Community: Message List - So I got my 59 today...

Re: So I got my 59 today...

support@line6.com — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 04:03:44 GMT

digiprod wrote:

Line6RichRenken wrote:

laelamiles wrote:

Sure, but our QC anxiety regarding JTV does not just stem from the issues raised in this one particular thread. It's a stream of issues.

If Line6 internally has the mindset that "this is a $700 guitar" and it's OK if the $700 guitar gets a little scratched up during servicing or it's OK if the replacement switch looks sloppy, then that is worrying. If you are telling us these things don't worry you personally on your personal guitars, I'd like to know that your personal disposition on cosmetics isn't impacting my guitar when Line6 services it.

I will dig up the wrench thread later for you. I know about the initial missed wrenches... thanks for explaining that and I totally understand it. I don't think it's a big deal at all.

First this part. Again, I didn't know I was talking with someone who was talking about the cracked necks or the scratches. I was only talking about the pictures posted here by the OP.

Absolutely I am not saying that sloppy work is ok at any price. I wouldn't say that if you brought a $99 squire to someone to set up and they gouged the guitar that is would be ok cause it is $99 bucks. Not at all.

Oh, again, let me clarify about me and my bass. Those small flaws would be acceptable and expected on a sub-grand bass. They were not big things, but at 4 grand and an 8 month wait, most guys would not have said, whatever. I am just saying I did. So, again, to be clear for anyone reading and not following along the whole road, if the guitar in this post with the mineral stain in the maple were hanging with many, the OP could have his choice for another and a guy like me would come along and buy this one. Only talking about the one in the pictures. I just looked at the OP pics one more time. The mineral stain is easy to see, not sure what the binding issue is, minus it being asymmetrical. I wish I could sit with him and look at it. My personal disposition does not affect the standards I set up with World. At all, my disposition as a luthier and a guy who has been in this industry a long time set the standard. And on top of that, I have the quality standard papers from 2 BIG companies and our standards are higher.

Sorry again about the wrenches.
Rich, much of the push back comes from the statement about it being just a $700 guitar from the maker. It would be far better to say that you are spending $1300 + for this guitar that has advanced electronics and is a great value.
========== Ok, You are spending $1300 plus for this guitar that has advanced electronics and is a great value.

Explaining that the scratches, gouges, bad binding issues, switch that was ill fitted we all saw on the forum was NOT acceptable.
======= I said this about 8 times now. HOW MANY WAYS CAN I SAY IT. I am not talking about the other forums. I am talking about the pictures IN THIS FORUM. Ok?

I am certainly not trying to words in your mouth.
========= You putting words in my mouth.

But when you made the $700 statement it comes off bad and makes us think "well you have to accept this poor build quality" because that is all its worth... and we are giving you a circuit board that does cool things and its worth $700. We all need to understand Line 6's QC and what is acceptable and what is not. As you stated, even $99 guitar with a gouge is NOT OK.
=========PRS SE, GET IT, GO AND CHECK OUT A BUNCH. That is what is acceptable. I DID NOT SAY GOUGES WERE ACCEPTALBE, NOT ONCE NOT EVER. OUR QUALITY SPEC IS INDUSTRY STANDARD.

MINERAL STAINS, BINDING THAT IS MADE FROM A GOOD LOOKING PIECE OF FLAME MAPLE VENEER THAT MATES TO A SOLID MAPLE TOP THAT YOU CAN SEE IS ACCEPTABLE, ASSEMETRICAL BINDING ON A HEADSTOCK IS ACCEPTALBE.

I can't be any more clear. So, with respect, I have too do other work. Please if you are reading this, and don't know what is going on, go back and read through the thread.

I was almost with you. I read these two paragraphs and it is though I have not said a thing. This doesn't look at all like what I have said here. Not in the least. Nada. So, one more time.

See above after =================

Re: So I got my 59 today...

support@line6.com — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 03:52:53 GMT

ozbadman wrote:

Line6RichRenken wrote:

Absolutely I am not saying that sloppy work is ok at any price. I wouldn't say that if you brought a $99 squire to someone to set up and they gouged the guitar that is would be ok cause it is $99 bucks. Not at all.
Interestingly Rich, I recently bought a Squier Mini Strat for $99 for a friend's children and the finish, setup, everything was top notch (although obviously they used cheaper and smaller parts).

David.

personal sidenote: Thanks also for checking out my 59 yesterday.

I bet it was not made from tonewoods.

Re: So I got my 59 today...

support@line6.com — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 03:47:08 GMT

Man, our forums are hard to search though. I will cut and past the post from the original 111 page forum about the stuff about it being a certain guitar plus the electronics when I find them. If you guys want to find them or remember other places I posted it, I will.

It is a world class under a grand made in Korea guitar. And the variax is unrivaled in technology guitars. The two worlds came together and that is the JTV. I can't be any clearer.

