Amp top settings V programmed channels

[Newman2612]

Hi.  Got my Catalyst 60 yesterday. I’m in the process of setting up sounds.  In manual mode I made sounds then saved them to 1A and 1B. I thought (from some of the you tube demo videos) that when using programmed channels amp top settings were disabled? But tonight I thought I’d zero all the amp top knobs on the basis they were disabled.  It seems I was wrong. What is the relationship between amp top settings and programmed channels? It doesn't seem to be answered in the manual

[rd2rk]

The panel controls are always active. When you load a preset (all of the "Channels" are simply presets) the current knob settings are overridden by the preset.

That way you can fine-tune your preset and save ONLY the changes - the rest of the preset is not affected by the knob positions.

[Newman2612]

Thanks. Another thing happened last night that I didn't expect. On the Clean preset I was fiddling with the EQ knobs and when I rolled the selection around those same settings were being applied to the presets (??). Again, from you tube demos I thought you simply rolled the selector around.  The manual implies you need to press the manual button then roll it around (??). FWIW I'm coming to this as a VERY long time single channel tube amp user.

 

[rd2rk]

Yes, the knobs are active and will affect what you hear, but the preset is not changed permanently unless you SAVE the changes.

When you switch to MANUAL you hear the actual panel settings. Changes made while in MANUAL mode are not applied to the loaded preset UNLESS you press and hold a channel button, thus SAVING the panel settings to the preset whose button you pressed and held.

[Newman2612]

Thanks.  I need to study it more. (But I do find the relationship between presets and top panel odd). So, how do you hear the "pure" presets if the top panel settings are always active?

 

[rd2rk]

On 2/29/2024 at 11:13 PM, Newman2612 said:

Thanks.  I need to study it more. (But I do find the relationship between presets and top panel odd). So, how do you hear the "pure" presets if the top panel settings are always active?

 

 

They're always active in the sense that you can use them to modify the preset, but they do not affect the preset unless you use them to do so.

 

The easiest way to understand this is to use the Catalyst Edit app.

When you load a preset, compare the panel settings to the settings as they appear in the app. 

They probably do not match.

 

Now change something obvious like the Channel Volume using the panel knob.

When the knob catches up to the setting shown in the app, the setting in the app will start to change.

 

Let's say that the Channel Volume in both A and B in that BANK was at 50%.

If you're in Channel A and you crank the panel knob to 100% you'll see the knob in the app crank to 100% and the preset will get LOUD!

 

Now, in the app, change to Channel B.

Channel B will show its saved Channel Volume of 50% even though the knob is at 100%.

Now switch back to Channel A. The Channel volume will still be at 100% even if, while in Channel B, you changed the knob to 50%.

 

Now, in the app, switch to another BANK, then switch back to the original BANK.

The Channel Volume will be back at 50% (the SAVED value) even though the panel knob is still cranked.

This happens because changes to presets are retained (not saved) between CHANNEL (A/B) changes but are discarded when you change BANKS.

 

NOTE - This works the same way using the FS but DOES NOT (retain changes between channels) when switching via MIDI! Who knows why, just something to be aware of.

 

This sounds confusing but it makes sense (not the MIDI part).

Suppose that while performing you need more volume (or different EQ settings for the room) on one channel, but not the other. You can make that change to the Channel Volume (or tone stack) and it/they will persist between channel changes. Why those changes don't persist between BANK changes is probably a programming/code necessity of some sort. I would think it would be handy, but since all you have to do is press and hold the channel button to SAVE the new configuration that's easy enough to get around and, if you're a graduate of Computer Usage 101 then you've backed up all of your presets on your computer and can restore the originals at will.

You DID back up your presets, right?

[Newman2612]

Thanks, again.  They key takeaways for me were:

“They’re always active in the sense that you can use them to modify the preset, but they do not affect the preset unless you use them to do so” and

 “… changes to presets are retained (not saved) between CHANNEL (A/B) changes but are discarded when you change BANKS”

  

Re: “You DID back up your presets, right?” Yes. 

