cw937 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 I have seen a couple questions on this but I am still unclear. If i plug in a preamp/multifx etc into the return and select power amp in mode, does this pass the signal clean? Meaning i bypass any effects and speaker sims? So i could pass IR's etc directly without any changes to the sound? The thought would be to plug in a helix or kemper etc. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 When using the RETURN, setting the MODE Switch to "Power Amp In" bypasses everything**, sending the signal direct to the Power Amp. You can also use the "FX Loop" position, which allows you to use any of the Cat's FX that are placed in the POST position. I use it this way when using the Cat with my HX Stomp to free up blocks/dsp on the HXS. **Poorly documented is the Fletcher-Munson EQ compensation applied to the Power Amp in the .5db attenuator setting. This provides a fuller sound at low volume by boosting specific low and high frequencies. Also, the overall Output Level at ALL attenuator settings is further attenuated by (IIRC) 6db when the MODE Switch is in the "Power Amp In" position. I assume that this is to accommodate preamps/multifx that have only a LINE Level output. Helix/HX multifx outputs can be set to either INSTRUMENT (as expected by most guitar amp FX Loops) or LINE. While you CAN, of course, use IRs when using the Cat's RETURN, I have gotten mixed results. The Catalyst is NOT a FRFR speaker, it is a "Special Design" Eminence guitar speaker. An IR is, functionally, simply a specific EQ curve designed to mimic a specific guitar speaker/cab combination. If it SOUNDS GOOD TO YOU, then go for it. However, the speaker is NOT DESIGNED to be used with IRs. It is a guitar speaker designed to sound good with a range of amp types in an open back cab. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cw937 Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 Thanks for the reply. I plan on probably putting kemper kone speaker in it for my kemper. Sounds like it will do what i need in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandiboy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/10/2025 at 9:02 PM, cw937 said: Thanks for the reply. I plan on probably putting kemper kone speaker in it for my kemper. Sounds like it will do what i need in that case. try the kemper imprints with the stock speaker-- the catalyst as power amp works/sounds very good with kemper helix -- the only issue is the design flaw of it attenuating the signal-- there is ZERO reason for it to do so but the sound is very good and stock speaker is good as well- the kones arent anything special Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/14/2025 at 8:56 AM, mandiboy said: the only issue is the design flaw of it attenuating the signal-- there is ZERO reason for it to do so I've posted this elsewhere in this thread, but here it is again: The POWER AMP IN position of the MODE SWITCH attenuates the signal (in all attenuator settings) by (IIRC) 6db to accommodate preamps/multifx whose output is LINE LEVEL only. The FX LOOP position provides FULL VOLUME for use with devices whose output is INSTRUMENT level, which is what most guitar amp fx loops expect. Helix/HX devices can be set to either LINE or INSTRUMENT level outputs. Check your Kemper manual to see if it also has that feature and set the MODE SWITCH accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandiboy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/14/2025 at 12:02 PM, rd2rk said: I've posted this elsewhere in this thread, but here it is again: The POWER AMP IN position of the MODE SWITCH attenuates the signal (in all attenuator settings) by (IIRC) 6db to accommodate preamps/multifx whose output is LINE LEVEL only. The FX LOOP position provides FULL VOLUME for use with devices whose output is INSTRUMENT level, which is what most guitar amp fx loops expect. Helix/HX devices can be set to either LINE or INSTRUMENT level outputs. Check your Kemper manual to see if it also has that feature and set the MODE SWITCH accordingly. the fx loop can be colored by any fx though that are in the settings on the catalyst amp section though- power amp should be clean power and most multi fx have an attenuator feature as well- the catalyst sounds good as power amp- better than the fender fr 12 for sure but the attenuation is unnecessary and is a design defect -- even if the power amp was hit with line level it would mean using volume to adjust- kemper outputs line level as does helix- and the attenuation is a PITA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/14/2025 at 10:30 AM, mandiboy said: the fx loop can be colored by any fx though that are in the