HX One Master Level (per preset)

[Enri-]

Hello, do presets always have a master level control, even presets for effects modeled after a pedal that does not have one originally (e.g. the MXR Phase 90) ?

 

I can’t figure this out by reading the manual and not found in the FAQ.

 

Thank you.

[Enri-]

Hello, any owner or expert that might be able to help ?

Thanks!

[silverhead]

Any feature or capability that is not described in the manual does not exist in the device. I don’t see the feature you describe in the manual. Hence, ….

[Enri-]

Thanks for the reply.

In the manual there is a section named Common FX Settings where the level control is actually mentioned. I wasn't sure because this is clearly a list of settings that might or not apply to a specific type of effect (e.g. the Rate control is not likely to be found in a drive effect); on the other hand, a level control may apply to any type of effect.

The description itself leaves rooms for guesses (or hopes).

 

Adjusts the overall output level of the model. You should typically leave this at 0.0dB, unless an output boost or cut is desired when HX One is enabled. Where the original pedal’s level or volume knob behavior doesn’t really apply to dB values, 0.0-10 may be used.

[silverhead]

Yes, there is a Level parameter for many individual FX models. If there is one on the original analog pedal being modeled then it also appears in the digital model.

 

But there is no master/global Level control for all presets, which is what I think you are asking.

[Enri-]

Hello Silverhead, thanks for your availability to help.

 

I think you got right what I am asking, but I’ll try to elaborate, to make sure.

 

To my understanding from the manual, a preset stores this information:

 

- Preset name

- Preset location (0-127)

- Noise Gate settings

- Input Z

- Insert position (when I/O config is configured as “Insert”)

- FX model

- FX model settings (*)

- Exp/Flux assignments

- Preset Level (???)

 

What I would like to know is if a Level control is always available in the FX model settings (*), even if there isn’t one in the original analog pedal being modeled (but I think you answered already), and/or if the Preset Level (the one that I marked above with the three question marks) does exist.

[silverhead]

I don’t see anywhere in the manual where this list of ‘things stored in a preset’ is defined. Can you point me to it? If it’s not defined in the manual then I don’t know where you are getting the idea that there is something called Preset Level (the last item in the list) that is separate from the Level parameter that is included in some but not all ‘FX model settings’. To my understanding there is no such thing.  
 

In short, if the real-world analog pedal being modeled has no Level parameter then neither does the digital model, and there is no separate Preset Level in the model.

 

I don’t think I can be any more clear than that. I think you understand fully but simply wish it were otherwise. It ain’t. Continuing to ask for clarification won’t change anything.

[Enri-]

I don’t see anywhere in the manual where this list of ‘things stored in a preset’ is defined.

The list is nowhere in the manual. As I wrote, I made it upon my understanding.

 

But yes, there is no evidence of the existence of a Preset Level control.

Line6 manuals are EXCELLENT; I was hoping they somehow omitted the information , or that I wasn't understating it correctly.

 

And you are right, I was really wishing it, as it is of utmost importance for me. Same reason why I continued asking; I wanted to be sure.

I ditched the M5 for the lack of this feature and couldn't believe they did not implement it in its successor. Gosh they even put a noise gate and adjustable input impedance and not such a basic thing.

 

Anyway, thanks for your time, I appreciate it.

[silverhead]

Why is this such a deal breaker? What is it that the lack of this control prevents you from doing? If we can get an understanding of that perhaps we can offer an alternative that you can use with the HX One.
 

The HX One allows you to use only one FX model at a time, and it is used in conjunction with other equipment in your setup. The FX model in use at any time either has a Level control or it doesn’t. Those that don’t are actually modeling a real world pedal that also has no Level control. Imagine you were using this analog pedal with no Level control in your setup; how would you handle that?  Presumably you adjust to the lack of this control by adjusting other equipment in your setup. Or would you simply not use any analog pedal without a Level control? If that’s it the answer is simple - just don’t use the HX One digital models either.

[Enri-]

Hello Silverhead, thanks for your interest.

 

Or would you simply not use any analog pedal without a Level control?

 

Selling of pedals without a Level control, either analog of digital, should be forbidden by Law !

 

Kidding…

 

I’ll try to explain why it is important for me, and see if there’s an alternative, as you suggested.

 

I often find that effects just don’t have the correct level; they’re either too low (more often), or too high compared to my non effected signal. It is surely my perception, but that’s it.

Also, I would like the ability to set a different level for specific moments in a song.

In all cases (perceived or wanted level) I would adjust with other equipment as you said; e.g. a clean boost pedal with boost/cut ability, or an EQ, or a looper with level control (e.g. the Boss LS-2).

 

 

The answer is simple - just don’t use the HX One digital models either.

 

I understand that the HX One is not intended to be a micro Helix.

And mind you, I loved the general concept of the M5, and understand Line6 wanted to keep it in the HX One.

On the other hand, such devices can “inherently” do much more.

The M5 itself has a tuner.

The HX One has a tuner, noise gate and adjustable input impedance, a looper, the Flux function and movable loop insert.

None of which are present in the pedals being modeled.

I swear that a Preset level control would be a handy feature that will not change the general concept of the device.

And would allow me to use all the 250+ FX models and not less.

 

You may agree with me that one of the intended uses of devices like the HX One is to replace not one, but a bunch of pedals and reduce the size of the board.

As ideally I would have one “adjuster” pedal for each of my effect pedals, if the HX One had the Level Control, it would be able to replace my (say) 3 pedals and their respective “adjusters”, so 6 pedals, SUPER!

On top of this, if the level control was assignable to the Flux function, it would be possible to change the level in specific moments in a song, just like stomping on a boost pedal, WHOAAA !!

[silverhead]

Thanks for elaborating. I don’t think there’s any alternative using the HX One itself; adjusting the levels of other equipment seems like the best approach. As you say, different pedals have different output levels and that’s just the way it is. It’s not that any of them have ‘incorrect’ levels, just different.

 

The same phenomenon exists with amp modeling. The ‘normal’ output level of a Fender amp is very different from a Marshall amp, and different again for a really hi-gain amp. A common issue with amp modelers like Helix is ‘balancing’ preset levels. The Output block in every Helix preset includes just what you want - a level control for the preset - that is a great tool for balancing presets. But it doesn’t exist in the HX One.

 

Thanks for the interesting (to me at least) discussion!

[Enri-]

Thanks for your reply.

 

I started this topic because I was not getting replies from the Line6 Support (or I have been too impatient).

They eventually replied and stated that All effect models have a level control, including the Script Mod Phase (=MXR Phase 90). It's called "Level" on most of them (on very few models it's "Output" or "Boost"). 

 

That's good news for me!

Even if it's not really 100% of them, I should be able to use the device as I want, so I think I'll buy it.

 

Anyway I agree it's been an interesting discussion, thanks Silverhead!