 

[Newman2612]

BTW (and I don't mean to drag this thread out) I noticed today that if you change to Channel B using the foot switch then open and use the Edit software to change to Channel A the foot switch continues to read as on Channel B.  Although I should note I am using my Marshall two button foot switch.

[rd2rk]

On 3/2/2024 at 8:50 PM, Newman2612 said:

BTW (and I don't mean to drag this thread out) I noticed today that if you change to Channel B using the foot switch then open and use the Edit software to change to Channel A the foot switch continues to read as on Channel B.  Although I should note I am using my Marshall two button foot switch.

 

Yes, the Catalyst FS works that way too. This is also true of MIDI controllers that have LED feedback. You need to pick a method of working and stick to it.

[Newman2612]

Thanks.  One last thing (I hope).  I've played with settings.  This morning I did a factory reset to review the stock presets. On Preset 1 Clean Channel A I can switch between A and B. I then rotated to Boutique and Channel A remained selected.  But pressing the footswitch to B it reverted to Clean Channel B. ? I switched back to A and Rotate to Chime, Channel B went to Clean B again (?).  I left the Channel on B and rotated to Crunch, the foots with sent it back to Chime Channel A, I press again and it went to Dynamic B. Aargh! I thought the A and B would stay in the same preset.  So, how can I use it live if I don't know where I will end up? Or does it simply mean the Marshall footswitch is not compatible (but it's only a basic switch). Help/advice appreciated.

[Newman2612]

PS It's not the footswitch.  I just tested.  Unplugged the footswitch and did it all again, manually pressing A and B and the presents jumped all over the place. It can't be meant to work that way.  Perhaps a firmware refresh is in order?  (I'll explore that in a few minutes).

 

[Newman2612]

I'm back. I "updated" or rather refreshed (as the installed and downloaded were both the same version) the firmware.  Same. Rotating through the presets and swapping between channels A and B. It hops all over the place.  I can't see the rhyme or reason (and I don't think I'm an idiot).  Very frustrating.

[rd2rk]

On 3/3/2024 at 5:25 PM, Newman2612 said:

Thanks.  One last thing (I hope).  I've played with settings.  This morning I did a factory reset to review the stock presets. On Preset 1 Clean Channel A I can switch between A and B. I then rotated to Boutique and Channel A remained selected.  But pressing the footswitch to B it reverted to Clean Channel B. ? I switched back to A and Rotate to Chime, Channel B went to Clean B again (?).  I left the Channel on B and rotated to Crunch, the foots with sent it back to Chime Channel A, I press again and it went to Dynamic B. Aargh! I thought the A and B would stay in the same preset.  So, how can I use it live if I don't know where I will end up? Or does it simply mean the Marshall footswitch is not compatible (but it's only a basic switch). Help/advice appreciated.

 

Rotating the amp knob does NOT change BANKS, it only changes the amp MODEL on that preset, and only temporarily.

To change BANKS you need to hold the MANUAL button until the amp model LED dims, THEN rotate the knob.

 

BANK 1 is not synonymous with the CLEAN amp MODEL.

BANK 2 is not synonymous with the BOUTIQUE amp MODEL.

That's just what the knob says. Once you've held the MANUAL button until the amp knob LED dims, then CLEAN=BANK 1; BOUTIQUE=Bank 2; etc.

Any CHANNEL in any BANK can contain any amp MODEL and be called whatever you want to call it.

That the labels on the amp knob remain the same is one of the reasons the amp costs $400 and not $800.

 

You can think of it as six 2 channel amps.

Or one 12 channel amp.

Or any mathematical variation possible with 6 amp MODELS and 12 presets.

 

But it's best to think of it as a multifx unit with 6 BANKS of 2 PRESETS (called CHANNELS).

 

A BANK is 2 PRESETS which are CALLED channels.

That's all a BANK is.

The FS changes the Presets/Channels in THAT BANK.

As do the A/B Channel Buttons on the PANEL. 

If you're using the FS, to keep the LEDs in sync with the amp, only use the A/B Channel Buttons on the Panel to SAVE modified Presets.

 

The two presets/channels can be as similar as two different tonestack settings of one amp MODEL, or two separate amp MODELS with totally different FX.

