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Up to Discussions in Spider IV/Spider Online
2542 Views 13 Replies Latest reply: Mar 9, 2010 9:14 AM by Hey_Joe RSS
Hey_Joe Iknowathingortwo
Hey_Joe
600 posts since
Jan 24, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Feb 9, 2010 9:40 AM

Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

here's a non support question I've been pondering --

 

I just bought a Spider IV 75 last Friday to have as a quick and easy amp instead of my X3L and powered PA. I really wish Line6 would have included a FX send/return loop. I'm not b i t c h i n g, I did my homework and knew it wasn't included before I bought. I just wanted a low price alternative/backup and didn't want to shell out $750 for a SV MkII 112 to get Bogner tube power and the loop.

 

I wonder how much more that would have upped the retail price.

 

Theoretically, can a FX Loop be added to Spider IV? (obviously voiding the warranty).

 

For those who understand the electronics of doing this,

How feasible would it be to do?

 

just wondering.

  • Nick_Mattocks Expert Line 6 User
    Nick_Mattocks
    8,791 posts since
    Mar 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2010 11:20 AM (in response to Hey_Joe)
    Re: Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

    Hi

     

    Obviously a theoretical unsupported conversation here

     

    I don't know for sure because I haven't opened up my Spider IV - and don't intend to for the foreseeable future.  However in a normal amp it would be a fairly straightforward procedure to tap into the relevant link between the output of the pre-amp stage and the input of the power amp stage to provide a means of inserting FX if you know what to look for.  But the Spider amps are not 'normal' amps.  You would have to ensure that impedance and level matching was catered for properly so that whatever effects were in the loop would be able to provide sufficient level to properly drive the power stage, and that's a bit more difficult to get right.   Plus of course you'd absolutely have to ensure that the tap didn't present any kind of risk to the end user or any FX devices that were plugged in - and that is a serious consideration.   A schematic would obviously be helpful, but you won't get one of those through any official channel if at all.  Don't forget you'd also need to feed twin power amps as well as take a stereo input as a feed with the Spider IV 120 or bigger.

     

    But - yes - in theory I suppose it could be done

     

    TBH - if you want an amp with the capabilities of the Spider IV but with an FX loop, you'd be better off getting a Spider Valve MkII

     

    Yours theoretically

     

    Nick

    • Hey_Joe Iknowathingortwo
      Hey_Joe
      600 posts since
      Jan 24, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Feb 9, 2010 12:02 PM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
      Re: Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

      For an extra $450, I'll live with it.

      How much more do you "Theoretically" think it would have raised the retail price to do this?

      the 75 is $299.99

      • geebake Just Startin'
        geebake
        44 posts since
        Mar 12, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Feb 9, 2010 1:11 PM (in response to Hey_Joe)
        Re: Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

        I'm disapointed that this amp doesn't have a loop as well. Though, like you, I knew there wasn't one when I bought it.

         

        I don't think it would have added that much to the cost, but I do believe that these amps are pointed at a very specific price point. Let's say it would have added $25. I suspect that $325 would have looked very different than $299 to some.

         

        I agree that, theoretically, a loop could be added to one of these, but can't imagine that it would make sense to do. It would be a cool custom amp though.

         

        Greg

        • Hey_Joe Iknowathingortwo
          Hey_Joe
          600 posts since
          Jan 24, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Feb 9, 2010 4:24 PM (in response to geebake)
          Re: Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

          Nick -

          you definitely know amps.

          About all I know is how to blow speakers.

          nice info... sounds unrealistic to ever try .

           

          Greg -

          Nice to know I'm not the only one that wishes a FX Loop was included.

          I sure would have paid the extra $(25) to have one.

           

          I used to be in retail for 20 + years and there really is a psychological factor to saying $299 as opposed to $300. $299 is still viewed as a $200 item but for just $1 more it's now a $300 item and maybe just too much to pay.

