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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linux
pbear, there is lots of excellent freeware. Open Office, AVG, Commodo Firewall, Zone Alarm, Avast, Firefox, Thunderbird, ect.
I don't leave the pc on at night, so defragging, would be done when I'm trying to use it. Same with virus scans. If you really need to use your pc dude, a virus can totally wreak havoc, depending on what it is.
I am starting to get bored with this Windows vs Linux crap. Again, this thread was about how those who would like to use Line 6 with Linux are unhappy with the lack of support. I don't know with absolute certainty, but I would bet Line 6 would require the use GPL licensed code to properly intergrate with a Linux system.
I like the stability of Linux. I like the low latency kernel in Ubuntu Studio. And I like that I don't have to maintain the system with defragging and constant virus scans. I am primarily a Debian user, Ubuntu I am just beginning to use for audio.
And yes, I know that OSX and beyond are based in part on BSD. BSD is licensed differently than Linux. Windows contains some BSD code. Some will undoubtadly dispute this. Don't bother.. Its perfectly legal under BSD's license.
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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linux
"It took me 3 weeks to get a decent system running because 2 versions I tried I did have problems with. There were bugs. In Ubuntu Studio 8.04 the Jack server simply did not work, and without it the system is useless. I then tried the newest version, version 9.10, and Jack worked fine. But 9.10 failed to fully detect my M-Audio card. I don't have the time to work on this full time, so the easy fix was to try version 9.04, which someone posted stating it detected their M-Audio card and that Jack worked fine.
It did, and that system works well. It has a ways to go as far as consistancy goes, from distro to distro. But the version I am using works well, and it didn't cost me anything."
see, to me this just doesn't sound like the description of a "stable" system. but i agree with you that there is great free software available but you can't argue that all of it is good and you can't blame a "virus" for all of the bad stuff out there.
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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linux
Well the problem wasn't a stability issue. The Jack server was buggy in the 8.04 release. They fixed that in subsequent releases. The other problem was my sound card wasn't properly detected. Another bug. Version 9.04 has no bugs I can see.
For a free system, installed on a computer built from spare parts, its not a bad set up. For home use, you cannot beat it for that price. I am not going to compare Ardour to Sonar that I have installed on Windows 7, but so far, its doing everything I need it to do. I'm happy with it.
And no, on XP, I had an app called Win Patrol, and with that I could limit the start up programs. When I recorded I even shut down the firewall. I still experienced crashes. Dispite backing each session up to usb, {finally I learned the hard way..} when it crashed, I would lose what I was working on. I don't blame crashes only on a viral load. I mostly blame them on the unstable and flakey nature of Windows. Even my new Windows 7 installation locks up when I use Adobe InDesign. But 7 is much better at unlocking itself than XP. What can I say? I'd like to run Adobe on Linux...
Linux is stable. I like it.
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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linux
Dude....this is way off topic but any flavour of linux is considerably more stable than any form of MShaft OS. Linux may have a low adoption rate on the desktop but in the business world it's another story. Most genomic research, special effects rendering and web services is done with linux.
I also installed Ubuntu Studio like Captainbob using an MAudio card but I actually tried Windows first assuming that it's fully supported and I would have a proof point that all the hardware was working properly. Installed fresh XP, loaded all the stupid drivers, applied spk 2, then spk 3 and guess what....couldn't get the MAdio card to work properly. I happened to install Ubuntu Studio 9.04 first and it worked perfectly on first boot. Jack works fine for me but does freak out from time to time, probably because it's an old machine and only has 1GB memory. I'm running Rosegarden and recording MIDI no problem. Have not tried audio recording yet but am planning to upgrade to latest AMD 64bit hardware then will give it a try.
