Line level direct out to FOH way too hot!

[farbarious]

I think this was discussed in a previous topic. The master volume only effects the speaker portion while the individual channel volume for each preset determines the output to your DAW, FOH... etc. My concern is that I'm using pretty much just the clean channel which sounds fantastic and using my drive pedals for dirt. If by decreasing that channels volume will that also effect the cleans headroom being sent to the board? Any help from you out there will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

Mitch

[rd2rk]

On 2/4/2023 at 12:20 PM, farbarious said:

If by decreasing that channels volume will that also effect the cleans headroom being sent to the board?

 

No. Use the Input Level at your DAW (set it to LUFTS if your DAW has that option - I use Reaper which allows that) to get the signal in range for FOH.

Use the Cat's Channel level to get the meter in the range of -18 to -12db with your dirt pedals ON. That should allow whatever FOH board plenty of headroom and allow headroom in your recordings for mixing eq and whatnot.

[Keyblimey]

Same problem with Catalyst XLR Direct Out to Behringer UMC404HD set to line in and then in to Audacity 2.3.3. Signal is always distorted despite adjustments to signal input and clean channel volume. It appears all channels produce distortion. Tried using Presonus 22vsl same thing.

[rd2rk]

No such problems with Scarlett (2nd gen) and Reaper.

I just set the Reaper Track Input Level as described above using the Cat's Channel Volume.

IDK about Audacity, but this method works perfectly with Reaper, Cakewalk and LIVE.

If you're using the Cat as an amp for Helix or HXS, you need to use the Channel Volume in the Helix/HXS preset.

 

THAT SAID - IDK what they were thinking having the XLR Out stuck on LINE level. I very much hope that if they ever do an update they'll change that to MIC level.

No one wants to spend more money to fix this oversight, but here's what I did:

 

AmazonSmile: Shure A15AS Switchable Attenuator (15, 20, 25 dB), Passes Phantom Power : Industrial & Scientific

 

Three levels of attenuation at the flip of a switch. Problem solved!

[jbrengle]

I have had this issue. I always warn the sound guy. If he can’t figure it out just hang a 609. 
Maybe when they do an update there will be fix or adjustment. 

[rd2rk]

On 4/2/2023 at 5:16 PM, jbrengle said:

I have had this issue. I always warn the sound guy. If he can’t figure it out just hang a 609. 
Maybe when they do an update there will be fix or adjustment. 

 

What's a "609"? Google says Empire - Hanging Toilet Tissue Holder - 609

 

As I mentioned previously, you use the Channel Level to set the XLR Out level with the help of the meters in a DAW.

You do this at the same time as you're levelling your presets.

 

OR get the device I referenced if you insist on diming the Channel Level as some folks have suggested.

 

Don't count on a "fix" in a future update for a non-existent problem. One way or another, setting the DI level has to be done on ANY device with that feature, and there's no easy cure for incompetent/inflexible FOH techs with budget systems.

 

 

[DW_is]

Sound engineer here - not a guitarist. Spent a bunch of time with my son's Cat 60 for exactly this issue. Line level too hot & clipping coming out of the amp - regardless of the desk gain-staging. Here's some notes I hope some will find helpful.

 

1. Master Volume knob (as mentioned above) has no bearing on Line-level XLR out.
2. As you'd expect, channel gain, boost and channel volume all DO have an effect on Line level out. What isn't intuitive is that you can easily cause the line-out to clip without it being audible through the cabinet speaker. This is a bit of a shame, since you can't just set-up and save your sounds using the cabinet and your ears - you need to connect to the desk and set-up your preset sounds whilst monitoring both. Desk with headphones helped me to be the most precise.
3. I found that with my son's guitar & the gain/boost set to give a decent clean/dirty sound, setting the channel volume higher than 40% would clip the line out if you hit the strings hard. I typically ask players to keep their guitars at full or close to full volume to get the best S2N ratio and to avoid surprises mid-gig, but guitars have different max volume outputs depending on the pick-up and electronics. So you'll need to experiment with yours at full volume to see typically where your XLR line-out clips.
4. I found that some of the standard presets - as shipped, even after factory reset and firmware update - clipped the XLR Line output. I needed to reduce the channel gain/volume on each preset and re-save each preset - then run the master volume a little higher afterwards to get the same relative volume from the cabinet. It's all solveable with 30 mins playing about - but Line 6 screwed up their factory set-up IMO.
5. Worth noting that each preset - when you recall it - recalls the gain, boost and channel volume (+ all parameters) that you saved it with. Thus, although all the knobs physically stay in the same place when you recall a preset, most of them will have moved virtually - with each preset recall. Once you move a knob, it recalibrates that specific parameter to match that physical knob setting, but this isn't obvious. The Fender Mustang amps have an visual to show this on the display but the Line 6 doesn't - it's far from intuitive.
6. The best way to visualise all this is to use the Catalyst app on a PC or phone and connect to the amp with USB cable. Then you can see on the screen once you change presets what is actually happening - this is when it all made sense to me. I was able to edit & re-save all of the presets with the amp speaker off, using headphones through the desk.
7. Strangely - and this may be in the manual but I couldn't find it - if you have phantom power (+48V) on at the desk, this reduces the line level output of the amp. Some kind of auto-sense between line (off) and mic (+48V) outputs? Ironically, it didn't change where/how the line output clipped, but with +48V a) there was a load more hiss on the amp line-out and b) the line-out volume was lower. Cabinet speaker unaffected.

Bottom line - if you're experiencing this clipping and your desk is set right, you'll need to re-save the amp gain-staging for each preset and it's much easier to do this via the Catalyst app.