settings on the catalyst amp section though Not if they're OFF. On 1/14/2025 at 10:30 AM, mandiboy said: but the attenuation is unnecessary and is a design defect -- even if the power amp was hit with line level it would mean using volume to adjust- kemper outputs line level as does helix- and the attenuation is a PITA I've already explained the purpose of the attenuation in Power Amp Mode. IDK what the Kemper does, which is why I suggested that OP should RTM. Helix can be set to LINE or INSTRUMENT level, which I've also already noted. Adjusting volume is necessary with all audio devices - that's why they have VOLUME KNOBS. Use your Catalyst any way it works for you but stop spreading misinformation to new and potential users. Yes, it's misinformation. How do I know? Experience AND the fact that I'm active on MANY forums and NO ONE has ever said ANYTHING like the stuff you're saying. ANYWHERE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke_Skellington Posted Wednesday at 08:18 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 08:18 PM I have tried a few different solutions for a power amp for my hx and im finally happy with the cat 200 BUT : The speakers are kind of badly tuned. you need additional eq via the hx and then it sounds great. Or, you can use it standalone (sort of) with that EQ through the fx loop, and the hx just as effects and as a midi controller and it also sounds excellent. I use it normal loop in with the verb on the amp, saving blocks on amps, cabs, and verb or even delays if i use it this way. I havent really decided which i like more, apart from the amps in the hx that the cat doesn't have . there are so many ways to skin a cat these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted Wednesday at 10:08 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 10:08 PM The speakers are tuned perfectly per the goals of the design team - to make them sound as good as they can with the 6 (now 12) different amp models that are included. The problem is NOT that the speakers are "badly tuned". It's that the developer's ears are not YOUR ears. You can make some of the people happy some of the time... I also use my Catalyst with Helix. The myriad ways in which that can be done, including with a ToneX pedal in another FX Loop, is incredible! What a wonderful world of guitar noises we live in! My first amp was a radio sans tuner with a 3inch speaker and a volume knob. Oh, and that hissing, screeching noise? That's not the amp. That's all of the neighborhood cats gathered in front of your house, sharpening their claws. Hope you stocked up on kitty treats! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandiboy Posted Friday at 12:00 PM Share Posted Friday at 12:00 PM On 1/14/2025 at 2:49 PM, rd2rk said: Not if they're OFF. I've already explained the purpose of the attenuation in Power Amp Mode. IDK what the Kemper does, which is why I suggested that OP should RTM. Helix can be set to LINE or INSTRUMENT level, which I've also already noted. Adjusting volume is necessary with all audio devices - that's why they have VOLUME KNOBS. Use your Catalyst any way it works for you but stop spreading misinformation to new and potential users. Yes, it's misinformation. How do I know? Experience AND the fact that I'm active on MANY forums and NO ONE has ever said ANYTHING like the stuff you're saying. ANYWHERE! EVERYONE notices the attwnuation in power amp mode so its clearly a design flaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted Friday at 05:20 PM Share Posted Friday at 05:20 PM I explained the design logic. Are you just being obtuse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandiboy Posted Sunday at 11:53 PM Share Posted Sunday at 11:53 PM On 1/17/2025 at 12:20 PM, rd2rk said: I explained the design logic. Are you just being obtuse? you just cant admit itsca flaw we all know it is. they didnt do it on the sider valve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted yesterday at 01:26 AM Share Posted yesterday at 01:26 AM On 1/19/2025 at 4:53 PM, mandiboy said: you just cant admit itsca flaw Because it's not. You just can't admit that you're wrong. I've explained the logic multiple times and all you can say is "It shouldn't be that way". Obtuse. Google the word. On 1/19/2025 at 4:53 PM, mandiboy said: we all know it is I know that it's not, and you're the only one who thinks it is. Ergo, you are wrong about it being a flaw AND you are wrong about EVERYBODY (google the word) knowing it. That's called "doubling down". On 1/19/2025 at 4:53 PM, mandiboy said: they didnt do it on the sider valve WTH is a sider valve??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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