Tone preset set to Lock. I will definitely try that at home. Did you see the issues I described with them unlocked although it's possible your JTV is reacting differtently than mine because of the firmware difference.

[HonestOpinion]

7 hours ago, brue58ski said:

 

The output block makes no difference. My Helix does reflect the volume and tone changes dynamically so I suspect it's because I do have the latest firmware on my JTV part of which was to increase the JTV/Helix compatibility. Mainly to be able to use HD Workbench through the Helix. So you didn't say but I'm assuming you didn't have the issues I have with the Vol & Tone preset set to Lock. I will definitely try that at home. Did you see the issues I described with them unlocked although it's possible your JTV is reacting differtently than mine because of the firmware difference.

 

Ran some more experiments. The first thing I have to note is that the Helix is still acting strangely when presets are imported or copied. Could of course be some other issue but restarting today with the presets I imported from you seemed to restore the Variax volume and tone levels being reflected properly in HX Edit. I also copied your presets to create a couple of additional test cases and I could see them rebuild on restart. I think Line6 may still be having some issues with how copied or imported presets are being handled and until that is remedied I remain convinced that a best practice is to restart the Helix whenever presets have been copied or imported. What a giant hassle!

 

I did see the issue you described. To get the tone settings to work properly required clicking on them a second time(unlocked). This was not the case with the two presets I created to test volume changes. Here's where it gets weird though. If I switch to one of my own test presets and then back to one of your tone tests, they work on the first click. Something definitely very strange going on here.

 

Oh, and now it just got weirder still. All of a sudden it is working consistently and perfectly when I click between your test presets as well as my own. Almost as if everything started working almost properly after the Helix and Variax had been on for a while. But no, now the volume knob on the Variax has no effect whatsoever even on a Don't Force and Unlocked setting. I am finding this very difficult to test as the results I am getting are wildly inconsistent. I think you may have discovered some buggy behavior although until I get a new battery and get up to the latest Variax firmware I will not be sure.  I think I will suspend further testing until then to prevent muddying the waters.

 

Btw, sheer speculation but the "Don't Force" setting on a preset behavior could be that rather than the volume or tone jumping to the setting on the Variax it stays at the settings from the prior preset until you manually change it on the Variax. I could see that being a legitimate approach to the Don't Force setting even if some users find it less than ideal. Should probably be an option.

[brue58ski]

18 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

 

Btw, sheer speculation but the "Don't Force" setting on a preset behavior could be that rather than the volume or tone jumping to the setting on the Variax it stays at the settings from the prior preset until you manually change it on the Variax. I could see that being a legitimate approach to the Don't Force setting even if some users find it less than ideal. Should probably be an option.

 

Personally I would like Don't Force to reflect the settings on the Variax and not the previous setting's. But that's just me. I have a support ticket I turned in about this at the beginning of May. It's still open and I have received no response other than an initial "thanks for bringing this to our attention" message. I have had issues like this through all of the firmware updates although slightly different and inconsistent. This upgrade was the first one where it has behaved consistently. I wonder if your results are because of the earlier Variax firmware that your's has. Thank you for spending the time to check this out. Not sure if this would be an issue but I created these patches after the 2.90 update, not the 2.92. Although I have found the same behavior occurs in both versions for me. I did find the Volume reacted the same as you. I found that Don't Force for the tone knob reflects what the Variax is set at and Don't Force for the Volume reflects the position it was in for the last patch like you did. At least it proves I'm not totally crazy (a little, not totally). Thanks again.