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2686 Views 6 Replies Latest reply: Mar 21, 2010 6:54 AM by neilwork RSS
wenmiester Just Startin' 6 posts since
Nov 16, 2009
Currently Being Moderated

Feb 2, 2010 9:49 PM

Need advice on electronics for LP variax project

Hello,

 

     Thanks again to this community and the inspiration and information you offer.

 

     I'm about to start my variax transplant.  I've got a donor variax 500 in and I'm having a guitar custom built by a local luthier that will ultimately have 2 mag pickups (LP style), variax electronics, and a graph tech hexpander board (along with graph tech ghost bridge), all in a les paul style body.  We would like to setup the electronics so they're as minimalist as possible and as true to the LP look as possible.  Obviously with so much electronics on board, this is going to be quite a challenge.

 

     I've read up on this forum and gotten some good ideas from several members.  It seems that one solution (or dead end, depending on how you look at it), is to invest in expensive custom pots to provide complex-yet-minimalist controls.  At this point, I'm interested in exploring other solutions.  In particular, I'd like some advice on the possibility of using a switch to change the function of pots, push-pull pots, and rotary switches and if possible, some detailed diagrams of how to achieve this (my luthier may or may not know how to do this, but the more I can help him, the faster/cheaper this projects happens).

 

     Let me give some more specifics.  I have no need to blend any of the 3 parts/outputs (I'm somewhat interested in blending mag pups with hex, but I can leave that out if it makes the whole electronic setup more simple & thus more successful).  However, I would like to use just one 1/4" jack for both the mag pup and variax output, instead of 2 separate jacks.

 

     I've included a diagram of my setup (thanks to Matt_G for his diagram and knob ideas).  Learning from Matt_G's inquiry, I see that the expensive custom pots come into play when you try to combine any of the variax volume/tone controls with other functions.  I understand that this is because variax uses 10K pots, while LP uses 250/500K pots, so you would have to have a custom built push-pull pot or concentric pot built that can do both 10K and 250/500K.      

 

Pots:

Avoiding that problem, I would instead like to use 3 push-pull pots: 1) Mag neck volume(push)/tone(pull)  2) Mag bridge volume(push)/tone(pull)  3) Variax volume(push)/tone(pull).  This puts variax on its own potentiometer... the question is, can I find a push/pull 10K pot?  And how expensive will it be?

 

Classic LP 3-way switch:

I would like to keep the classic LP 3-way switch both in its classic location and as its classic function, namely, that of mag pickup selector.  I like the quick access of this switch and would prefer it in this form as opposed to on a rotary switch (like Matt_G's diagram).  However, this would also be an ideal place to instead put the 3-way output switch of Mag/Variax/Hex, particularly since I'm not interested in blending any of them.  But I would prefer to have the mag pickup selector here instead.

 

Rotary Switch:

This moves me to the problem of trying to fit hex volume, 3-way output switch, and variax 5-way switch into one more knob for a total of 5.  Here's what I'm thinking:  I could make one of the mag push/pull pots serve as a volume pot for the hex (only when it's selected, thus the pot would change functions based on the 3-way output switch).  I then could have a 5-way push/pull rotary switch where push is the 3-way output selector and pull is the 5-way variax selector.  In order for this to work, I need to know:

1. What is the ohm reading for the hex volume pot?  If it's 250 or 500K this would work quite well with one of the mag volume/tone pots.

2. Do they make push/pull rotary switches?  Are they expensive?

 

Other switches:

I'll also be including the original variax model selector switch and the hex program up/down switch.

 

So the guitar would look like this:

 

guitar-layout-2.jpg
So to review, here are my questions:
1. Can I find a push/pull 10K pot? Cheap?
2. What is the ohm reading for the graph tech Hex volume pot?
3. Do they make push/pull rotary switches? Cheap?
4. How should we route the wiring for mag/variax/hex?  Specifically, how should we route the wiring for the variax and hex, particularly in terms of how they connect to the graph tech piezo pickups?  In other words, do the piezos first connect to the variax or the hex, and then how do you route/switch them to the other circuit board?
thanks for all the help and I'm looking forward to your advice.
  • gitarzan53 Just Startin' 203 posts since
    Apr 28, 2006

    I admire your plan, however it seems to depend on some unlikely scenarios. Mostly, it's all the push-pullness. Are you talking about having each pot switch function from volume to tone, or having dual-concentric (two pots on one shaft) pots? Either way, it's dicey functionality. As far as the rotary switch with a push-pull, I've never heard of one. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I've never heard of such a thing. Your first task would be to locate the parts you'll need. You might try www.digikey.com, since they have a ton of stuff.

