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Up to Discussions in Praise & Worship Band Musicians
6312 Views 21 Replies Latest reply: Feb 28, 2010 10:00 PM by bake249 RSS
drewdude30 Just Startin'
drewdude30
8 posts since
Oct 17, 2008
Currently Being Moderated

Jun 1, 2009 6:45 PM

Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

     Hey guys just wanted to say what a great group this is to have! I am a worship leader at my church and am also in school to become a better one. I love having the advice of other worship leaders and musicians playing with the same gear (POD X3 Live) and finding out what works for them and what might work for me at my church!

     Anyway i recently have come home from college and have started leading worship at my church again. The first few weeks back have brought awesome spirit filled services. Our services are what you might call blended with contemporary worship songs with a hymn thrown in. Recently i have been using my Fender Strat alot with my Pod and spicing up our services with some electric guitar for faster, more upbeat songs, and acoustic for slower, mellower songs. Up until this sunday i thought everything was going great with the new sound, until i was pulled aside by the pastor and was told that our services are too "Rocking" and that the volume of the electric guitar was too much and i needed to pull back and not play the electric guitar anymore aside from and occasional one song. This is very discouraging as a worship leader when your interuptted  from taking a church one direction musically. I was wondering if anyone else experienced similar things and what you did about them? While i admit my ambitions might be selfish, i know there is away to have electric guitars work in churches, for i have seen this for myself many times. Thanks for your time reading this and any advice on the issue is greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks and God Bless,

Drewdude30

  • dtrout Just Startin'
    dtrout
    11 posts since
    Mar 3, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 2, 2009 10:58 AM (in response to drewdude30)
    Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

    I play electric only and have been playing almost every week for the past eight years.  I really think it may be more of a volume issue rather than electric guitar issue.  I play through a XTL and seldom use distortion.  We all play straight through the house with no on stage amplification, just the floor monitors.  I would love to have an amp on stage but I have found that by doing that it is easy to get into "volume wars".

     

    A worship leader friend of mine told me he was led to a church as the music minister.  This was a traditional Southern Baptist church - piano, organ and hymnals.  He tried and tried to do blended and contemporary services with no success and eventually left the church.  After he left that church he told me he would never again attempt blended or contemporary services in a traditional church.

     

    I feel blessed that many in our congregation tell me how they love the music and how it adds to the worship service.  I pray that you all can work this out.  I only know one thing, you can't please all the people all the time.  Even in "traditional" churches that only sing hymns, you will have people complaining because they never sing this hymn or that hymn.

     

    I say the only hymn they should be concerned about is - Him.

     

    God bless,

    Dolan

    • Stratotron Just Startin'
      Stratotron
      110 posts since
      Mar 13, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jun 2, 2009 11:41 AM (in response to dtrout)
      Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

      This is an extremely important subject and I hope my comments are helpful. My approach to this subject is that I purpose to not lead but to be a "part of". In other words I rely on the vision of our worship leader and prayerfully work towards making that vision happen. I always ask "how far do you want me to go" with any arrangement or new song. I purpose to not be heard from the stage, so to that end, I use a closed back amp that is faced away from the house, in front of me and a direct line is fed to the PA.

      I am always sensitive to the idea that many times the nature of a punchy-distorted guitar sound has the "appearance" of being loud because but its nature it just sounds big, and write patches and play accordingly.

      I try to play sparingly and let the acoustic guitar carry the rhythm. As an electric player, I may play an enitre song and never play a chord.

       

      I would suggest that you step back and do what the pastor asks and  occasionaly add the electric piece and give it a chance to grow. As I have gained the trust of our leader, and the congregation has gotten used to me and my style, my leash has gotten longer. I am sensitive to not abuse it.

       

      I really hope this helps and is an encouragement to you.

       

      Blessings

       

      PTL

       

      Strato..

