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1024 Views 26 Replies Latest reply: Jan 10, 2011 3:49 PM by jjgimlour RSS
jjgimlour Just Startin'
jjgimlour
78 posts since
Aug 14, 2008
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Dec 15, 2010 11:32 AM

Static build up

Just wondering if anyone has had any static problems when playing live with the HD500, or I just have a faulty unit? Every timt I put my face near my mic and step on the HD I get a shock from the mic Now as hilarious as this seems to be for my singer, it's bloddy sore for me. When I don't step on the HD I'm fine. I've tried swapping absolutely everything over except for the HD but still the same happens. The only time I don't get shocked is when I use a cordless mic, which I hate, but if it stops me getting blown up I'm willing to put up with it. I don't want to take the unit back if it's not faulty so thought I would ask if anyone else has had any similar stories.

  • phil_m Expert Line 6 User
    phil_m
    4,243 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
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    Dec 15, 2010 11:41 AM (in response to jjgimlour)
    Re: Static build up

    That shouldn't be happening (not that you didn't know that, lol...).  From your description, it sounds like there's a ground wire loose somewhere.  It could be within the HD500 itself, or it could be in your mic or mic cable.  If you've tried swapping mics and cables, it seems like the HD500 may be the culprit.

    • jjgimlour Just Startin'
      jjgimlour
      78 posts since
      Aug 14, 2008
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      Dec 15, 2010 11:57 AM (in response to phil_m)
      Re: Static build up

      The only other thing which is new is the actual mic stand but surely it wouldn't be that?

      It's weird as the only time I'm getting shocked is when I touch the mic, so I must be creating some sort of electrical loop (excuse my ignorance it's a long time since I studied physics ) My singer spent the entire weekend rolling around the floor laughing every time I stepped up to do some harmonies, as well as most of the audience

      • Rowbi Expert Line 6 User
        Rowbi
        7,745 posts since
        Nov 25, 2006
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        Dec 15, 2010 12:16 PM (in response to jjgimlour)
        Re: Static build up

        I just read your last post.  If it,s simply just because you are touching your mic and getting a shock... Could it be that your socks are made of polyester and your building static walking around, then when you touch your mic it earths.  I had something similar a few years back when I got some socks for Xmas... So just as a test, could you try going bare foot (not at a gig, but just as a test), and see what happens?

      • phil_m Expert Line 6 User
        phil_m
        4,243 posts since
        Jan 25, 2007
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        Dec 15, 2010 12:30 PM (in response to jjgimlour)
        Re: Static build up

        Well, generally how this happens is there a fault (in the electrical sense) somewhere in the circuit going to your mic.  What that means is that one of the hot conductors is touching the metal housing of the equipment.  This could be in the HD500 itself, or it could be in your mic.  Electrical current will follow the path of least resistance, so if there's no connection to ground at some point, you become the path of least resistance, so the fault current flows through you.

         

        Now with the HD500, you're dealing with low voltage, so that's why you're just receiving a minor shock.  When this happens with bigger equipment like amplifiers, you end up with people getting blown across the stage.  That's what happened to James Hetfield once during a show.  He went to sing into the mic, and as soon as he touched the mic, he was literally blown back across the stage from the shock.  So these things can be dangerous.

  • Rowbi Expert Line 6 User
    Rowbi
    7,745 posts since
    Nov 25, 2006
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    Dec 15, 2010 12:09 PM (in response to jjgimlour)
    Re: Static build up

    Wow that's an odd one.  So it specifically ONLY happens when your face touches your microphone AND you press a footswitch on your POD both at the same time...?  If that is the case then  it would suggest that something to do with the action of the switch is something to do with the spark generation.  That doesn't mean that the fault is with the POD, as it could be to do with a faulty ground somewhere else.  The ground in he pod would be through the power supply, then through the buildings electrical socket.  Assuming everything has been swapped (Inc mic, cable, pod psu, and also tested in another building for a comparison supply. ) then I would suspect an issue with the pod.  Cheers  Rowbi

  • Zaserty Just Startin'
    Zaserty
    25 posts since
    Sep 29, 2008
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    Dec 15, 2010 12:13 PM (in response to jjgimlour)
    Re: Static build up

    I had the same thing happen while setting up to play this club with my HD500. Connections were, Left 1/4 to powered monitor and 2 XLR's to FOH.

    It was a nice wake up everytime my lips touched the MIC. Switching the XLR ground switch to ground to the left of the expression pedal fixed it.

    Hope its as easy a fix for you too.

     

    Z

    • jjgimlour Just Startin'
      jjgimlour
      78 posts since
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      Dec 15, 2010 12:22 PM (in response to Zaserty)
      Re: Static build up

      This sounds like you may be onto something here as I tried everything else, including swapping the power supply over to my X3's supply, but with the same results. I'll try flicking the XLR switch to ground and let you know how I get on, thanks. If I don't come back on you can visit me in Glasgow Royal Infirmary......................the burns unit no doubt

      Rowbi it's not just when I'm switching patches, but also when I'm using the EXP pedal as well.