           

          thanks guys,

          Mark

          • Nick_Mattocks Expert Line 6 User
            Nick_Mattocks
            8,791 posts since
            Mar 26, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Feb 9, 2010 10:52 PM (in response to Hey_Joe)
            Re: Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

            Mark

             

            I only know so much   but I wouldn't say it's unrealistic to ever try and do this mod, but right now with it being so new and it being what it is with all the FX and more that most people would ever need - maybe not us because we always want more and we always want maximum flexibility LOL - it is a bit more than just clipping a single wire between the pre amp out and power amp in and sticking in a couple of jack sockets - maybe not a lot more, but as things stand, it would take more effort than risking the health and warranty status of the amp is worth.  To some extent, the old adage 'If it works, don't fix it' applies.

             

            The 'DI output whilst retaining operation of the on-board speakers' mod however is a much more feasible and desirable option IMO and not a million miles away from what an FX loop might require

             

            Nick

          • Rowbi Expert Line 6 User
            Rowbi
            7,454 posts since
            Nov 25, 2006
            Currently Being Moderated
            Feb 10, 2010 1:16 AM (in response to Hey_Joe)
            Re: Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

            i doubt an FX loop would have cost $25.  more like $5 or less.

             

            i think it's one of those features that should really be included on all amps, especially amps like the spider IV  i mean that would be a PERFECT power amp to use for a POD if it had a power amp input, and I'm certain they'd have shifted more if they'd have listed that as a possible amp for a POD.  there's your upgrade path too.  young lad gets spider IV.  later wants more FX or amp sims, so buys POD xt or X3 and uses existing amp for the PA.

             

            i do know that for an FX loop to work well (without clipping and impedance mis-matches) you would need a buffer stage for the FX send and return.  you can do without sometimes, but it will compromise your tone a little.  so it would cost you for 2 jack sockets, which must be $0.10 each with the bulk that LIne6 buy in for the spider IV inputs and things.  then 2 IC based buffer stages, which would be another few $ at most.

             

            anyway, it's usually a price point that needs to be met, and somethings like that get wasted.  after all the spider IV is just meant to be an amp and FX in a box, and not meant to be used for anything else..... and that's what it was designed for.

             

            I'm willing to try and help where I can, but I don't have anything but spider valves to hand.

             

            does anyone have some internal photos of a spider III or Spider IV??

            • Hey_Joe Iknowathingortwo
              Hey_Joe
              600 posts since
              Jan 24, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Feb 10, 2010 9:22 AM (in response to Rowbi)
              Re: Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

              Glad you chimed in Andy,

               

              Well, I'm not going to be modding my S IV 75 for the $299USD or opening for photos any time too soon but after just buying a M-9 for my X3L and awaiting another late update (FX Infusion),

              I got to wondering if it could have been done for a few dollars more. I guess Line6 just has certain lines that they will not cross; decisions they have made and stick to -- like not putting Variax connectivity to any but the Vetta amps and to not make their own versions of a Tech21 or an Atomic, even though it seems to me they would reap a huge harvest.

               

              It would be great for amplifying the POD as you say, there is another thread on this page that Nick weighed in on about using the Spider with a XTL. I tried the Headphones Out and a mono 1/4" Out into the CD/Mp3 Input from my X3L and it sounds pretty good. I read about feeding Pods into the CD/Mp3 Input on the Spider Jam when I was thinking about getting one and read a few threads about it then. People were pleased with the combo.

  • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User
    spaceatl
    3,833 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 11, 2010 1:44 PM (in response to Hey_Joe)
    Re: Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

    There are a few kits out there...

     

    http://www.ironsounds.com/

     

    Hit the kits link...$75 assembled SS FX Loop with power supply...

    • geebake Just Startin'
      geebake
      44 posts since
      Mar 12, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Feb 11, 2010 1:59 PM (in response to spaceatl)
      Re: Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

      Very interesting. If I thought I had the ability to do that, I think I would.

       

      Greg

    • Hey_Joe Iknowathingortwo
      Hey_Joe
      600 posts since
      Jan 24, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 5, 2010 9:08 AM (in response to spaceatl)
      Re: Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

      hey space -

       

      I have been reading other posts of yours around the forum and seems you really know you amps and mods.

