Community: Message List

Re: Don't return your HD500! Try this...

support@line6.com — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 04:12:22 GMT

Sympathising with Spikey.

I think in the real world, with enough cables and enough cash to buy any effect or amp you wanted, you could re-arrange everything you own in an infinite number of random ways, and in some cases stumble upon a seriously good tone. You may even get a platinum record sales with that tone and decide to keep it your "little secret".

But for me, I like my modelled world to be logical and ordered and established. To illustrate my point, with an imaginary example. If my Tube Screamer Model directly into my AC30 model sounds ****, I want to know why it sounds ****, because I know it sounds great in the real world. I don't want to hear suggestions that I should try putting the Tube Screamer after the Amp Model, and hammer it all out with a Tube Comp and a Studio EQ.

I was reading back over some comments of one of my very first posts about delays, where someone replied that "having a delay before the amp is very unusual" and therefore it would seem the root cause of my problem. I had to pinch myself and check I was still in the real world and not like Tron living inside a Line 6 chip.

Re: Line 6 - Please confirm Input Signal routing

support@line6.com — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:15:39 GMT

There's definitely some odd (algorithmic) signal paths going on in there because I struggle to imagine how it could be done with hard wires.

Re: Jimi Hendrix tone...hook me up!

support@line6.com — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:15:18 GMT

Just passing... and to get you started... Fender Strat Neck and/or middle pickup with either a J-45 or the P-75, and play with the amps before you add anything else. Get the Drive turned up and start jamming with your hands on the amp tone controls. Most of that sound was those amps flat out full blast. Next add a wah pedal. Add U-Vibe later once you've got the groove on the tone. Loads of amp info on this forum.

Re: Line 6 - Please confirm Input Signal routing

support@line6.com — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:58:26 GMT

Thanks all for your understanding; my rare afternoon off work spent tearing my hair out, leaning over my guitar trying to type as I went along. I'm a dab hand with Power Point - so time permitting I'll try and knock up a few slides with graphics - Picture's paint a thousand words.

When they say "The penny dropped" I think my penny fell from outer space.

Re: Line 6 - Please confirm Input Signal routing

support@line6.com — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 22:00:58 GMT

I appreciate all your involvement and thoughts but I will not be pursuaded otherwise. I have proved to myself that what I say above is correct, and that is different to what is described in the manual. I sympathise with everyone who has ran into difficulties with this confusing subject over the last 6 months, as I have done. Channel A is MONO and Channel B is MONO.

Please feel free to do your own tests.

LARGE HELPING OF HUMBLE PIE JUST EATEN BY AX3M4N. Phil - with LEFT Mixer Panned at 0% I hear the Left and Right Delays in the Left and Right Channels. You have my humble apologies.

Apart from feeling a bit stupid, I am happy that most of the tests were valid, and that the subject has been hammered flat in one afternoon sitting. I still believe that Line 6 documentation is confusing to the extreme and that simple signal flow diagrams should be produced by them.

Thanks to all. I'm going to go play some guitar.

Ax3M4n

Re: Line 6 - Please confirm Input Signal routing

support@line6.com — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:48:49 GMT

Yes - without the mixers hard panned you would expect bleed from one channel to the other.

With mixers hard panned there isn't any confusion - nothing coming out of Path/Channel B means there isn't anything coming into Path/Channel B. QED.

If they weren't hard panned what you would hear in Channel B is a copy of Channel A.

Re: Line 6 - Please confirm Input Signal routing

support@line6.com — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:37:54 GMT

Hi Phil,

what I have said stands correct. I will leave it up to readers to prove it to themselves as I have done for the last 4-5 hours. It's up to Line 6 to provide further documentation. I must state I am using a POD HD Desktop, which I am told is identical in processing to the HD500.

To be fair, I tried your last example regarding a Stereo Effect after the mixer block (although this is repeating tests I had tried earlier).

Stereo Effect = Stereo Delay 100% Mix, Left 1 x 300ms Repeat. Right 1 x 600ms Repeat

With Input 2 = Null, there is 1 x 300ms delay out of the LEFT channel only.

With Input 2 = Null and Right Mixer Channel Muted - There is 1 x 300ms Delay in the Left Channel Only.

With Input 2 = Same - There is 1 x 300ms Delay in Left Channel, followed by 1 x 600ms in the Right Channel

With Input 2 = Same and Right Mixer Channel Muted - There is 1 x 300ms delay in the Left Channel Only.

The above was regardless of AMP being present in Channel A or B or Both.

Re: Line 6 - Please confirm Input Signal routing

support@line6.com — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 20:21:42 GMT

Re: 2 Stereo Paths. I totally disagree, this is not true.

You have two mono audio channels - A and B. That's it. I don't call them stereo channels because that implies dual left vs right panning. But the panning is only applied in the Mixer.

"Stereo" Effects have this arrangement (imagine a real world effects stomp box with 2 input and 2 output jacks). If they only have One Cable connected to mono input (A) then this is tied internally to Input B and Output B is tied internally to Output A.