  • nick98338 Iknowathingortwo
    nick98338
    162 posts since
    Sep 9, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2009 9:52 AM (in response to drewdude30)
    Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

    We have had electric guitar in our music teams for so many years that it is hard to think of there not being one. But, the electric lead work is subdued. Some drive, but not heavy. Think Paul Baloche, not Kutless. AC-30 amp sims, not Bomber Uber. You get the idea. Its in there, but its tasteful.

  • danielb24 Just Startin'
    danielb24
    3 posts since
    Oct 1, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 13, 2009 4:55 AM (in response to drewdude30)
    Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

    Hi,

     

    I agree with nick there. I've been playing guitar for the music team about a year and a half now and have come to know a less is more approach to playing with the music team. I also seldom use distortion now. (I use to have one setting on my PXT which was distortion.) But now I only use distortion for specific songs (mostly hillsong united). We also used to have amps plus stage monitors and would get into volume wars with each other. But the best decision our music director ever made was to take out the amps comletely and just use the stage monitors. Our sound tech would just adjust our volumes to our liking but on a certain level.

  • peterksh Just Startin'
    peterksh
    6 posts since
    Jul 6, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2009 1:23 AM (in response to drewdude30)
    Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

    You have brought up a very large and complex topic/issue.  I will not be addressing all the facets of this question. An important foundational premise is that  the worship leader is a help or servant or support to the senior pastor  (i.e. he works for and is responsible to the senior pastor).  If you accept this premise than even if it would otherwise be God's will to do something new musically, it would not be His will to do so against your pastor. Look at the example of David in the OT. Even though King Saul was backslidden and off David would not do harm to the God ordained leader.  Wait for God's timing. If He wants it to happen-- He will open the way if you are humble and yielded to Him.

     

    Bring as much change and only as quickly  as your pastor/church can tolerate. Bring it in slowly.  Examine the issues involved with the complaint and try to address them: is it a matter of sound level adjustment, or sound type (too raunchy, overdrive distortion etc.), is it a church culture thing (some older people cannot get into rock sounds etc.). Examine your own heart and make sure your motivations are right. Are you trying to show off or tacitly rebel or draw attention on yourself?  If you are sincerely trying to just bring what you think is the "right"  sound for that context (i.e the particular song in its worship flow context) then just do as much as your are permitted to do. You may be able to slowly change the musical culture in your church but this must be done only if this agreeable to the senior pastor.

     

    Worship and praise are really for God. I believer in the "audience of One" view of worship. The worship team and the congregation should be all trying to please,honour, magnify and express affection for God.  I don't think you should be trying to entertain or please your congregation but help them to come to a place of seeing and loving and adoring the Father and the Son. If you espouse the same view of worship then you would not want to do things musically that left the congregation alienated. You could play lead electric guitar sounds that are new or different to the church if their intended effect is to point them to some attribute of God or in some way enhance the congregation's ablity to see, appreciate and worship God. But if  the guitar riff did not really fit into the worship context or it just was a nice "fill in" that did not go anywhere worship wise then it would not be appropriate.

     

    I don't want to sound too negative. Powerful rock-derived chord progressions (eg.Bb2-C2-D ) can be used to purvey the mood/idea of God's power or eternity or majesty.

     

    If certain rock sounds are not tolerated at your church try to find the best sound that approximates what you wanted to do.  Keep a humble submissive attitude to your pastor and figure out the best way you can "lift Him up" within the parameters the senior pastor gives you. Recognize that his authority is God given and if you keep the right attitude the most good can be accomplished in your life and in the lives of the people you serve musically. I like the truth in the Hillsong song lyric: "You deserve the highest praise we can give and more so we give you the praise that's what we came here for".  Give it your best shot, use whatever sounds are permitted you to give God the most honour and glory possible!

     

    Best wishes to you brother. I hope this was helpful.

