USB? Where exactly in the HX chain?

[Vitaaguitar]

Successfully playing Synth-guitar on external device (Origin Midi Guitar 2 on iPhone via USB in HX Stomp XL), yay!

But I can not seem to apply any effect to the  synth signal -  I know i can select USB input (right at the beginning of the chain, choosing Main/Aux/USB) but this does not seem to make any difference, synth remains unaffected.

 

Does anyone know where does the "audio from usb" enter the signal chain?

And how can have it go through the FX Chain?

 

Mostly i want to record layers into my external loop pedal (which is inserted via FX LOOP) - but all it records is direct guitar, no synth..

Thoughts?

[datacommando]

On 8/28/2022 at 10:50 PM, Vitaaguitar said:

Thoughts?

Hi,

 

If your guitar is connected to the HX Stomp XL, the audio signal is sent to the iPhone (Apple Camera Kit) over USB 1&2. The signal passes into MIDI Guitar 2 and then back out again to the XL over USB 1&2 and so it cannot be processed by the XL’s internal FX.

 

You would need the audio out from MIDI Guitar 2 to return to the HXSXL on another USB Channel and through a signal chain with effects set to respond to that input. Much the same technique as re-amping, which accepts USB 5&6 to process through the onboard amps and effects.

 

IFAIK, this isn’t possible in the way you are thinking it could be. 

 

Check the Owner’s Manual pages 61 - 62 regarding USB audio.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense

[Vitaaguitar]

On 8/28/2022 at 7:05 PM, datacommando said:

Hi,

 

If your guitar is connected to the HX Stomp XL, the audio signal is sent to the iPhone (Apple Camera Kit) over USB 1&2. The signal passes into MIDI Guitar 2 and then back out again to the XL over USB 1&2 and so it cannot be processed by the XL’s internal FX.

 

You would need the audio out from MIDI Guitar 2 to return to the HXSXL on another USB Channel and through a signal chain with effects set to respond to that input. Much the same technique as re-amping, which accepts USB 5&6 to process through the onboard amps and effects.

 

IFAIK, this isn’t possible in the way you are thinking it could be. 

 

Check the Owner’s Manual pages 61 - 62 regarding USB audio.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense

Thanks for this -  controls over Usb path seem to be limited - hoping that that a clever way to use a mix of PathA/B, MainInput/AuxIn, L/R FX send/return could go around the issue, but i have not found it so far. Still tweaking..

[datacommando]

On 8/30/2022 at 11:08 PM, Vitaaguitar said:

Still tweaking..

Hmm…
 

AFAIK, It can’t be achieved using the Stomp XL in a live situation. As I commented previously, you could use the re-amping option by recording the MIDI Guitar 2 output (into GarageBand) and the audio run back through the XL on USB 5&6.

 

The Aux/Return input will only handle audio coming in on the 1/4” jacks, no option for USB. If you had a full Helix unit you have the advantage of the second DSP chip which could handle the signal from the return from the MIDI Guitar 2 on paths 2A and 2B.

 

Hope this help/makes sense.

 

EDIT:

You could try using MIDI Guitar 2 as a GarageBand instrument plug in and use some of the time based effects plug-ins in GB and run that back through the XL to whatever you are monitoring on. Just an idea. :-)

Edited August 30, 2022 by datacommando
Added comment

[Vitaaguitar]

On 8/30/2022 at 6:58 PM, datacommando said:

You could try using MIDI Guitar 2 as a GarageBand instrument plug in and use some of the time based effects plug-ins in GB and run that back through the XL to whatever you are monitoring on. Just an idea. :-)

 

Interesting thought - using GarageBand app on the iphone and get effects on MG2 from that

 

- mostly, i m fine with the MG2 sounds as-is though

- i m just hoping i could layer them in my loop pedals (inserted via a FX Loop stereo block - thus my need for USB to be part of the chain). 

 

I know i could use the external looper AFTER the Stomp

- but then the looper wont be heard in the "headphones out" (that i use live with In Ear Monitors)

 

Tricky (or as you put it "aint possible")..

[datacommando]

On 8/31/2022 at 3:54 AM, Vitaaguitar said:

Interesting thought - using GarageBand app on the iphone and get effects on MG2 from that

Hi,

 

I haven’t messed around with MG2 for quite some time, but IIRC it can run as a standalone app and it is also a host for other plug-in fx. The thing that is causing me to get side tracked here, is you want to use USB to hook up your iPhone to the HX Stomp XL. Maybe not necessary - use a guitar cable instead.