Re: So I got my 59 today...

support@line6.com — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 03:45:12 GMT

Line6RichRenken wrote:

laelamiles wrote:

Sure, but our QC anxiety regarding JTV does not just stem from the issues raised in this one particular thread. It's a stream of issues.

If Line6 internally has the mindset that "this is a $700 guitar" and it's OK if the $700 guitar gets a little scratched up during servicing or it's OK if the replacement switch looks sloppy, then that is worrying. If you are telling us these things don't worry you personally on your personal guitars, I'd like to know that your personal disposition on cosmetics isn't impacting my guitar when Line6 services it.

I will dig up the wrench thread later for you. I know about the initial missed wrenches... thanks for explaining that and I totally understand it. I don't think it's a big deal at all.

First this part. Again, I didn't know I was talking with someone who was talking about the cracked necks or the scratches. I was only talking about the pictures posted here by the OP.

Absolutely I am not saying that sloppy work is ok at any price. I wouldn't say that if you brought a $99 squire to someone to set up and they gouged the guitar that is would be ok cause it is $99 bucks. Not at all.

Oh, again, let me clarify about me and my bass. Those small flaws would be acceptable and expected on a sub-grand bass. They were not big things, but at 4 grand and an 8 month wait, most guys would not have said, whatever. I am just saying I did. So, again, to be clear for anyone reading and not following along the whole road, if the guitar in this post with the mineral stain in the maple were hanging with many, the OP could have his choice for another and a guy like me would come along and buy this one. Only talking about the one in the pictures. I just looked at the OP pics one more time. The mineral stain is easy to see, not sure what the binding issue is, minus it being asymmetrical. I wish I could sit with him and look at it. My personal disposition does not affect the standards I set up with World. At all, my disposition as a luthier and a guy who has been in this industry a long time set the standard. And on top of that, I have the quality standard papers from 2 BIG companies and our standards are higher.

Sorry again about the wrenches.

Rich, much of the push back comes from the statement about it being just a $700 guitar from the maker. It would be far better to say that you are spending $1300 + for this guitar that has advanced electronics and is a great value. Explaining that the scratches, gouges, bad binding issues, switch that was ill fitted we all saw on the forum was NOT acceptable.

I am certainly not trying to words in your mouth. But when you made the $700 statement it comes off bad and makes us think "well you have to accept this poor build quality" because that is all its worth... and we are giving you a circuit board that does cool things and its worth $700. We all need to understand Line 6's QC and what is acceptable and what is not. As you stated, even $99 guitar with a gouge is NOT OK.

Re: So I got my 59 today...

support@line6.com — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 03:43:54 GMT

Line6RichRenken wrote:

Absolutely I am not saying that sloppy work is ok at any price. I wouldn't say that if you brought a $99 squire to someone to set up and they gouged the guitar that is would be ok cause it is $99 bucks. Not at all.

Interestingly Rich, I recently bought a Squier Mini Strat for $99 for a friend's children and the finish, setup, everything was top notch (although obviously they used cheaper and smaller parts).

David.

personal sidenote: Thanks also for checking out my 59 yesterday.

Re: So I got my 59 today...

support@line6.com — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 03:39:11 GMT

laelamiles wrote:

White switch:

Black switch:

Finally, my sincere thanks to you for keeping the lines of communication open. I really appreciate it and it helps a lot.

These look like two different guitars. So I don't know what I am looking at, you will have to let me know.

Now, I just happen to be holding a 59 for a beta guy and the switch is repaired and I noticed that the nut is way smaller than the hole. There should at least be a bigger washer on it so it fills the space of the old switch. Is that what you mean? I am sure on future builds they will adjust that.

Otherwise I am not sure.

Re: So I got my 59 today...

support@line6.com — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 03:33:49 GMT

laelamiles wrote:

Sure, but our QC anxiety regarding JTV does not just stem from the issues raised in this one particular thread. It's a stream of issues.

If Line6 internally has the mindset that "this is a $700 guitar" and it's OK if the $700 guitar gets a little scratched up during servicing or it's OK if the replacement switch looks sloppy, then that is worrying. If you are telling us these things don't worry you personally on your personal guitars, I'd like to know that your personal disposition on cosmetics isn't impacting my guitar when Line6 services it.

I will dig up the wrench thread later for you. I know about the initial missed wrenches... thanks for explaining that and I totally understand it. I don't think it's a big deal at all.

First this part. Again, I didn't know I was talking with someone who was talking about the cracked necks or the scratches. I was only talking about the pictures posted here by the OP.

Absolutely I am not saying that sloppy work is ok at any price. I wouldn't say that if you brought a $99 squire to someone to set up and they gouged the guitar that is would be ok cause it is $99 bucks. Not at all.