Input A/Mono----------------I*********I---- Output A Mono

I FX I

Input B/Mono----------------I_________I---- Output B Mono

Mono Effects (including Amps) have this arrangment:-

I*********I

Input A+B(Mono)------------I FX I-----Output A+B Mono

I_________I

With Input 1 = Guitar, Input 2 = Null

1 AMP Before Split/T/Y

Input A/Mono----------------I*********I---- Output A Mono A+B Mono in Left Stereo

I FX I A+B mono Input to AMP ----- [AMP] --- A+B MONO OUT--[MIXER}<

Input B/Mono----------------I_________I---- Output B Mono A+B Mono in Right Stereo

NOTE: Input B is NULL so Stereo FX only Outputs Signal A. So only Signal A is heard in Left and Right Headphones. Example: Stereo Effect is Stereo Delay MIX 100%. LEFT Delay = 300ms 1 repeat. RIGHT Delay = 600ms 1 Repeat. In your headphones you hear 1 Repeat of 300ms in Left and Right ears.

1 AMP in A Path Only, AFTER Y Split, Before Mixer.

Input A/Mono----------------I*********I---- Output A Mono -- A mono input to AMP ----- [AMP] --- A MONO OUT--[MIXER] A Mono in Left Stereo Out

I FX I

Input B/Mono----------------I_________I---- Output B Mono ---------------------------------------------------[MIXER] B Mono in Right Stereo Out

NOTE: Input B is NULL so Stereo FX only Outputs Signal A. Only Signal A is heard in LEFT Headphone Only. Example: With above stereo delay setting, you hear 1 Repeat at 300ms in Left Headphone Only.

1 AMP in A Path Only, Stereo FX in A Path Only, Before Mixer.

Input A/Mono----------------I*********I---- Output A Mono -- A mono input to AMP ----- [AMP] --- A MONO OUT-- [MIXER] --- A Mono in Left Stereo Out

\ I FX I /

\-I__Ch B*__I-/

Input B/Mono------------------------------- Output B Mono ----------------------------------------------------[MIXER] --- B Mono in Right Stereo Out

* FX Channel B receives its input from Audio Channel A, and its output is sent to output channel A.

NOTE: Stereo FX is in a MONO Audio Path (Path A), so FX Input B is tied to A , and FX Output B is tied to A. In same example you hear 2 x Delays (300ms & 600ms) in the LEFT Headphone only.

CONCLUSION:

You can continue with further experiments, with Input 2 set to SAME. But you will still see that there are only TWO mono channels through the unit - A and B. (TIP: try AMP A Clean and AMP B Dirty with Stereo delay as mentioned above).

- Path A is not a Stereo Audio Channel - it is a Mono Audio Channel.

- Path B is not a Stereo Audio Channel - it is a Mono Audio Channel

Path B is always tied to Input 2 except when Input 2 = Same.

Please can Line 6 make some official amendment to their documentation, preferably including REAL SIGNAL FLOW Diagrams, covering all combinations and correctly worded explanations.

Re: Line 6 - Please confirm Input Signal routing

support@line6.com — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 18:40:04 GMT

Hi Silverhead,

here is my actual problem (see below). The response to this latest problem is "Make Input 2 = Same". Input 2 had been set to "Mic - Trim Off", because my problem before was that my Guitar (normal standard USA Strat) was overdriving most amp models (AC30 particularly, no FX, Master @50%-60%, Bias High) with Drive set to only 20% -30%. Line 6 solution was to NOT have "SAME" as input 2 because this doubled guitar signal input power. Silverhead - I appreciate your assistance, but clearly you are as confused as I am. Q Filter it seems is a Stereo Output effect, but only if it receives a Stereo Input (Input 1 Guitar, Input 2 Same). So in problem below, with chain as described, the Q filtered Guitar signal is overdriven in the A path, and hopefully just pitch shifted +1 Octave in the B path (not even pre-amped). But it doesn't get pitch shifted. I hear "quiet, distant, distorted, delayed guitar in my RIGHT headphone", and Strong Distorted Delayed Guitar in my LEFT Headphone. Mixer is Panned HARD Left and Hard Right.

I set Input 2 to SAME - And Channel B does come alive with pitch shifted guitar (clipped Grrrrrr). But now everything is louder and my cleverly adjusted "overdriven" tone in the LEFT Channel is now just MUDDY MUSH.

Now - anyone following this - please go to bottom of thread, for another post on whether or not A and B Channels are independent and Stereo of their own right.

Problem (Copied from other thread)

Chain is this:-

Q Filter (fixed wah) - A/B splitter (or Y Splitter if you want to call it that) ->

Channel A --> Screamer --> Classic Dist ---> Delay w/mod ---> A30TB --> Mixer Left

Channel B --> Pitch Glide ---> No Amp --- Mixer Right

Mixer Output ---> Reverb --> USB Output

Previously Pitch Glide was following Q Filter and before A/B Splitter. On/off is set to EXP Toe switch, Exp 1 controls pitch.

Problem: When in parallel path there is no effect - the pitch glide does nothing like it isn't there. Mixer Right is set to 0dB 100% Right. Input 1 = Guitar, Input 2 = Mic, trim pot down.

Re: Pitch Glide not working in Parallel Path (Channel B)

support@line6.com — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:52:55 GMT

Thanks again Jim for your interest. I suspect that changing Input 2 to Same will get the Pitch Glide working, but from experience, I know I will also have to re-adjust all my EQ's and Levels on effects and amp sim, because the difference in Tone is significant. It's all the more frustrating having spent weeks already on the Mono tone fine tuning it exactly to the tone I hear on the song I am trying to cover.