Catalyst 100 Midi Controller for change the 6 Banks

[udostoll]

Dear All,

 

I just bought the Catalyst 100 . What a great amp . I have just testet the LSF 2 for to change from channel A to B and I testet the

Harley Benton MP 100 for the Midi Programm Change ...... but I was not happy with both.

 

I think I need a midi foot controller for to change the 6 Banks and and the channels A and B .

 

What is the best and easiest way to do this ... what is the best and easiestfoot controller ?????

 

Thank You all ..... Udo

[rd2rk]

What was the problem with the Harley Benton MP 100? It should work fine in Custom Mode.

 

What's your budget? Floorspace restrictions? MIDI experience?

 

I use my Helix.

I also have an FCB1010/UNO2 that I've programmed to work which is overkill, the stock FCB1010 will do the job and still be overkill.

It's cheap, indestructible, big and ugly. Has two Expression Pedals.

 

The Morningstar MC series is very popular but pricey.

[BSByrdman]

If you have a bigger budget, you should at least look at HXFX, Stomp, or Stomp XL.  Line 6 has a great video where they are using the HXFX to assign midi locations to control the amp.  I watched it, but since I dont have an HXFX yet, a lot went in one ear and out the other.  I need it in my hands to really "get" it but it did give me an overall understanding. 

[Pewpewyourdead]

Has anyone tried the Meloaudio Midi Commander with the Catalyst 100? I sold my 60 and got this one because the two button switch was basically worthless for doing any switching. I love this amp for the clean pedal platform, but it would be nice to program some sounds to have on hand as well. I have the Behringer 2x12 plank but it takes up to much real estate and hard to program. This Midi Commander will fit nicely in front of my pedal board if it is compatible with the amp. Anybody tried this out?

[rd2rk]

I don't have one but have looked into it and read the manual.

These are the problems as I see it:

 

Can only send one message at a time

Toggling CCs are restricted to 0/64

 

It'll work for the basic Cat functions.

 

What is the "Behringer 2x12 plank"?

If you mean the FCB1010, yes, it is huge. Ugly too. 

Hard to program? Depends on the installed chip.

The stock chip is more powerful than the MIDI Commander and entirely sufficient (with the UNO_ControlCenter Editor) for use with the Cat.

The UNO chip is better if you only need control of 5 or 6 CC/Bypass functions (requires UNO_ControlCenter to do it right)

Both can be programmed with a GUI app, FREE for the stock chip, $25 for the UNO chip editor (UNO_ControlCenter).

The UNO2 chip will do most anything you need it to do but requires basic programming skills (no GUI app) and comes with an excellent Code Editor and user manual. That said, it's total overkill for the Cat.

 

FWIW I use a combination of the LFS2 (works fine for me) and my Helix using Command Center.

 

[Pewpewyourdead]

Yes I have the FCB1010 and it is just to big ! I’ve got it up for sale as I said my pedal board I have  12 on board as it is. All I want to do is perform the basic midi commands that are listed in the manual. I should say the cc commands. I have an ancient ART X11 midi controller that seems to do the basic program changes…some of them …channel changes and A/B but nobody seems to be able to say which of these midi controllers on the market are compatible with this amp…including Line 6 ! It’s very frustrating @#&#&$@#$&!!! You would think they could try some of these out and give some recommendations. I will admit I am a total chuckle head when it comes to this midi stuff but you can get answers about compatibility  with the Helix gear all over the the interweb. I DO’NT HAVE HELIX I BOUGHT A CATALYST …geez come on you guys. Okay I’m finished venting…LOL!  I appreciate Rd2rk for helping out I really do. So what  are the restrictions that you spoke of with the cc commands? I’ve also looked at this Mwave Chocolate which is really inexpensive an seems to be gaining popularity.  Or maybe the Airstep? My bass player is using it with his Katana 100 W head and says it works well. But again no mention of Catalyst anywhere. Thanks my friend!

[rd2rk]

On 4/16/2023 at 5:12 PM, Pewpewyourdead said:

So what  are the restrictions that you spoke of with the cc commands?

 

TL;DR - Cheap solution - get the Ampero Control. Pricier but MUCH more powerful solution - get the MC6.

 

The MeloAudio MIDI Commander (and Harley-Benton MP100 - same device) will work fine. The main restriction has to do with CC Toggling. As far as I can tell, they will only toggle between the values of 0 and 64. This is sufficient for Bypass functions. BUT... suppose you want to toggle GAIN levels. You might want to set the MIN value to 50 and the MAX value to 90 (these are not direct percentages, you'd need to experiment with the Values to get what you want). You can't do that. If you don't think this would be useful to you then these might be viable solutions for you, and quite affordable (see below for the other caveat).