     

    Peter  

  • ZemanG2 Just Startin'
    ZemanG2
    65 posts since
    Nov 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2009 4:52 AM (in response to drewdude30)
    Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

    Such a variety of answers. And so much goes into it as well. From what I got from all of what you wrote was my desires may be selfish. That really should be the subject, personally spiritually etc. SOme guys here are blessed to be in a supportive church, or completely contemporary church. But in truth many people just are not ready to change, be it the songs, the level of sound etc. In my case I was a little too over zealous and basically told my pastor I will do what I know I am called to do. So we kept in the direction we were going and hit many walls lots of complaints, were told not to do hymns any other way but traditional....we did O For a Thousand Tongues to sing DCB, but over all young people started showing up, young people started coming to Christ and a lot of people left. But I did swallow my pride a lot, took the electric guitar off the line up for a few months, made my drummer play with certain sticks and set the other musicians output levels. The thing is are you 1) being submissive 2) staying true to your calling 3) not doing things for yourself.... on the personal spiritual side those things matter quite more than if you can play your electric in church. In truth the fact that we have the freedom to do so, we should be glad in that. Hope a different perspective helped

    • da-picker Just Startin'
      da-picker
      9 posts since
      May 26, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 15, 2009 11:25 AM (in response to ZemanG2)
      Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

      Partner,

      a close friend of mine goes back a number of years in church music. He tells me there was a time (in the late part of the last century, mind you)when if you brought an electric guitar into some shurches, people ther would try to cast demons out of you, and mean it most sincerely. There was a time when both "Folk worship" with acoustic guitars, and southern gospel music were considered controversial, worldly, and perhaps too modern for use in church. The church at large has come a long way in a relatively short period of time regarding styles of music considered appropriate for church, although, as you have discovered,  some places seem to have come much farther than others.

       

      As far as knowing if your motives for wanting to do electric music goes, it's usually hard to know one's exact motivation for doing anything, what with the human heart being deceitful above all things. In my own life, I have found that there are usually both good and bad motives all mixed in together behind the things I end up doing. I think that is true of everyone. There is no such thing as a pure motive among human beings, regardless of how many years they've cultivated the life of the Spirit in their hearts. If you succeed in washing all the dirt out of vessels of clay, you end up with no vessels. And, trying to perfect your motives before you do anything will guarantee you will never do anything. I like what I heard Keith Green say about it; he said you should examine you motives a little, but not let it turn into endless staring into your own navel. The idea, as I see it,is to stay in contact with God, because the Holy Spirit  will convict your heart of wrong.. That way, you don't have to guess.

       

      I'd say, from reading your second post, that you're on the right track. Another definition for the word minister is "servant". You serve the congregation as a worship leader, and a lot of the time that means giving them what they want. It also means sometimes you give them what they need instead, just not as often. A worship leader is a facilitator, working to encourage his people to engage with God. That's hard if they are distracted by the music.

      If you've been told the music is too "rockin'",wait a little while till the dust settles and the tempers cool off, then play one or two slower, more comtemplative songs per Sunday on the electric guitar, using cleaner, mellower patches on your Pod, with a tasteful amount of 'verb and chorus. If you have a sound man have him ride the gain on your channel like a jockey going for the win at the Kentucky Derby. If you don't have a sound man, get one, preferably one who knows what he's doing.  Have him keep your electric smooth, mellow, and under the voices.  Gradually, bring the electric back, but give folks a chance to get used to it.

       

      Also, when there is an opportunity to use prerecorded music, use the most current stuff you can get, but only gradually bringing the heat up. You have to get folks used to what they are going to hear, or it throws them. See, there were a few folks, maybe more than a few, who didn't mind the music you played, or even liked it. If you take your time and get folks used to the newer stuff a little at a time, you'll increase their number.

       

      One last thing; if you haven't already, apologize to your pastor. It's just a guess, but he's probably aware of the current trends in music in the church, and the benefits in terms of church growth and energizing a congregation involved with employing them. He ends up caught in the middle of the tug or war between the traditional and the contemporary in all matters having to do with his flock. I can picture a group of irate members coming to him, saying "that kid and his electric GEE-tar have got to go!", mainly because it has happened so many times in the past. Give the man a break, he needs it more than you might know.