     

    Let me know what you're thinking about the pots being two on one shaft, or trying to get one pot to function as both volume and tone.

      • gitarzan53 Just Startin' 203 posts since
        Apr 28, 2006
        Currently Being Moderated
        Feb 6, 2010 12:42 PM (in response to wenmiester)
        Re: Need advice on electronics for LP variax project

        Sorry for the slow response. A push-pull pot is just a combination of a switch of some kind, such as spst (single pole, single throw) or dpdt (double pole, double throw) stuck on the back of a potentiometer. They have nothing to do with each other, as far as one interplaying with the other's functionality. I think you want it to switch what that pot is controlling when you push or pull on the switch, which ain't gonna happen. If you have a concentric pot with two separate pots, they share a shaft, but can be controlled separately or together, depending on the pot.

         

        I hope that answers most of your post, but I don't think it's the answer you wanted to hear. Most of your design is based on how you thought  push-pull pots functioned. I used a push-pull on my transplant just because I didn't want a separate switch on the face of the guitar for switching between the vax and the pickup. The pot it's on controls the volume of the pickup. In other words, when the switch is pushed down, the pot is functionless. Pull up on it and it switches the output of the signal from the vax circuit to the pickup path, and thus the pot controls the volume. Your design might make more sense if you used double pots to control the same function for each set (one double set controls tone, one for pickups, one for vax, and another controls volume for both of those paths).

         

        I feel like I'm raining on your parade, but there's several assumptions you're making that are critical to your design and I think those assumptions are all wrong. I doubt you're going to find anything like the rotary switch you want, and without the push pull working like you wanted it to, it all adds up to way more switches and pots than you planned. It really depends on how many pots you want on the face of your axe, but I think you want as few as possible. If that's the case, here's what I recommend: follow the jeff miller-rose designs, circuit-wise. I would change the pickup circuit to a master volume-master tone type, rather than have separate volume and tone for each pickup, like a gibson. When a  pickup or both are selected, the circuit goes through two pots...one volume, one tone. You're just selecting which pickup or both that are going to take that path. That's two knobs, or one concentric. If you try and do the same for the vax circuit, you run into problems. Since the vax volume is already a double pot, and you try and add a third one for tone, it makes that shaft pretty long AND they have different values. That means you have to scour the earth for a 3 pot shaft that has the right ohms OR you have to custom make one. You'll have the vax selector and the hex volume. That's 6 knobs, unless you solve the vax volume/tone on one pot problem, That would be 5. As far as the pickup selector, I would stick with the vax one for the simple reason that you could use one switch for both mag and vax pickup selection. I know it doesn't go with the gibson look, but it's the lesser of the evils, because without it, you're talking ANOTHER knob!

         

        If you want to use a gibson-like pickup selector to switch between the 3 circuit paths, then you need a special switch. A common 3 way one only has two selections and the third is a combination of the two selections...not what you want. You want 3 distinct selections. For that you'd get the same switch I got from stew-mac. It's for 3 pickup gibsons and does give you 3 distinct paths.

         

        I really hope this all helps, but I'm sure it bums you out. Keep checking around or maybe someone reading this will have a better solution for you or can figure out how to make yours work. Good luck! Let me know if you have any questions about my post.

          • gitarzan53 Just Startin' 203 posts since
            Apr 28, 2006

            Having the ability to make your own, combining linear or audio taper pots of different values is really the heart of your solution. It is possible, as others on here have shown. If you or someone you know can do that, it would go a long way towards getting you what you want (fewer knobs!). Keep in mind though, if you stack more than 2, it starts becoming an issue for thickness. Luckily, a carved top gives you even more to work with, so you may be in luck there too.

  • neilwork Just Startin' 29 posts since
    Mar 5, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 21, 2010 6:54 AM (in response to wenmiester)
    Re: Need advice on electronics for LP variax project

    Hi there

    I know you didn't ask but......


    This may save you push / pulling pots AND adding that extra 5th pot!!

     

    Preserve the look of your LP!!


    There's a new 6-position switch available now which replaces and looks just like a traditional Gibson 3-way toggle switch


    It's called a Free-way switch, (avail. in chrome and gold)

     


    - it's at Stewmac.com

    here's the link:

    http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/Free-Way_Pickup_Switch.html


    and a pic:

     

    cheers Neil

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