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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linux
I have Ubuntu Studio 9.04, and it does work well. The problem is that the setup process is not user friendly at all. And by setup, I dont mean installation, that's actually a snap with the gui install most linux distros come with now. By setup, I mean setting up the recording studio aspect. Your casual or even intermediate computer user will have a ton of problems that they will struggle with indefinitely. Once it gets it going, though, it's smooth sailing. There are third party drivers for some L6 products out there, but the products that work with them are very limited. What I did was get my Presonus Inspire firewire interface going with freebob, and after some tweaking I got Jack to recognize it and I was good to go. Latency is almost non-existant, and stability is great. I do admit, though, that I still do most of my recording with Windows 7 because it's so much more user friendly.

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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linux
Nah, it sure doesnt. But check our Ardour II, good stuff, and has many of the features ProTools has. I'm not trying to convert anyone, just dont want people to keep their eyes closed. Linux is a great OS, it's virtually virus free, and CAN be more stable than any MS OS out there, if you know what you are doing. That's always the kicker. People that don't know what they are doing give it a 5 minute tryout until they cant get it to work like Windows, and out the door it goes. The thing with Linux is that it isnt Windows, and therefore cant be used as such. What it is is a streamlined, less bulky OS that can do what Windows does, but in a different way. I personally like it, but dont use it as my main OS. Why? Because I know that I cant make it run correctly, yet. It's fun to try, though.

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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linuxfblamaur
fblamaur, thats right. Hollywood uses Linux extensively in movie production.
I cannot even tell you how many times I've called the insurance company, or some city dept, and they tell me I have to wait, because their computer is acting up. I always ask them, "Is it Windows?" and the answer is always yes. These lockups kill production time. How much money in license fees are city, state and federal government agencys paying Microshaft to run all those pcs using Windows? Thats a lot of wasted money at a time when they are telling us they are doing all they can to cut budgets.
The new owner of our printing company comes from the IT world. He is a Windows programmer. He bought our company as a side investment. We were running Macs under the previous owner, but the new owner hates Mac. I asked him why, and he just said because he doesn't know Mac. He also told me he hates Linux, because in college in the 90's he fooled with it and didn't like it.
So he's another one, he bases his beliefs on Linux from an experience with it he had 15 years ago. He told me Linux was hard to install. Really?
But he hates Mac too, because he doesn't know Mac, thats the reason he gave. I suspect thats where a lot of resistance toward Linux comes from, people don't like what they are not familiar with. Anyway, so our new owner replaced all the macs with brand new HPs. The first round of new computers came with Vista installed. The second round of new pcs came with Windows 7 installed. I'll walk into the graphics dept, and its common to see someone sitting there staring at the floor. I ask, Whats the matter?" and they tell me, The computer is locked up." Brand new Vista, brand new Seven, installed by HP, maintained by an IT pro with a degree from MIT...locked up. I'll go to use the pc at the customer service desk...locked up. Windows fans can deny there are major issues all they want, but we all know these problems are very common place.
There was a time when the horse and buggy was more reliable than the new invention called the horseless carriage. Things change, not always right away, but they change continuously. A unix style platform is far superior to a Windows platform, and as these alternative systems develop further, they will become more popular.
Lastly, when talking about stability, my primary computer is running Debian Squeeze. Squeeze is the testing version of Debian, and because its in the testing phase of development, its considered unstable. Debian Lenny is the current stable release
Squeeze is so stable, it runs without a hickup, never a single problem with it. Everything works flawlessly. And running on top of my Asus/Corsair/ AMD 64 bit hardware its incredibly fast too. It never gives me the problems with lockups that I get from Seven, and its faster. And after I lost electric power one day at home when I was using Windows 7 and Debian at the same time, Debian recovered and started right up. Seven, floundered and had to go into recovery. There are better ways of doing things.
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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linux
Your not using Alsa?
Studio 9.04 comes with Alsa, did you swap out Alsa for Freebob?
If so...cool. Never ran with freebob.
For me, 9.04 set right up. Jack started when I clicked Start. But I do know what you are talking about with configuration. 9.04 was easy, the only thing I had to do was open the Envy24 control, and make sure the volumns were up, and that the right drivers were selected. The main problem with the M-Audio card is thats its considered exotic. The system has a hard time with the 4 inputs and outputs. Once its detected, it sounds great.