 

I have an iPad that I can use for putting down ideas to use later in the studio, but beside the ACK connector I also have a mucho cheapo iRig2 plug that allows my to get the guitar into GarageBand, or AmpliTube , or whatever else.

 

Interface:

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irig2/

 

Grab yourself something like that and you can simply stick your guitar into the Left Input of the Stomp and take a 1/4” cable from the iRig to the Right Input on the Stomp. After that you could then process each instrument separately or all together. See video below for ideas.

 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[Vitaaguitar]

On 8/31/2022 at 7:53 AM, datacommando said:

Hi,

 

I haven’t messed around with MG2 for quite some time, but IIRC it can run as a standalone app and it is also a host for other plug-in fx. The thing that is causing me to get side tracked here, is you want to use USB to hook up your iPhone to the HX Stomp XL. Maybe not necessary - use a guitar cable instead.

 

I have an iPad that I can use for putting down ideas to use later in the studio, but beside the ACK connector I also have a mucho cheapo iRig2 plug that allows my to get the guitar into GarageBand, or AmpliTube , or whatever else.

 

Interface:

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irig2/

 

Grab yourself something like that and you can simply stick your guitar into the Left Input of the Stomp and take a 1/4” cable from the iRig to the Right Input on the Stomp. After that you could then process each instrument separately or all together. See video below for ideas.

 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

Thanks for this idea!  Quite an interesting direction - MG2 via iRig instead of HX - that would definitely brings full control of the synth signal.

 

Although my current HXStomp setup is already pretty busy atm:

- input R is used for Guitar

- input L is for Microphone (beatboxing)

- Send+Return L/R are for external loop pedals (2 independent channels, one for beat, the other for music)

- Exp 1/2 is for 2 external Exp pedals (wah and FX Loop volume)

 

The only connections available are Midi (that s why i love that Stomp, it s user friendly!)

 

Besides I did not know that the mixer could be dragged to Path B toward ST Send!

 

 

[Vitaaguitar]

Getting back on your suggestion - if there s a live-performance-friendly way to bypass MG2 in and out swiftly, i could just have the guitar go thru iRig and then straight into HXS Input R - that would solve my issue right? i ll look it up...

[datacommando]

On 8/31/2022 at 9:58 PM, Vitaaguitar said:

Getting back on your suggestion - if there s a live-performance-friendly way to bypass MG2 in and out swiftly, i could just have the guitar go thru iRig and then straight into HXS Input R - that would solve my issue right? i ll look it up...

Yep - you could do it with just some sort of simple A/B switch box with the MG2 cable into one socket and your guitar into the other - one click of the footswitch and it will swap between which input is fed into your Stomp.

Lots of options for A/B (or ABY) switching - just Google away! (Bet you wish you has bought a Helix floor/Rack now)
 

;-)

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

[Vitaaguitar]

On 8/31/2022 at 6:47 PM, datacommando said:

Yep - you could do it with just some sort of simple A/B switch box with the MG2 cable into one socket and your guitar into the other - one click of the footswitch and it will swap between which input is fed into your Stomp.

Lots of options for A/B (or ABY) switching - just Google away! (Bet you wish you has bought a Helix floor/Rack now)
 

;-)

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

A/B box could do the trick yup - i have one actually... food for thoughts...

 

As of now, my current live rig in progress is:

HXS XL + 2 exp pedals + 3 loop pedals + 1 Boss OC3 + 1 MiniPolytune (+Cioks DC7 powersupply)

all fitting on a DIY 14x10" pedalboard 

 

Adding MG2+iPhone+iRig+A/B box is still more stuff prone to failure on the gig.

 

As for the Helix: no, It s much too BIG!!

Granted it will bring a lot of solutions, although ike many here, my goal when going Helix is to downsize my rig - smaller, lighter, simpler, easy to trouble-shoot onsite, faster to set up...

 

I tried HeadRush MX5, regular HX Stomp + Midi switch, and now the XL - so far the best solution.

Any device is heavily vetted before being included!