      • Zaserty Just Startin'
        Zaserty
        25 posts since
        Sep 29, 2008
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        Dec 15, 2010 12:27 PM (in response to jjgimlour)
        Re: Static build up

        I had gone through the same thing as far as power source is concerned..then I remembered that switch and..voila!

      • phil_m Expert Line 6 User
        phil_m
        4,243 posts since
        Jan 25, 2007
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        Dec 15, 2010 12:35 PM (in response to jjgimlour)
        Re: Static build up

        The ground lift switch could solve the problem, although, if it does, that's a bit fishy.  The ground lift switch should be calibrated so that there's a resistor that prevents nuisance currents from leaking to ground, but that allow currents that are big enough to shock you to pass through.  You shouldn't be getting shocked with the switch in either position.

        • Zaserty Just Startin'
          Zaserty
          25 posts since
          Sep 29, 2008
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          Dec 15, 2010 12:54 PM (in response to phil_m)
          Re: Static build up

          I've used my HD500 in 4 different clubs so far and this happened at the second one....did everything I can think off...changed power outlets, switched mic, xlr cables..the only resolution was that switch. Since then, the last 2 clubs, I've tested with the XLR switch in either position out of curiosity and no shocks at all.

          • phil_m Expert Line 6 User
            phil_m
            4,243 posts since
            Jan 25, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Dec 15, 2010 1:12 PM (in response to Zaserty)
            Re: Static build up

            I don't doubt what you say is true.  It's just that generally using a ground lift switch shouldn't determine whether you get shocked or not.  I suppose it could just be that there's enough nuisance current in the system that it's generating enough of a shock for you to feel but not pass through the ground lift resistor in some instances.  It's just kind of an odd thing to happen.

          • jjgimlour Just Startin'
            jjgimlour
            78 posts since
            Aug 14, 2008
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            Jan 10, 2011 3:49 PM (in response to Zaserty)
            Re: Static build up
            1. Thanks man, my lips are now back to normal due to no more shocks
            2. Although I think Line 6 need to look at this as there's obviously a problem somewhere.
            3. Just one problem now.....since I've turned the ground lift switch off all my settings are squealing like a stuck pig through the PA system....not happy at all
      • Rowbi Expert Line 6 User
        Rowbi
        7,745 posts since
        Nov 25, 2006
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        Dec 17, 2010 12:08 AM (in response to jjgimlour)
        Re: Static build up

        jjgimlour wrote:

         

        This sounds like you may be onto something here as I tried everything else, including swapping the power supply over to my X3's supply, but with the same results. I'll try flicking the XLR switch to ground and let you know how I get on, thanks. If I don't come back on you can visit me in Glasgow Royal Infirmary......................the burns unit no doubt

        Rowbi it's not just when I'm switching patches, but also when I'm using the EXP pedal as well.

         

        Just noticed you said you tried testing your pod hd with an x3 power supply... Wow are lucky you didn't fry you pod hd... X3 uses AC power supply and pod hd uses DC... I have seen a few people in the past fry their older AC pods by buying more readily available universal DC supplies, and BANG, a dead pod.  I think line 6 have made the right choice to swap to DC, as when you need a replacement, they are easier to get hold of as universal supplies, but you do need to be careful with supplies... They are all similar looking, but with all electrical devices you need to check the output voltage, current and type (AC/DC).  There are also regulated and unregulated supplies which can also cause issues... It's a bit of a mine field if you don't know... But I though I would post this in case anyone else sees your post about testing an hd with an x3 psu.  Cheers. Rowbi

        • jjgimlour Just Startin'
          jjgimlour
          78 posts since
          Aug 14, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Dec 18, 2010 6:19 AM (in response to Rowbi)
          Re: Static build up

          Yes I know Rowbi, it seems I'm not very bright at times I just saw it said 9v and thought, 'you'll do' when I really should have read the thing a wee bit more carefully. Thank God I didn't have it in there for any more than a couple of minutes otherwise I might be on the X3 forum right now

          Anyway, a mistake I won't be repeating.

  • timowens Gear Head
    timowens
    1,230 posts since
    May 14, 2007
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    Dec 15, 2010 4:02 PM (in response to jjgimlour)
    Re: Static build up

    Sounds like a ground loop, have you tried plugging the HD into different outlets? You might look at getting one of these http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html they are a bit spendy but I've had good success eliminating ground loops with it (a good thing to have in your gig bag for sure). Other than that, get a wind screen for your mic, it will act as an insulator and prevent this problem, whenever I had this problem with my SM58 I switched over to an SM57 because the windscreen on it is isolated from ground and it got me through the gig. Hope this helps...

  • mdmayfield Just Startin'
    mdmayfield
    353 posts since
    Feb 24, 2007
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    Dec 15, 2010 4:54 PM (in response to jjgimlour)
    Re: Static build up

     

    That can sometimes be a sign that something is royally messed up with the venue's wiring. It's a potentially lethal situation - get one of those $9 outlet testers with the three lights and check every AC outlet you plug into. If any of them are not wired correctly, you are exposing yourself to the possibility of fatal shock. Don't play unless the wiring is up to code!