       

      Many blessings to you in your ministry to the body, and may God grant you a true direction in the way you proceed.

  • death_looms Just Startin'
    death_looms
    10 posts since
    Nov 6, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 21, 2009 9:54 AM (in response to drewdude30)
    Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

    Hey guys! Just thought I'd chip in with how I go about these things!

     

    I'm going to assume you're American, and thus things are generally different from N.Ireland! After I had a fight with my acoustic, I refused to play it anywhere, and became a purely electric player in my church (the only one!). A couple of months ago, I got 'promoted' to a worship leader. My church has a healthy mix of age/gender/etc., and is used to piano/acoustic led bands. Naturally, there were a few nervous faces when I said I wasn't playing acoustic any more! I have a passion more for the electric than I do the music genre (I find a lot of contemporary music flat and musically boring). So, instead of trying to introduce a different genre of music, I'm trying to find ways of using my electric in a way that works for my church. These are a few things I've found that work for me:

     

    () Get a good tone at a low volume! - We worship in an old church with huge reverb, so being quiet is essential! I need my amp, because our sound system is wick and we only have 1 monitor channel, but it's for me and the band only, not the congregation.

     

    () Work without an acoustic! - Too many people see acoustic(or electric) as rythm and another electric as lead. The whole rythm/lead thing dosn't work for me, so when I lead, I usually son't have another guitar player.

     

    () Sound good on your own! - Different chord voicings (e.g. high up on the neck that acoustics usually dont do) can bring a huge amount of depth to solo pieces/passages. It seperates acoustic and electric roles/sounds, and makes you more versitile.

     

    ()A little distortion is ok! - to trim some bass off and help reduce and piercing tone from my fender guitar and amp combo. Not so it sounds heavy, but a little can be useful.

     

    () Work with the minister/pastor - It's their congregation after all! I work with mine in choosing songs and styles to fit what they're talking about and the mood they want. If it's a team thing, there'll be less confrontations. Remember- the pastor ranks above you! Their word is final!

     

    () No solos! - if you're singing over the congregation, maybe. Definitly not during the worship! Riffs and links are cool, they add musical texture, but solos are all about attention to the guitar. I used to think they could be done in a worship setting, but I've learnt otherwise!

     

    ()Play skillfully! - If you don't, people will be distracted. If you practice and have a decent degree of skill, they won't notice you. (which is what I want!)

     

     

    That's all I can think of right now, and I know it wont be applicable to everybody, but if you think it can help you, try! The biggest lesson I learn't is that I have to be flexible, much more so than the pastor and congregation!

     

    David

    • fuly4jc Just Startin'
      fuly4jc
      114 posts since
      Mar 26, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Nov 21, 2009 11:08 AM (in response to death_looms)
      Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

      I have run into pretty much all the negative issues described in every post here.It does come all down to serventhood and having a good relationship with your pastor and worship leader.I have to say now I don't really have these issues for the most part.Volume yes but that is where it ends.I love a good loud amp next to me but my home church is not large and stage volume is an issue so we switched to inears,problem pretty much solved.Every was willing to give a little to make it work.As far as tone and playing;my pastor actually wants more overdrive and I usually have to dial down so that is not an issue.Solos?No problems,if my leader and I feel it will work,I do it.Sometimes she lets me just go off if the timing is right and the spirit is right.The congrigation is usually so engrossed in worship they are not focusing on the solo but more it adds to what is going on.I play at 2 different churches and they are different but same view on music.Every church is different but we all have the same goal;to worship the one who has called us and show God's love to all.Marshall stacks rock but tone is subjective and sometimes it takes time for things to work.After 18 years of this,I have learned that I will always be learning and there is always give and take.Attitude and patience is key for the most part.Till He calls us home....Peace and rock on!!