- ideally i m aiming for all-in-one-box type of solution ;=)

[datacommando]

On 9/1/2022 at 2:17 AM, Vitaaguitar said:

- ideally i m aiming for all-in-one-box type of solution ;=)

And that is exactly the reason that I bought my Helix floor unit way back in 2015, but I’m a studio rat, so it lives on a stand set at desk height right beside me, making the strobe tuner easily visible. It has 2 external expression pedals on the floor and along with the onboard 1 and 6 switch loopers, I have 3 different external loopers (4 if you include the one in the Mooer Ocean Machine) that can be patched in when required. I also have a huge rack full of studio outboard - vintage synth modules, DDL, reverb, Akai Sampler, drum module etc., that can be patched into the FX loops as, and when (still a big fan of the SPX90 Symphonic effect).

 

You could possibly guess from this that your quest for the small footprint FX board will be endless, as long as folks like us have GAS! - it doesn’t matter - your gear will always keep expanding. Jeez I still have a POD XT Live, HD500 and a Roland GR33 gathering dust in the corner. Anyhow your current board is 14x10“ and my Helix is 22.05x11.85x3.6”, around a third lager and it replaced a whole rack of outboard studio gear. The Helix, along with my Arturia KeyLab, and XTouch universal MIDI controller gives me all I need for now.

[Vitaaguitar]

On 9/1/2022 at 8:41 AM, datacommando said:

And that is exactly the reason that I bought my Helix floor unit way back in 2015, but I’m a studio rat

 

I like your stream-lined (albeit quite rich) setup - your (long) signal path is easier to deal with indeed. Nice collection of staple gear too, cool!

 

My board is for live gig and touring, and i m into some sort of minimalist phase at the moment (less of everything, one guitar does it all, one bag traveling, etc..) so the bigger Helix feels much too bulky/heavy for my needs!

 

I might just be daydreaming with this idea of all-in-one haha

[datacommando]

On 9/1/2022 at 7:02 PM, Vitaaguitar said:

I might just be daydreaming with this idea of all-in-one haha

Good luck with that - hope you find your ideal small setup.

[Vitaaguitar]

On 9/1/2022 at 2:11 PM, datacommando said:

Good luck with that - hope you find your ideal small setup.

Right? Thanks again for sharing your solutions and expertise, much appreciated help.

 

Anyway, i find out i cannot really rely on an iphone app for live purpose (yesterday, MG2 just wont produce any sound at all...) so i guess i ll keep that synth-in-the-pocket thing as a fun/possible option whenever it is available.. Isnt that a step towards ideal small setup? :D

[datacommando]

On 9/1/2022 at 7:34 PM, Vitaaguitar said:

guess i ll keep that synth-in-the-pocket thing as a fun/possible option whenever it is available.

You still have GarageBand, which is crammed with Synthi goodies and audio loops. Now you know how to get audio from the iPhone into your XL you have endless possibilities as a one man band. You could set up entire backing tracks to fire off as needed.

 

Just another crazy idea. Have fun experimenting.

[Vitaaguitar]

Have you used GB on an iPhone? Reliable?

 

[datacommando]

On 9/1/2022 at 8:41 PM, Vitaaguitar said:

Have you used GB on an iPhone? Reliable?

Hi,

Hmm… reliable? That’s very subjective, and exactly what is meant by reliable?

 

As stated previously, I’ve used it on my iPad as a way to quickly capture ideas while at home that can then be transfer over to Logic when back in the studio. I have alway found it to be very good in my experience. Using the Apple Camera Connection Kit, I have been able to use a small MIDI keyboard to record the inbuilt soft synths, and the iRig2 handled getting the guitar input. 
 

In a live situation, this is the sort of thing that only you can decide. That is why I said “Have fun experimenting”. One of the reasons that I mentioned using GarageBand once more was, if you did have a backing track or audio loop playing back, then you could still use the USB1&2 channels from the iPhone to your Stomp XL, because you could have a fully produced piece from GB not requiring any further fx adding.

 

There are many way to approach what you are trying to ultimately achieve, but only you can decide what will work for you. Any  item of a live, or studio rig, can fail at any time - that’s the nature of the beast. As ever in the world of Helix, and digital - fail safe is the way. Always have a backup - preset, setlist, cables, hardware, whatever - if it can go wrong… it will.

 

You need to sit down and think about exactly what you what to do, and how to utilise what you have at your disposal, to help you get there.