      Looks like you do all this stuff yourself.

      But on this issue, how much do you think this would cost to have a shop do it, assuming that they would use the same kit you point out?

      Do you think in any way it would alter the ability to do future upgrades?

       

      I also like the idea of the Direct out and amp speaker simultaneously? idea.

      Maybe all of this (paying for a pro's labor) adds up to a Spider Valve and I should save my pennies and trade up - maybe not because the 75W starting price at $299 is far less than a SV112 - what do you think?

       

      I really would like to use other effects with this amp in the post position and use a direct out without shutting off my speaker - it would be soooo perfect then.

       

      I subscribed to these topics, hoping that others would continue the conversations but they seem to be dead now.

      • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User
        spaceatl
        3,833 posts since
        Jan 24, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 8, 2010 7:47 PM (in response to Hey_Joe)
        Re: Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

        hmmm....I almost think you should go after a Flextone III. It has the FX control, XLRs and a switchable loop...Hands down it is a better amp to record with than my SV112 in terms of the quality of the direct...

         

        I don't see how messing about with the analog side of the amp would mess up the ability to update in terms of the FX Loop mod. There is risk with these things as you know so I will just leave that where it is....That's an invasive mod and any attempt like that should be taken knowing that the amp might get fried...

         

        Anyway, the least invasive mod would be to add a direct box...That would give you the direct with the amp on...In terms of the FX loop, I don't think the expense is really worth it...It would end up costing you a couple of hours of labor and I tend to think that you could get another amp that fit the needs better...But there is fun in modifying these things...And if you really like the amp and really believe that putting an FX loop in would get you what you really want, then that is harder to price...Just a risk you have weigh for yourself...I kinda like the idea of trading for an SV...I love mine...keeping that one and the Flexy forever...

        • Hey_Joe Iknowathingortwo
          Hey_Joe
          600 posts since
          Jan 24, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Mar 9, 2010 9:14 AM (in response to spaceatl)
          Re: Theoretically, can  a FX Loop be added to Spider IV?

          Thanks for the reply man.

          spaceatl wrote:

           

          hmmm....I almost think you should go after a Flextone III. It has the FX control, XLRs and a switchable loop...Hands down it is a better amp to record with than my SV112 in terms of the quality of the direct...

          I took a good look at the Flextone III Plus but the price tag thru me and the fact that it seemed to be no longer carried by numerous vendors troubled me. I thought it may be on the way out from Line6 and thought maybe something new will replace it and figured the Spider IV 75 would fit my wallet for now  (it's really only a back up to my X3L although seems worthy of using whenever the feeling strikes). I thought down the Line I would make a decision to go with an amp for good and leave the POD behind - still weighing the options.

           

          I don't see how messing about with the analog side of the amp would mess up the ability to update in terms of the FX Loop mod. There is risk with these things as you know so I will just leave that where it is....That's an invasive mod and any attempt like that should be taken knowing that the amp might get fried...No, I didn't know it was asking for possible problems - I know jack about amps...just used them and replaced them before my first POD, an XTL, with an effects board.

           

          Anyway, the least invasive mod would be to add a direct box...I wish I understood what you guys talked about on that thread and would like to have the ability to have the box.That would give you the direct with the amp on...In terms of the FX loop, I don't think the expense is really worth it...It would end up costing you a couple of hours of labor and I tend to think that you could get another amp that fit the needs better...so I'll save my pennies and start thinking of an amp with alll the functions that I would like to have, like the SV. But there is fun in modifying these things...And if you really like the amp and really believe that putting an FX loop in would get you what you really want, then that is harder to price...Just a risk you have weigh for yourself...besides terminating the warranty I had no idea there is a risk of wasting the amp...didn't know you amp mod guys were living so dangerously. I'm not willing to waste even a $300 amp for these new bells and whistles - so I'll hope to find out more on the DI box...sounds like that would be worth the money if it wouldn't harm the amp..I kinda like the idea of trading for an SV...I love mine...keeping that one and the Flexy forever...

           

          Thanks for your time and answers.

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