  • ssandlin501 Just Startin'
    ssandlin501
    2 posts since
    Feb 1, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 1, 2010 11:12 AM (in response to drewdude30)
    Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

    I know it's a bit late to jump in, but I can offer my personal experience and maybe you can take something from it to build confidence or plan a strategy.  And, since this reply is about 7 months late, I hope things are going well for you with your music ministry.

     

    I grew up playing blues guitar and rock.  I just turned 31, so I am not a young hot shot, nor am I a seasoned veteran but I have been playing guitar for almost 20 years.  About 10 years ago, I attempted to integrate a "live" band into our church's music ministry.  The Minister of Music and the Preacher were both on board with the idea (which is a bit of a different situation than what you seem to be in).  However, we had to pick and choose carefully how we did this.

     

    At first, it was only on Sunday nights and only about once or twice a month.  We had an acoustic guitarist, an electric guitarist, bass player, piano player and drummer using electric drums.  The initial reception was mixed.  We did not play anything very aggressive and the electric guitar was mainly to supplement the acoustic rhythm and add counter melodies to the piano or lyrics.  In addition, I was playing through a Fender 22-watt amp, clean mainly, with a mic in front of it.  It was a very tame injection.  Every once in a while, I would do a special song on the acoustic in the morning services to try and bridge the two concepts.  The songs I would do would be the same stuff we were doing at night.  The band's music was more on a CC or P&W angle, where the morning music was traditional hymns mixed with trackwork.

     

    Unfortunately for me, I took a job in another state that I couldn't pass up and the band stopped.  However, to my pleasant surprise, about 6 years ago the band idea started up with essentially the same makeup, minus the electric guitar.  They started out playing at night and gradually would play once a month in the morning.  On my visits back home, I would sit in with them and we got great reviews for the most part.  I moved back about 6 months ago and now we play 3-4 weeks out of the month in the mornings and it has become a very integral part of our Sunday morning worship.  The choir will sing 3 or 4 songs and then we will come up and do 3 or 4 songs.  It really has been an exciting time.  We are starting to incorporate more radio songs that the congregation will be familiar with.  Along with that comes a little more aggressive guitar play.  The congregation seems to really enjoy it and we are always asked if we will be playing on Sunday morning before service.  Now, I'm able to play with a little tube saturation feel and even throw in a heavy wah pedal or Leslie effect.  It's great!

     

    My suggestion would be to be patient with it.  It is a process.  Use the instrument as a means to transmit music, not necessarily as an instrument of skill.  I dealt with (and am still) trying to find a happy medium between playing how I love to play and playing the way that makes the music the most meaningful.  Sometimes that means playing broken chord arpeggios or putting a little chorus effect and playing chords.  I even will shed the electric for songs and play an acoustic or resonator with bottle slide for the softer songs.  Also, a good formula we have used is to take traditional hymns and revamp them a bit.  For instance, I took Victory in Jesus and turned it into a blues shuffle.  They love it.  If you can be dynamic in your song selection and choice of riffs, it will take time but if they are willing to accept the music for what it is, they'll warm to it and you can gradually build your ministry to what your ambitions are.

     

    I apologize for the long-winded post, but hopefully something will make sense and maybe even be of good use for you.  Best of luck.

     

    Scott

  • webe123 Just Startin'
    webe123
    16 posts since
    Aug 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 11, 2010 12:51 PM (in response to drewdude30)
    Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

    Maybe I am luckier than the original poster, I don't know, but I do not go to a church that HAS that kind of attitude against electric guitar playing! Even on distortion. The church I am currently at, loves it when I do choose to play a distorted solo or just about anything I do on either the electric, acoustic or MIDI guitars I have onstage with me at all times.Weather the sound is clean or dirty. I have been playing in church for 29 years and know how to flow with a service, so maybe that has something to do with it as well.