 

TO REPEAT - Rotating the amp knob does NOT change BANKS, it only changes the amp MODEL on that preset/channel, and only temporarily.

If you PRESS and HOLD the MANUAL button until the amp knob LED dims and THEN rotate the amp knob, THEN it changes BANKS.

You are now in a completely different BANK with 2 presets/channels..

 

The two channels can be as similar as two different tonestack settings of one amp MODEL, or two separate amp MODELS with totally different FX.

The knobs (except MASTER) change the associated PARAMETERS or MODELS (amp or effect) of whichever channel/preset you're in.

No matter what you do with the amp knob or any other knob (other than MASTER), you've only made a temporary change to Preset A or Preset B in THAT BANK.

To SAVE a Preset/Channel you PRESS and HOLD Channel Button A or Channel Button B until the button LEDs blink.

Unless you press and hold Channel button A or B until the button LEDs blink, those changes will be lost when you change BANKS.

 

You can completely reconfigure a PRESET/CHANNEL with the Panel knobs without making a single permanent change UNLESS you SAVE the Preset as described above.

 

CONFIGURATION TIP: If you're using a BANK as a traditional 2-channel amp - ChA=CLEAN; ChB=LEAD - configure ChA the way you want it for CLEAN, moving all of the knobs (except MASTER) so that it's truly a completely new Preset.

PRESS and HOLD the ChA Button until the button LEDs blink.

Now, without changing anything, PRESS and HOLD the ChB Button until the button LEDs blink.

You now have identical presets on both channels.

 

NOTE - you can also press the manual button to enter manual mode, configure for CLEAN, then perform the SAVE operations described above, then press the ChB button to leave manual mode and configure your LEAD channel..

 

Now configure ChB for LEAD, switching back and forth from A to B to A/B the CLEAN/LEAD sounds.

When you've got the LEAD Channel configured the way you want it, PRESS and HOLD the ChB button until the LEDs blink.

Your CLEAN ChA will still be CLEAN and your LEAD ChB will be dirty as you please!

 

I don't know how much clearer I can make this explanation.

I've been using mine since the day they were released (initial stock at my local GC).

Once the concepts described above are grasped, there's no random behavior. Ever.

The most confusing thing at that point is minor differences in how different interfaces work - panel vs FS vs MIDI.

Since I also have a Helix, I configured my Cat for MIDI control and haven't thought about it since except when trying to explain it to new users, which is when I have to take the FS out of the drawer to remind myself. If there's one thing I could change, it would be for the FS to have 3 buttons with the third used to cycle through the BANKS.

Then I'd NEVER have to teach anyone how to use MIDI! (Who am I kidding!)

 

 

 

 

[Newman2612]

Well ... thank you, once again.  I've identified the Catalyst's greatest weakness - the Pilot's Guide.  A proper manual would have helped.  In particular to point out, as you do, 

that, "BANK 1 is not synonymous with the CLEAN amp MODEL.

BANK 2 is not synonymous with the BOUTIQUE amp MODEL.

That's just what the knob says. Once you've held the MANUAL button until the amp knob LED dims, then CLEAN=BANK 1; BOUTIQUE=Bank 2; etc.

Any CHANNEL in any BANK can contain any amp MODEL and be called whatever you want to call it."

... makes me feel like an idiot.

[rd2rk]

Don't feel too bad. The Pilot's Guide does, indeed, leave much to be desired.

OTOH, it's another reason that the Cat100 costs $400 vs $800.

All-in-all, it's an amazing little amp for the price!

[Newman2612]

On 3/4/2024 at 2:59 PM, rd2rk said:

...

All-in-all, it's an amazing little amp for the price!

That it is. My Marshall is just right for my Blues-Rock band and I get compliments on the sound). I'm rehearsing at present with a new band, a Pretenders tribute band, and the Catalyst is going to be just right for that. They are very different.  Interestingly, I'm finding the Catalyst has more note articulation/definition, especially in chord work (I'm putting that down to digital).  Thanks, again, I appreciate your help.  I don't think I would have seen the nuances of how the Catalyst works otherwise, and would have thrown it against the wall.