Community: Message List - Inserting a Direct Box in a 4CM Setup

Re: Inserting a Direct Box in a 4CM Setup

support@line6.com — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 16:10:23 GMT

I haven't tried it I'm afraid. My HD is currenly taking a break from serious use while I try and find the time and cohones to fix up some unreliable footswitches. My current music life is focussed on an impending acoustic solo gig and some band committments where I use pedals. That and work. And kids. And life. And (occassionally) sleep.

I have no idea what the difference is between the parametric and studio EQs when the gain is boosted .... something apparently. Looks like at least one of them is not truly neutral. Only way to tell is to break out a spectrum analyser I guess.

Re: Inserting a Direct Box in a 4CM Setup

support@line6.com — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 15:27:49 GMT

Jim? Any comments on the EQs?

Cheers!

Re: Inserting a Direct Box in a 4CM Setup

support@line6.com — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 16:30:14 GMT

Hi Jim and Luke,

The Pinnacle is mechanic true bypass, just for the record. Now I don´t have issues with tone suck, I wanted to comment on something that you Jim suggest in your guide, that is to put a Studio EQ before the FX LOOP.

Despite the DI Box works well, I sometimes use this trick to add gain or make tighter the low end of some amp models, for example the Plexis.

But what I wanted to comment, is that I "discovered" that you can use too a Parametric EQ for the same thing, with all standard settings, raising the Gain to the max. This is very different to the Studio EQ + 12 db increase, which adds more bass and is darker. When you add the Parametric, the tone is more trebly and the low ends get tighter. Check it out!

Cheers!

Re: Inserting a Direct Box in a 4CM Setup

support@line6.com — Sat, 02 Mar 2013 16:24:55 GMT

Yep, that makes sense...I think your approach is really the best way to go about it. Keeping the console and venue's trim at a constant (500's Master volume as well) and working off of the Line6 mixer only, once everything else is dialed in. I own the mixer, so keeping things consistent shouldn't be an issue. Even though I wanted to keep this acoustic project simple, I find myself really pushing to get a standout tone. The Venue and HD500 should open up as bunch of new tonal possibilities. Thanks a ton Jim for sharing your knowledge and insight. It is very much appreciated

Re: Inserting a Direct Box in a 4CM Setup

support@line6.com — Sat, 02 Mar 2013 01:31:18 GMT

Gotcha. The setup I have document is intended for output to an amplifiers' power amp stage. The objective is to get the levels as close as possible to unity to try and ensure that the power amp does not clip. The signal level is preserved througout the patch so the FX send to the Venue Input should be OK. I guess it is possible that the signal coming out of the POD is a bit 'hot' for the Venu'es FX return but, on paper, I don't think there should be a problem. In reality though, you might try dropping the output from the POD by a few db (-3 to -6) using the POD Mixer and see if that cleans things up.

I would personally avoid trimming the levels with the master control and prefer to use the Pod's Mixer level cause that is a bit more 'reproducable' and means you don't have to worry about the master being in just the 'right' position. Nothing wrong with pulling back the master a bit though if it cleans things up on the night.

Personally, I would try and get some time with the mixer, or a similar one. I would start up with the Venue alone, without the POD hooked up. I would wind up the trim on the desk until I could discern a tonal change/clipping when I strummed hard then wind the trim back until things just cleaned up when I played my hardest. Some desks have a 'clip' led on the channel and that would be very useful for this testing.

I would then keep the desk levels as they are and hook in the POD. I would again play hard and see if I could hear clipping. If not I would test that clipping kicks in when I wind the trim up the level where it clipped before. If the setup clipped at that level then personally I would be satisfied that the POD setup was correct and levels were correct. I would thereafter look to set the desk trim correctly when I gigged.

However, if when i hooked the pod in, things immediately started distorting then i would reduce the Pod mixer level until the distortion disappeared. That would then be my reference level for patches.

Conversely, if there was no clipping with the Pod when I initially hooked it up but, then when I boosted the desk trip to the level where it clipped without the POD in the chain and it did not clip then, then I would increase the POD mixer level until it did clip.

Does that all make sense?

Re: Inserting a Direct Box in a 4CM Setup

support@line6.com — Fri, 01 Mar 2013 18:56:12 GMT

Hi Jim, That's exactly how I'm running it. My issue is more along the line of levels (Venue input gain, Mixer input gain and HD500 Master) I saw in your setup guide that you recommend the HD500's master @ 100%. However, the venue only utilizes an input gain when running an XLR out to the mixer (no master volume). So I'm thinking maybe a balance between the HD Master and the Venue's trim might be the way to go. I've noticed when I kick in overdrive or compression, the venues gain structure is effected as well.... I hope that makes some sense... just trying to get a good base to go by

Re: Inserting a Direct Box in a 4CM Setup

support@line6.com — Fri, 01 Mar 2013 17:44:29 GMT

Ah! So the Venue has a built in FX loop too. Cool, that means we can pretend it is an amp!

I think the cabling would go ...

Guitar --> Pod Input

Pod FX Send --> Venue Input

Venue FX Send --> Pod FX Return Left

Pod 1/4 Out Left --> Venue FX Return

Venue XLR Out --> Mixer.

Levels .... ooh !

The Venue Manual here suggests that the FX Loop is running at around Amp/stomp level (-10dBV) which is good because you should be able to run with the 4CM setup here . Just replace the word 'amplifier' with 'Venue' throughout and include the final Venue --> Mixer cable.

Re: Inserting a Direct Box in a 4CM Setup

support@line6.com — Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:48:09 GMT

Thanks for the reply Jim, I'm using the Venue as the preamp (in place of an amps preamp) so I can insert fx before it. I'm basically trying to incorporate compression, overdrive (Monte Montgomery style) into my sound before the loop and mod fx after. I rehearsed with this setup last night and I'm trying to wrap my head around a good compromise of HD500, venue and mixer levels.

Re: Inserting a Direct Box in a 4CM Setup

support@line6.com — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:25:55 GMT

What are you looking for the LR Baggs DI to do?

.... Acoustic, HD500, DI and Mixer ...

If this is the extent of your signal chain, and there is no amp involved then I don't see a role for 4CM. 4CM is a method for using the pre-amp of your amplifier (i.e. the bit that gives you most of the tone shaping) when you want to use that instead of the POD's amp modelling.

Re: Inserting a Direct Box in a 4CM Setup

support@line6.com — Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:40:09 GMT

Jim, What are your thoughts on connecting an LR Baggs Venue DI into the mix using the 4cm? I'm running a live acoustic setup - Acoustic, HD500, DI and Mixer. Any help would be appreciated