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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linuxfblamaur
captainbob wrote:
I'll walk into the graphics dept, and its common to see someone sitting there staring at the floor. I ask, Whats the matter?" and they tell me, The computer is locked up." Brand new Vista, brand new Seven, installed by HP, maintained by an IT pro with a degree from MIT...locked up. I'll go to use the pc at the customer service desk...locked up. Windows fans can deny there are major issues all they want, but we all know these problems are very common place.It's not that I doubt you, but I smell large amounts of hyperbole here. An IT pro with a degree from MIT? And he's working desktop support? People continually staring at the ground because Windows is locked up when they're doing graphics work? Even in a large company like the one I work for, where desktop computer support is handled by people living on two other continents that certainly don't have degrees from MIT, and our Windows desktop images are less than optimal, there are just not these kinds of problems. Certainly not in customer service either, where we have thousands of customer locations with dozens of computers at each one. All running Windows. If problems like this were so rampant, it wouldn't have been deemed cost effective to move tier one desktop support halfway across the world because you'd want boots on the ground to deal with these machines that constantly lock up and blue screen.
Fact of the matter is, that doing some pretty cutting edge software development on the Win platform, as I do, I haven't had my Win desktop or laptop ever lock up, blue screen, or otherwise stop working for...let's see...ever. Even as taxed as it is running multiple server applications, development environments, etc.
Again, I'm not saying Win is the best...but come on...you're overstating this a little bit.
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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linuxfblamaur
In the architecture and engineering world, which relies pretty heavily on programs that are graphics oriented, Windows still is king. I have worked with a few architects who use Macs, but for the most part, everyone doing extensive drafting and rendering in this area is using a PC with Windows. There are certainly problems now and then, but I can't say that they are a major thing preventing us from getting work out.
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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linuxfblamaur
No Karl, he's not working desktop support, he's the owner. Its a small company, and the boss works as an IT consultant outside the company in another venture. He bought the company as a side investment. He drops in from time to time.
The pcs don't lockup everyday, all day long, sorry if you got that impression. They do lock up, I've seen it many times, and it happens when you need it the most. The Macs were old and slow, but he should have replaced them with Macs. Thats just my take on it.
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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linux
No flame intended at all. I was just arguing that XP is a stable system for recording. Very stable. I'm not really a computer guy. Im a recording/musician guy. I dont understand a lot of what you guys are talking about. It wasnt easy peasy getting everything working in my studio. But it was doable. Even for me.
I can control 15 multi-timbral midi devices. I have 24 motorized strips and tons of custom mapped buttons on my control surface, 4 clock sources, 5 audio card sources, 4 dsp cards, plugins and platforms galore, and lots of old, cranky outboard gear that all works seamlessly together. Except the XTL, it only works during a full moon on a tuesday if I'm wearing a kilt.
I can yank a drive out of my HD24 and plug it into my FST and bam, I'm editing audio on the computer. I can work really fast and intuitively. I've yet to max out, and if my computer bit the big one tomorrow, I could build another system and have it back up to speed in a day for very little money. A really long day probably, but that's huge. This is my third computer with the same OS.I dont know, maybe you could get all that stuff working on a Linux system. But I doubt I could. And, I'll admit, I dont have my studio computer on the net unless I need to update something. And it has to be vital or I dont bother. The network stuff interferes with audio so it's disabled. And I use EndItAll to shut down all the crap that I dont need.
I occasionally get to work on a Mac/PT HD/Control 24 system and it's the shiznit. I want it. I think the computer and surface alone is around 30k. And most big houses have multiple systems and write to multiple drives. Software and plugins are crazy expensive, resource intensive, and if it goes titz up, you're screwed. It's downright sexy if you have the cash. But there is no difference in basic sound quality. PT doesnt sound any better than Sonar or Reaper with comparable conversion and front end. The plugins are better.