     

    The other day the soundman came up to me and asked me to literally turn my electric guitar UP...not DOWN! I just said OK, though it was ceretianly loud enough to me as I use a mesa boogie lonestar 2x12 with a pod X3 live using the 4 cable method that bypasses the modeling.I mic the amp with a shure SM 57....GREAT sound! .

     

    I guess it depends on where you go, but I have not had the kind of problems the original poster describes in the church I am currently at. I have had some problems in the past in other churches when I was younger, but those were mainly a very small minority and they were not quite as harsh. BUT.....I have never had a pastor that was over me have to pull me aside and tell me my guitar is "too rocky"!

     

    The pastors I have had, usually love my playing style. Like I said, I guess I am lucky to not have had that happen to me.

  • Gareth1 Just Startin'
    Gareth1
    12 posts since
    Mar 5, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 22, 2010 3:37 PM (in response to drewdude30)
    Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

    I think I am pretty lucky too... I regularly play here in the uk for large conferences & christian events where I use my line 6 gear & can play some realy big rock sounds as well as some nice smooth grooves & funk playing.........

    I guess I fall into the 'Rob Bell' category of worship where I see that 'everything is spiritual'....Here in the UK we are much more embracing of different styles & expressions of worship...

    (I may post some links to videos of myself playing at a large conference here which was screened on the God Channel if you fancy.... I can really 'metal it up' if needed or play some Gilmour type licks.....)

     

    I'm currently doing gigs which Christians can bring their non christian friends to without it having a cringe factor of 50! using my variax & x3 live has really enabled me to take a leap into a much more professional sound & presentation.....(It does help that I have an awesome band to work with who all feel similarly about how to reach the world with the gifts we have)

     

    Someday I hope to get over to the US & play some..... maybe more people will see what we are trying to do as christians who love all music & can say that 'It IS all spiritual' because it is being played by a spiritual person........

     

    (and dont all have a go at me for mentioning Gilmour....... I mean, come on......the man creates some of the most spiritual music ever!!!!!)

     

    Gareth

    • Bluestone Iknowathingortwo
      Bluestone
      1,198 posts since
      Feb 11, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Feb 22, 2010 4:15 PM (in response to Gareth1)
      Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

      Agrred bro..Gilmore's tone's...are among the best...as to the Spirit of his work w/ PF...again the tones...man the tones...but...I wonder at what spirit is really behind the words on a lot of PF songs...

      No flame..no dis..here...just observing...

      I always found PF kind of dark in spirit..and as  Christain....it actaully distrubed me...so I'm not a huge fan of playing a lot of PF...BUT...as you said..Gilmores tones are all that and a bag of chips too...he does create a spirtual thing...behind the PF base..but what spirit is it?

       

      Love in Christ..we are one in HIS Spirit....



      OM

    • mlfowler Just Startin'
      mlfowler
      10 posts since
      Apr 27, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Feb 23, 2010 2:34 PM (in response to Gareth1)
      Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship
      I think I am pretty lucky too... I regularly play here in the uk for large conferences & christian events where I use my line 6 gear & can play some realy big rock sounds as well as some nice smooth grooves & funk playing.........

       

      I play in the UK too but I face some mild resistance. I have to be careful how "electric" I am in a "normal" service, mainly because I've been warned (in a very friendly way) that some in our congregation would be uncomfortable if I were to get carried away. My way around this has been to use a mandolin for the more traditional songs/hymns and the electric for the contemporary songs. For these I usually play mildly distorted/chorused chords on the first beat and let it sustain through the bar during the verses and chorused on the beat chords during the chorus. I also like to use a wah-wah out of a bridge back into the chorus. Some songs (e.g. Everlasting God) I play a riffs based around the vocal melody and I usually use a mildly overdriven tone with a touch of delay.

       

      (and dont all have a go at me for mentioning Gilmour....... I mean, come on......the man creates some of the most spiritual music ever!!!!!)