Oh, again, let me clarify about me and my bass. Those small flaws would be acceptable and expected on a sub-grand bass. They were not big things, but at 4 grand and an 8 month wait, most guys would not have said, whatever. I am just saying I did. So, again, to be clear for anyone reading and not following along the whole road, if the guitar in this post with the mineral stain in the maple were hanging with many, the OP could have his choice for another and a guy like me would come along and buy this one. Only talking about the one in the pictures. I just looked at the OP pics one more time. The mineral stain is easy to see, not sure what the binding issue is, minus it being asymmetrical. I wish I could sit with him and look at it. My personal disposition does not affect the standards I set up with World. At all, my disposition as a luthier and a guy who has been in this industry a long time set the standard. And on top of that, I have the quality standard papers from 2 BIG companies and our standards are higher.

Sorry again about the wrenches.

Re: So I got my 59 today...

support@line6.com — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 03:03:01 GMT

Sure, but our QC anxiety regarding JTV does not just stem from the issues raised in this one particular thread. It's a stream of issues.

If Line6 internally has the mindset that "this is a $700 guitar" and it's OK if the $700 guitar gets a little scratched up during servicing or it's OK if the replacement switch looks sloppy, then that is worrying. If you are telling us these things don't worry you personally on your personal guitars, I'd like to know that your personal disposition on cosmetics isn't impacting my guitar when Line6 services it.

I will dig up the wrench thread later for you. I know about the initial missed wrenches... thanks for explaining that and I totally understand it. I don't think it's a big deal at all.

Here is the white switch compared to the black switch. I'm not even going to tell you what I think is wrong with the black switch... please let me know if you can see the problem for yourself. If not, I'll let you know in a follow up.

White switch:

Black switch:

Finally, my sincere thanks to you for keeping the lines of communication open. I really appreciate it and it helps a lot.

Re: So I got my 59 today...

support@line6.com — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 02:49:20 GMT

laelamiles wrote:

Rich, if we put the quality of the guitars coming out of World aside, Line6 is also doing a horrible job here, QC wise.

The blame would rest squarely with Line6 and not World here..

We have seen the before-and-after pictures of the 59 pickup switch and it does not look pretty.
We have heard of a horrible case where the guitar came back with "hum" issues.
We have heard of another horrible case where the guitar was all scratched up during the pickup switch replacement.

There are more complaints (Line6 ignoring requests for wrenches, etc), but just focussing on QC here.

This is worrying and pertinent because Line6 is doing all the work of fixing the original defective 59 guitars. I am just hoping that the guitar I get is not botched up by Line6 techs in addition to the work that World is doing.

Btw, we can't even argue that a "small" fraction of guitars serviced by Line6 is having issues... you guys already used the "small" fraction card when you told us about the 59 defect. Now even that "small" fraction of guitars have reports of botched service being done on them.

FIRST, I AM ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE PICTURES IN THIS THREAD by the OP, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE QC ISSUES IN GENERAL. K?

=====================================================================================

Now, let me answer you general QC point. You are right. These are our fault. We are working on it.

Where are the before and after pics of the 59 switch? I missed that. Heard about it, I would like to see.

The hum issue was a simple fix, it just sucked that the guitar had to go back and forth.

The scratched up during switch replacement is being looked at still.

Who at Line 6 is ignoring requests for wrenches? I know a couple were missing. That is totally on me actually. I think I personally missed putting wrenches in a few guitars I set up. There you go, not only is Line 6 saying they messed up forgetting the wrenches, I am saying I messed up forgetting the wrenches. But who was ignoring the request where? I would like to have that stopped.

The techs are awesome and working under incredible pressure. One in particular had gone above and beyond the call of duty to help get these guitars out, seriously, without him, none, and I mean, none of you would have a guitar at all.

There are way more guitars out there than problems. I can tell you that. I can tell you for sure that the return rate is low. The big one was the 59s from the Dec shipment.

Re: So I got my 59 today...

support@line6.com — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 02:10:21 GMT

Rich, if we put the quality of the guitars coming out of World aside, Line6 is also doing a horrible job here, QC wise.

The blame would rest squarely with Line6 and not World here..

We have seen the before-and-after pictures of the 59 pickup switch and it does not look pretty.
We have heard of a horrible case where the guitar came back with "hum" issues.
We have heard of another horrible case where the guitar was all scratched up during the pickup switch replacement.

There are more complaints (Line6 ignoring requests for wrenches, etc), but just focussing on QC here.

This is worrying and pertinent because Line6 is doing all the work of fixing the original defective 59 guitars. I am just hoping that the guitar I get is not botched up by Line6 techs in addition to the work that World is doing.

Btw, we can't even argue that a "small" fraction of guitars serviced by Line6 is having issues... you guys already used the "small" fraction card when you told us about the 59 defect. Now even that "small" fraction of guitars have reports of botched service being done on them.