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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linux
i guess my definition of "stability" or all-out wonderfulness of a computer system would include the amount of time i have to spend searching around for updates and answers. an application crashing once in awhile is less painful to me than searching blogs and forums for where HotGary635 is storing that patch he wrote for version 10.23 of Ubunto series J to fix the problem that i'm having with my printer.
btw, that's why i switched and am very glad that i switched to Mac. perfect? no. but much closer than any pc i've ever used--with tons less effort. most things actually do "just work." digital audio (using Tracktion) was almost too easy to get set up--like, "what the hell am i going to do with the rest of the weekend? oh yeah, maybe play some music." so it's not as if i'm a microsoft fanboy but an open-source OS would definately be my 3rd choice.
i did try ubunto on a laptop for a short test run--i believe i had open office or some other office clone and some form of browser--it seemed very old-school-Windows to me but otherwise was able to run open office and some form of browser--extremely stable running 3 programs (but what isn't?.) it didn't seem worth bothering trying to come up with equivalents to all of my purchased software or the iLife stuff that i use all the time.
saving your documents often is always the best way to prevent data loss--if you are creating hours and hours worth of work on any platform without saving i would say that you are bound to loose data eventually. i'm pretty awful with this at work though--but i've got 20 items running on my task bar right now--my day is scattered like that--so it's tough to say what i should be saving when. fear of data loss due to a crash is not reason, for me, to go to a Build Your Own Operating System--just hit the Save button once in awhile because the power could go out, you could spill a drink on your computer, your cat could chew through your power chord. and, once every couple of months or so, leave your computer on all night while it defrags. my dad shuts his computer down between uses therefore he rarely uses his computer--i just can't handle that, i figure if it's in sleep mode the power consumption can't be much worse than what you waste while the thing boots up and frankly i use my computer for so much that it wouldn't make sense to shut it down all the time.
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Currently Being ModeratedRe: Lack of support for Linux
Well Mikey, I used XP for a long time too.
If you are happy with it and are getting the results you want, thats the only thing thats important.
I mean, thats what a computer is for, its just a tool. If that tool works for you, then use it.
I really only get down on Windows when people who have no real Linux experience trash Linux in favor of what they know, Windows. Technically Linux is better, but its a steeper learning curve to sometimes get what you want out of it. Musicians are usually artistic types and not technical geeks. Musicains are usually end users, but not in every case. So I do get it. You just want a system that works, and not have to spend weeks configuring and learning. I get it.
I have been using Linux for 5 years, I have toyed with the audio programs in the past and felt they really weren't ready. I think they are ready now, and I think things will improve rapidly from here on out. Its been proven to me that it works. Hopefully in the future they can put out steady reliable releases. Aside from that, I am new to recording with Linux myself.
I understand too, that most musicians are end users, not computer programmers. They want to set up their system, then focus on music. It makes sense.
Me, I don't mind that its sometimes more of a challange to get Linux up and running. I like it, it makes me think, it helps me learn. But thats just me.
I understand too, one of the major roadblocks holding back Linux from going mainstream, is that its simply not as easy to configure as Windows. You have to know some things. Microsoft busted the home pc market wide open when they introduced the low cost easy to use pc. People got comfortable with it, accepted the security vulnarbilities as just the way it is, and have been using it ever since. Microsoft will not be dethroned anytime soon. They are firmly entrenched. But there are challengers.
I say good for you. You got a good system running, and I don't blame you for defending what you use. XP can be excellent. I recorded many cds worth of great material, all on XP. I feel now, I am ready to take on the challenge of moving a step up. Not only to Linux and its low latency, real time kernel, but also to better hardware, and a few other upgrades. Sometimes you just gotta put your nose to the grindstone, learn, and move up. For me, its a new way of doing things.
For Windows fans, Seven will be better than XP, once the slackers finally put out drivers.
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