HX Effects wet/dry question about the wet feed

[luthierwnc]

Hi All,  I'm slogging my way through setting up a home rig using a tube dry amp and a SS stereo amp for the wet side.  It sounds pretty good but not what I'm after.  I'm trying to supply the wet signal through a speaker line-out.  Where I'm stuck now is separating the dry and the wet.  In my mind's eye the dry goes in the mono input and out Send 1 to the amp.  The speaker line-out goes through phase and isolation adjustments (if needed) and into Return 1.  A Mission volume pedal is first in the wet signal chain.

 

None of the post-return effects should be in the dry send but the tube amp is still picking them up so I'm clearly not isolating the two paths.  I've tried the both the send and return and the FX Loop.  Most of what I've seen for this device assumes the split between the wet and dry comes from internal HXFX switching so there isn't anything about the return coming in from out of the blue.

 

Whadda ya think?  BTW, I'm not married to the line-out idea or anything else so if there is a better way to do this, I'm all ears.

 

Thanks and Merry Christmas, Skip

[rd2rk]

I don't have the HXFX (HXS) so I'm kinda winging it here, but in theory it should be the same.

 

First, it would help to know the make/model of the amp you're using for the dry signal.

 

I'm ASSUMING that by "speaker line out" you mean that your amp has a "speaker emulated line out" in addition to the usual send/return fx loop.

In that case, you would place any FX you want in the DRY amp before an FX SEND 1 block set to INST in Global Settings and with the THROUGH parameter in the SEND 1 Block set to -120db (OFF). SEND 1 goes to the amp's Input. The entire signal up to that point will then be routed into the DRY amp.

ONLY the FX placed BEFORE the FX SEND 1 Block will be in your DRY amp.

 

The amp's "speaker emulated line out" goes to the HXFX RETURN 2 set to LINE in Global Settings.

The FX RETURN 2 Block goes right after the FX SEND 1 Block.

The reason for the separate SEND and RETURN blocks (vs using an FX Loop) is because your amp's input expects an INST level signal, but the amp's "speaker emulated line out" is sending a LINE level signal back to the HXFX.

All WET FX follow the FX RETURN 2 Block, and the HXFX L/R Outputs go to your SS Power amp and speakers.

 

Where I'm a bit confused is that you mention "phase and isolation adjustments"? Is that something that you can do in your amp?

Or are you using an IR in the HXFX, in which case you'd want to DISABLE the speaker emulation at the amp. 

This is why it helps to know the make/model of the amp.

 

[luthierwnc]

Thanks rd2rk,  I attached a diagram showing the various components.  Dirt is in-front of the amp input.  The phase and isolation component is a Lehle P-Split with buttons to reverse the phase and lift the ground if there's a ground loop.  That is fed by a Bray line-out box that splices between the speaker out of the amp and the speaker.  That has a pot on top to adjust the signal level heading towards the HXFX.  Both of those gizmos are passive.  The HX Effects is primarily for ambient effects and the Mission volume pedal is in-front of those.   

 

All my tubes amps are homebrews.  Some of them have FX loops.  Some don't -- part of the reason for using the speaker out.  Scott Henderson uses the same type of arrangement with different dirt boxes and a Boss SE-70 cranked all the way wet for a smaller tube amp.

 

Using both Send/Return blocks makes sense and I'm not using the second one anyway.  If I understood your answer the only physical change will be plugging the cable now in Return 1 into Return 2.

 

I'll give that a shot over the weekend and report back.  Thanks again, Skip   

I'll give that a shot

[rd2rk]

Looks good with the change of FX Return.

Just get the signal chain right and you should be rockin'!

[luthierwnc]

That worked. 

 

Now I have to get sounds I can use.  I can lose some of the pedals in-front too.  Most of what I need to do next is work with the levels of the different effects.  That will largely be making them more subtle.  Thanks again for your advice ... might be back for more.  Merry Christmas, sh

[rd2rk]

Merry Christmas!

You'll be Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree for sure!

[luthierwnc]

Is it common/recommended to put chorus, delay and reverb in some combination of parallel so they don't trainwreck each other in the wet path?  sh

[rd2rk]

IDK about common. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.