      I once told someone that a lot of playing is influnced by Gilmour and they were disappointed! Though I agree it's not Christian music, many of the Pink Floyd songs are very moving, and Gilmour's "On an Island" solo work is very moving. Players can learn a lot from his solos/licks, for example I've used Echoes as a case study. Other notable guitarists/artists I've drawn from include Mark Knopfler, Michael Messer, the Doves, Travis, Starsailor and R.E.M. Obviously none of them are Christian groups (though some of Starsailor's work is clearly influnced by Christianity, just listen to Born Again), but they can all help to inspire my playing in many different ways.

       

      As an bit of an off-topic, I feel that, as muscians, it's very important to listen to a very wide selection of music as it helps expand our musical horizons. I once read an interview with a guitarist (apologies, I forget who now) who suggested that people listen particularly to music they don't like as it forces them to try and find fragments within that they do like to make the song bearable. You can then extract those fragments and slot them in to your own playing.

       

      At the end of the day I think one thing must never be forgotten: We are worship facillitators present to help people be more effective in worship. To me, I've done a good "job" if no one notices me playing (by which I mean I receive no comments, postive or negative).

      • DrBob737 Just Startin'
        DrBob737
        9 posts since
        Oct 2, 2006
        Currently Being Moderated
        Feb 24, 2010 5:13 PM (in response to mlfowler)
        Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

        Hey sorry to hear you are experiencing that little negativity with regards electric guitar in Worship. I think many musicians on this web group may be fortunate that they are more likely part of the newer church thinking with live contemporary music and/or pentecostal movement such as Hillsong that explores everything in "honor" of God. Remember when the leadership wants it, the congregation accept it. If a congregation member finds it offensive then they have the opportunity to either re-evaluate why they are at Church or simply go to another church.

         

        I am 56 years old and the oldest member of my worship team. We are a church of 1400 in and about Gold Coast Queensland Australia and so Sundays, worship can be pretty awesome honoring God.  We are rotating over twenty musicians and so are blessed abundantly by God. I have been personally blessed in that I found God again and after thirty years as a rock musician and just about ready to throw all my gear out, God found a way for me to worship again through my electric guitar and bass. I actually use a Line 6 xt Pod Live and have spend considerable time with my patches. I run the unit exclusively in studio out mode with line out to PA direct ( yes sometimes I have had my amp switched off and relied purely on FOH to mix my electric into the mix) I have a '76 SF Twin with vintage Eminance 12" speakers, a Fender Supersonic Blonde and an old Fender Bassman 100 '74  valve with a EV 15" and 2 x 12" JBL's. For guitars I use a 2003 Fender USA Strat std w/ Dave Gilmour EMG kit and for bass a vintage '68 Precision again w/ EMG PJ Kit . Exclusively use Elixir strings.

         

        With regards electric guitar and being sensitive to congregation, I have found that the trick is, which I believe not enough musicians do, is to face your amp to your head just like a big concert "close monitoring". Needs to be within a few meters/yards and off the ground unless you have tilt legs like the better Fender guitar amps all have. It does several things:

        1. Adjust volume so you can have the true Line 6 patch through your amp or in my case one of my valve amps and just work at getting a beautiful "live mix". Not easy when you rehearse before the service and Church is still empty!

        2. Remember the FOH guy is usually at back of church so he misses most electric guitar sounds because he is concentrating on vocals so congregation is being led! (Fact regardless of experience)

        3. In a tilt mode, a lot of your sound will be first heard by you and at an angle that hopefully will not affect others on stage (hope they are all using in-ears)

        4. This position the electric will be heard within the first fifteen rows and depending on your church acoustics you can usually get an idea of the balance from week to week based on "number of people" in Service, weather (yes weather...moist, dry, humid, cold) and last but not least is it praise or is it a worship song there is a difference right gang! If your Church only has 15 rows or so then, yes , be careful on your levels!!