     

    OR, it may be from using one of the 3-prong to 2-prong AC adapters. Don't ever use those. It's like playing Russian Roulette.

     

    Meanwhile, try to make sure all the sound equipment (including PA) is on the same circuit; this will minimize the problem. It is a good idea to separate lights and put them on another circuit.

    • jjgimlour Just Startin'
      jjgimlour
      78 posts since
      Aug 14, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Dec 15, 2010 5:07 PM (in response to mdmayfield)
      Re: Static build up

      This happened at 3 different venues over the weekend so it's not the venues wiring, and 2 of those we play every month and this has never happened. I'm in the UK so the power cable we are given has 2 pins and the adapter has 3. But like I said earlier I tried my X3 power cable and the same thing happened. I'm going to try the ground switch and see if it's that as I think this sounds like the most likely explanation.

      • toneman2121 Gear Head
        toneman2121
        1,985 posts since
        Oct 15, 2006
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 15, 2010 6:14 PM (in response to jjgimlour)
        Re: Static build up

        i'm assuming you are touching the guitar strings when this happens. have you tried another guitar?

        • jjgimlour Just Startin'
          jjgimlour
          78 posts since
          Aug 14, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Dec 16, 2010 3:04 AM (in response to toneman2121)
          Re: Static build up

          Yes I tried several other guitars but alas all with the same result. The only thing which hasn't been removed and replaced from the loop like for like is the HD. It was fine with the X3 in the loop so the problem is almost definitely with the HD.

          • JCJCJC Just Startin'
            JCJCJC
            44 posts since
            Dec 6, 2006
            Currently Being Moderated
            Dec 16, 2010 4:09 PM (in response to jjgimlour)
            Re: Static build up

            Hi,

            The HD 500 is powered via a DC supply and there is no ground via the power connection ( you notice that your power supply only has two prongs, right?), so I suspect that the ground connection is happening from a connection to the PA, which is where I suspect your ground loop issue is.  Certainly, the HD 's were fully tested when they were submitted to safety agencies for the appropriate approvals. There is one test, try dicsonnecting the HD from any  audio source, but leave the unit plugged in, if the problem goes away,  your PA is the suspect. 

             

            It is a curious problem and I do recommend great caution  while troubleshooting.

             

            Here's an article about ground loops that I found:

             

            http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/

             

             

            Ultimately, we are certainly happy to take a look at the unit for you.  Looks like you are based in the UK, so you could contact our office there to obtain an RMA to have a technician look at the unit.

             

            Line 6, Inc.
            4 Sopwith Way
            Drayton Fields Industrial Estate
            Daventry, Northamptonshire
            United Kingdom, NN118PB

             

            Telefon: +44 (0) 1327 302 700
            Fax: +44 (0) 1327 302 702

             

            Hope this helps, if it does, please don't forget to mark your post answered....

      • LoonyBin-Fizzbin Gear Head
        LoonyBin-Fizzbin
        2,071 posts since
        Mar 26, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 17, 2010 2:04 AM (in response to jjgimlour)
        Re: Static build up

        Can you list all your gear that is interconnected to your HD?

         

        Guitar, PA, Stage Amps, other pedals?

        • jjgimlour Just Startin'
          jjgimlour
          78 posts since
          Aug 14, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Dec 18, 2010 6:26 AM (in response to LoonyBin-Fizzbin)
          Re: Static build up

          Sure here goes. Pretty basic set up of guitar into pod. Pod out via the XLR left into the desk which is a Mackie CFX. Desk then out into HK Elias PX powered speakers. I use a satellite speaker from the HK as a monitor so don't really need any amp or separate monitor for the POD.

          Hold on a wee minute I've just thought of something here, but it's probably nothing. The desk is running on phantom power, would that make a difference? I know with the X3 you couldn't use a mic which required phantom power into the unit, which was a pain in the bum as I use a Shure SM 87A for live, and most of my studio mics are all phantom powered. Just a thought but like I said it's probably not related.

          • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
            Nick_Mattocks
            9,065 posts since
            Mar 26, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Dec 19, 2010 9:45 AM (in response to jjgimlour)
            Re: Static build up

            48v phantom power might give you a bit of a tingle for sure.  Some XLR mic leads tie pin 2 to the XLR plug case which is grounded and some don't.  When grouned, this can sometimes lead to ground loops and it defeats true isolation.  There may well be something here that you need to look into.  For the application you are using XLR leads for - HD500 to desk, you would probably be better making sure that the 'screen' braided wire inside the XLR cable is fully grounded by bridging to the XLR plug casings at both ends .  This will ensure that your guitar is properly grounded, and I suggest you check the XLR lead you use for your mic is similarly treated.  That way both devices that you are likely to touch at the same time (guitar and mic) will be grounded via the desk.

             

            Nick

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