 

Ye Gods, back in ‘83, when I was still splicing tape, and just discovering the miracle of MIDI when I got my Roland JX-3P and tried to get it to communicate with an early crappy drum machine, if I had been give access to some of the kit that is available now, who knows… 

 

Experiment - and have fun!

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[Vitaaguitar]

On 9/1/2022 at 7:50 PM, datacommando said:

Hi,

Hmm… reliable? That’s very subjective, and exactly what is meant by reliable?

 

As stated previously, I’ve used it on my iPad as a way to quickly capture ideas while at home that can then be transfer over to Logic when back in the studio. I have alway found it to be very good in my experience. Using the Apple Camera Connection Kit, I have been able to use a small MIDI keyboard to record the inbuilt soft synths, and the iRig2 handled getting the guitar input. 
 

In a live situation, this is the sort of thing that only you can decide. That is why I said “Have fun experimenting”. One of the reasons that I mentioned using GarageBand once more was, if you did have a backing track or audio loop playing back, then you could still use the USB1&2 channels from the iPhone to your Stomp XL, because you could have a fully produced piece from GB not requiring any further fx adding.

 

There are many way to approach what you are trying to ultimately achieve, but only you can decide what will work for you. Any  item of a live, or studio rig, can fail at any time - that’s the nature of the beast. As ever in the world of Helix, and digital - fail safe is the way. Always have a backup - preset, setlist, cables, hardware, whatever - if it can go wrong… it will.

 

You need to sit down and think about exactly what you what to do, and how to utilise what you have at your disposal, to help you get there.

 

Ye Gods, back in ‘83, when I was still splicing tape, and just discovering the miracle of MIDI when I got my Roland JX-3P and tried to get it to communicate with an early crappy drum machine, if I had been give access to some of the kit that is available now, who knows… 

 

Experiment - and have fun!

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

Hey there, 
Thanks for your input and support - i ll give GB on iPhone a try, will see what happens

 

Of course i create all the sound on the fly from the guitar (and mic) - so not interested in the multi-tracking aspect of GB, but maybe as you suggested, the multi-effect aspect.

 

Although i love the digital world and its promises, i still tend to favor "hardware (!?!)" in live situation - it is still faster to quickly unplug/plug a digital pedal acting up, than it is to reboot any phone/table/computer in my experience.

 

Looper-wise for instance, i tried apps like Quantiloop and Looper - but both can be unpredictable - so i stick to (cumbersome) hardware loopers.

 

Now watch me trying out Midi Guitar and asking questions here about it haha...

[Vitaaguitar]

On 9/1/2022 at 7:50 PM, datacommando said:

Ye Gods, back in ‘83, when I was still splicing tape, and just discovering the miracle of MIDI when I got my Roland JX-3P and tried to get it to communicate with an early crappy drum machine, if I had been give access to some of the kit that is available now, who knows… 

Miraculous i concur

How would this have modified your music path?

[datacommando]

On 9/3/2022 at 6:04 AM, Vitaaguitar said:

Looper-wise for instance, i tried apps like Quantiloop and Looper - but both can be unpredictable - so i stick to (cumbersome) hardware loopers.

 

Here ya go! - check out this stuff.

https://www.moodscaper.com

Not exactly regular loopers, but very interesting software that creates soundscapes, essentially a generative atmospheric sample-based instrument. 3 different versions, synth, guitar, and piano based, and you can replace the sounds that it plays back. I have been playing around with these three for quite some time now. Not quite the easiest thing to get to grips with but capable os some truly remarkable results. Check the documentation.

 

On 9/3/2022 at 6:06 AM, Vitaaguitar said:

How would this have modified your music path?

 

LOL! Well, back in the 80's MIDI and computers were a brand new thing and I was still using tape machines for recording. Around that time, some scientist guys at  company in Australia created a computer based recording/sampling machine known as the "Fairlight CMI". Fantastically expensive piece of equipment available only to the likes of Peter Gabriel, Kate Bush, Alan Parsons and Trevor Horn. At the time, I thought that I could never have hoped to access anything like that in a millions years - well, now I have 2 software versions of the Fairlight, and also the equally famous Synclavier and Emulator, but guess what - there are now fully featured DAWs that can do a hell of a lot more than any of those  units, and they are FREE! YAY!

 

Have fun going loopy.