 

The other restriction is that each switch can only send one command. Where this would be a problem is if you wanted to be able to substitute a different EFFECT for the one SAVED with the Preset. For instance, suppose you have the SAVED EFFECT as the DELAY, but you want to be able to switch to Phaser on-the-fly. You would need to send at least two commands - CC#58 Value 2 (selects Phaser) and CC#28 Value 127 (turns Phaser ON). You might also need to send CC#74 Value 0 to place the Phaser in the PRE position. These are all things that the Morningstar MC series (and FCB1010 with UNO2) are easily capable of, but that neither the MIDI Commander/MP100 nor the Chocolate can do.

 

In addition, while the Chocolate can send two messages, it can't send them concurrently. You send them using PRESS/RELEASE or LONG PRESS.

Also, I only watched a couple of videos, but it appears that the Chocolate, while it has an Editor App (the other two do not), there's no simple way to set up toggling - you need to use Hexadecimal commands. Do YOU speak Hex? I don't. It's not rocket science but it sure is a PITA! The last thing I want to mention about the Chocolate is that BT sucks. It's (IME) very undependable. I have the Waza Air headphones and bought the Airstep BW controller for them. It stays connected for a few minutes at a time. Sometimes longer, but then will randomly drop when I try to use it. Yes, this is with everything on the latest FW/SW versions and on both iPhone and an iPad. Undependable gear sucks. BT sucks except for MAYBE listening to music while jogging.

 

If you are undaunted by the above rant concerning the viability of BT controllers, there's another option, the Ampero Control. This device has the advantage that it can also be hard wired with a standard 5pin MIDI DIN cable. It can also send up to 16 messages concurrently on separate channels (it can control multiple devices), it has a GUI Editor and it uses standard CC messages for toggling (no HEX!). This is actually the best device of the batch. I might even get one myself just because it's small. The only thing that's preventing me from getting one is that it appears to only be configurable via the BT App. That means that the usefulness of the device is dependent on Hotone's continued support of the app. I have emailed them concerning this and hopefully they'll respond quickly. If that is the case, then this device is a guaranteed dumpster contribution at some point in the future. The Morningstar devices, while much pricier, are NOT app dependent and as mentioned, the MC/MP100 don't have an app.

 

SUMMARY: The Ampero Control checks all the boxes and is pretty cheap (<>$120). I don't have one (yet) so I can't give a full endorsement, but it looks good, assuming that configuration is not app dependent. If that doesn't matter to you (you trust Hotone), go for it!

 

FINAL THOUGHTS

All other functionality being equal, the more switches you have, the more flexible your configuration at the cost of a larger device.

If I were getting the MIDI Commander/MP100 I would configure the top row of 4 switches for presets and the bottom row for FX Bypass.

If I were getting the Ampero I would have the A and B switches set for presets and the C and D switches set for FX bypass.

As affects the Catalyst, each Channel is a Preset, each pair of Channels is a Bank.

6 Banks, 12 Channels. For direct access to all 12 Presets that's 3 Banks on the MC/MP100, 6 Banks on the Ampero, or 12 if using 3 switches for Bypass.

MC/MP100 have a nice function where you can immediately load the first Preset in a Bank when you use the separate Bank UP/DOWN switches to change Banks.

The Ampero requires that you hit two switches concurrently (BIG PITA) to switch Banks, then hit the desired Preset switch.

The Morningstar MC6 has none of the mentioned restrictions. In addition, you can attach an external two button FS to negate the requirement of pressing two switches to Bank UP/DOWN. External switches can do other things, and the on-board switches have multiple programmable "actions"- Press, Release, Long Press, Long Press Release, Double Tap, Double Tap Release, Long Double Tap, Long Double Tap Release and others.

 

These, and all of the many other MC6 features, are certainly overkill for the Cat, but who knows what the Cat MkII will be capable of?

Or if you might expand your MIDI horizons in the future?

Spend a bit extra now, or try to finance a better controller later by selling a function-limited cheap controller at a loss?

 

Is your head exploding yet? :-)

 

EDIT: I just found confirmation from a user (on TGP) that the only way to configure the Ampero is via BT. Also, while the iPhone app works fine, the Android app is flakey. I still recommend it as the best cheap solution.

 

[de073823]

On 4/17/2023 at 6:08 AM, rd2rk said:

 

TL;DR - Cheap solution - get the Ampero Control. Pricier but MUCH more powerful solution - get the MC6.

 

The MeloAudio MIDI Commander (and Harley-Benton MP100 - same device) will work fine. The main restriction has to do with CC Toggling. As far as I can tell, they will only toggle between the values of 0 and 64. This is sufficient for Bypass functions. BUT... suppose you want to toggle GAIN levels. You might want to set the MIN value to 50 and the MAX value to 90 (these are not direct percentages, you'd need to experiment with the Values to get what you want). You can't do that. If you don't think this would be useful to you then these might be viable solutions for you, and quite affordable (see below for the other caveat).