         

        That's it KISS principal applies. I hope that helps and God Bless all you guys that volunteer week in and week out unpaid to honor God!

        • webe123 Just Startin'
          webe123
          16 posts since
          Aug 25, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Feb 24, 2010 5:50 PM (in response to DrBob737)
          Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

          @Drbob737....Your amp setup suggestion is what I have been using in church ever since I started playing guitar at church in 1981!

           

          It is really the best way if you are going to use an amp and amp stands which correctly set your amp angle can be bought for very little.

           

          I use my Mesa Boogie Lonestar  2x12 all tube amp with a 4 cable method on my pod X3 live going through the effects loop that cuts out the modeling and lets me use just the effects! The result is great! Since I mic my amp with a Shure SM 57...I get great effects and the sound of the tube amp...which takes the "edge" off the digital effects.  I used a radio shack db meter to measure my sounds and get them all even through my amp, so that when it goes out to the board, some sounds are not louder or softer, but all are at pretty much the same level. I run my amp at 100 db, which sounds like a lot, but when the acoustic drums , electric bass, keyboard  and organ with miced leslie kick in, it is just about perfect. And the amp is twords ME, so it is not as loud when the audience hears it.

           

          I go to a pentecostal church also, so that is more of an accepted norm in their services.

      • bake249 Just Startin'
        bake249
        6 posts since
        Oct 18, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Feb 28, 2010 10:00 PM (in response to mlfowler)
        Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

        Hey I was cought up with the people who did not like non-christian influence.  Why cant you and I be influenced by non-christians in a good way?  God made them too!  Is there really a such thing as christian music.  Can an inanimate object follow christ?  There are only christian message lyrics, not music.  Do those who judge you watch non-christian sports? How about non-christian tv?  I think you get my point.  Keep doing what you are doing focusing on Him.

  • wriimage Just Startin'
    wriimage
    6 posts since
    Nov 11, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 22, 2010 11:26 PM (in response to drewdude30)
    Re: Combating Negative Views on Electric Guitar In Worship

    Very real topic here in northern Michigan, too. This has been my solution for playing in churches: My Godin electric allows me to send two separate channels out - one I use clean, into some processing, and into the board as an acoustic channel - and the second I use as an electric sound, either through my pod X3-live or through my Johnson Millenium tube amp/processor. This gives the sound tech two signals to work with and adjust the crunch to the taste of the congregation. I make sure to communicate though if it's a song that I'm going to drive from the electric side and turn the acoustic pickup down on my guitar. While this gives up what feels like lots of control, I have to remember that the sound tech is going to be the one adjusting my volume overall anyway, and if I provided nothing he likes, I'm going to end up with nothing.

     

    In my home church - where I'm the worship pastor - I know that this is a compromise because my primary sound tech likes more acoustic than electric. So I use the electric for swells/emphasis and save the crunch for key moments that cry out for the big stuff. He's learned to let it go - tastefully. This is actually a safety valve for me, being an old head-banger from the 80's anyway. It does save the congregation from some grief.

     

    The most important thing here, though is that we musicians keep a servant's heart and remember that the lead pastor has a larger perspective on the congregation's needs than we do, and may be considering factors that are outside of our consideration. Besides, he's the one accountable to God for it. It may well be that God uses what feels controlling and frustrating artisticly to make you a more controlled and deliberate musician or to develop other fruit in your life.

     

    Sometimes when I want to try something that I am unsure whether or not some of the older folks in the congregation will go for it, I'll have a group of elementary age kids be a part of it on the platform. The congregation, especially the older folks, love to see the kids up there, and have LOTS more grace for what we're doing. It seems to smooth the way.

     

    On a side note - I've learned lots about soloing from PF - the Wall album is pretty much a dead-on perspective for a person who doesn't know the Lord - pretty insightful, really (and depressing!). Makes me thankfulI know Jesus as my source of hope and joy!

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