 

The other restriction is that each switch can only send one command. Where this would be a problem is if you wanted to be able to substitute a different EFFECT for the one SAVED with the Preset. For instance, suppose you have the SAVED EFFECT as the DELAY, but you want to be able to switch to Phaser on-the-fly. You would need to send at least two commands - CC#58 Value 2 (selects Phaser) and CC#28 Value 127 (turns Phaser ON). You might also need to send CC#74 Value 0 to place the Phaser in the PRE position. These are all things that the Morningstar MC series (and FCB1010 with UNO2) are easily capable of, but that neither the MIDI Commander/MP100 nor the Chocolate can do.

 

In addition, while the Chocolate can send two messages, it can't send them concurrently. You send them using PRESS/RELEASE or LONG PRESS.

Also, I only watched a couple of videos, but it appears that the Chocolate, while it has an Editor App (the other two do not), there's no simple way to set up toggling - you need to use Hexadecimal commands. Do YOU speak Hex? I don't. It's not rocket science but it sure is a PITA! The last thing I want to mention about the Chocolate is that BT sucks. It's (IME) very undependable. I have the Waza Air headphones and bought the Airstep BW controller for them. It stays connected for a few minutes at a time. Sometimes longer, but then will randomly drop when I try to use it. Yes, this is with everything on the latest FW/SW versions and on both iPhone and an iPad. Undependable gear sucks. BT sucks except for MAYBE listening to music while jogging.

 

If you are undaunted by the above rant concerning the viability of BT controllers, there's another option, the Ampero Control. This device has the advantage that it can also be hard wired with a standard 5pin MIDI DIN cable. It can also send up to 16 messages concurrently on separate channels (it can control multiple devices), it has a GUI Editor and it uses standard CC messages for toggling (no HEX!). This is actually the best device of the batch. I might even get one myself just because it's small. The only thing that's preventing me from getting one is that it appears to only be configurable via the BT App. That means that the usefulness of the device is dependent on Hotone's continued support of the app. I have emailed them concerning this and hopefully they'll respond quickly. If that is the case, then this device is a guaranteed dumpster contribution at some point in the future. The Morningstar devices, while much pricier, are NOT app dependent and as mentioned, the MC/MP100 don't have an app.

 

SUMMARY: The Ampero Control checks all the boxes and is pretty cheap (<>$120). I don't have one (yet) so I can't give a full endorsement, but it looks good, assuming that configuration is not app dependent. If that doesn't matter to you (you trust Hotone), go for it!

 

FINAL THOUGHTS

All other functionality being equal, the more switches you have, the more flexible your configuration at the cost of a larger device.

If I were getting the MIDI Commander/MP100 I would configure the top row of 4 switches for presets and the bottom row for FX Bypass.

If I were getting the Ampero I would have the A and B switches set for presets and the C and D switches set for FX bypass.

As affects the Catalyst, each Channel is a Preset, each pair of Channels is a Bank.

6 Banks, 12 Channels. For direct access to all 12 Presets that's 3 Banks on the MC/MP100, 6 Banks on the Ampero, or 12 if using 3 switches for Bypass.

MC/MP100 have a nice function where you can immediately load the first Preset in a Bank when you use the separate Bank UP/DOWN switches to change Banks.

The Ampero requires that you hit two switches concurrently (BIG PITA) to switch Banks, then hit the desired Preset switch.

The Morningstar MC6 has none of the mentioned restrictions. In addition, you can attach an external two button FS to negate the requirement of pressing two switches to Bank UP/DOWN. External switches can do other things, and the on-board switches have multiple programmable "actions"- Press, Release, Long Press, Long Press Release, Double Tap, Double Tap Release, Long Double Tap, Long Double Tap Release and others.

 

These, and all of the many other MC6 features, are certainly overkill for the Cat, but who knows what the Cat MkII will be capable of?

Or if you might expand your MIDI horizons in the future?

Spend a bit extra now, or try to finance a better controller later by selling a function-limited cheap controller at a loss?

 

Is your head exploding yet? :-)

 

EDIT: I just found confirmation from a user (on TGP) that the only way to configure the Ampero is via BT. Also, while the iPhone app works fine, the Android app is flakey. I still recommend it as the best cheap solution.

 

Blackstar Live logic in custom mode

[catanna]

Line 6 friends: Any chance of an update to the Editor software and amp firmware to allow Switch 2 on the LSF 2 (or other compatible 2-button footswitch) to change banks? Combined with the Switch 1 channel toggle, I'd find this much more valuable than being able to enable/disable a channel's single effect. Thanks for considering.

[rd2rk]

On 7/31/2023 at 9:06 PM, catanna said:

Line 6 friends: Any chance of an update to the Editor software and amp firmware to allow Switch 2 on the LSF 2 (or other compatible 2-button footswitch) to change banks? Combined with the Switch 1 channel toggle, I'd find this much more valuable than being able to enable/disable a channel's single effect. Thanks for considering.

 

I highly doubt it. It is what it is, a low budget production, and not likely to draw a lot of engineering resources to updates.

My Powercab 212+ was $1500 and has had exactly one update in, like, 4 years since release?

If it's important to you, for $100 you can get an Ampero Control (MIDI). I believe that this is why they included all the MIDI features, for those for whom the base amp was just not enough.