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2268 Views 16 Replies Latest reply: Jan 22, 2011 7:48 AM by Rowbi RSS
JB1973 Just Startin'
JB1973
604 posts since
Apr 19, 2008
Currently Being Moderated

Jan 19, 2011 3:51 PM

DT50 control

So...the dt50 is basically an amazing sounding 4 channel amp that cannot change channels???  Without walking and dialing by hand every time. And I don't mean channel A to B of the same voicing I am referring to clean, crunch, chime etc.

 

Please make the hd500 able to switch dt50 channels. It needs to be able to save and apply tone controls/voicing etc for the AMP not just its own pre/amp models.

How can you have this great flexible amp and cut it off at the waist by not having ability to change the voicings???

 

People say the hd500 has the same preamps as the amp but I (and many others on the forums) cannot make the hd500/dt50 just sound like the dt50 alone. Furthermore we shouldn't have to try and mimic what we already bought and paid for the amp is sitting right there! Others say it should be possible using midi control from the PodHD but there is no documentation or video showing how this is possible. If you use the midi control from the hd do you still get the M effects? what about record out features? All the info is there but unaccessable with "amp off" in the HD parameters.

 

I just don't understand how any amp company would make and sell a expensive "botiquish" amp and not give you control over it.....how many people bought the amp and returned it because they couldnt change the freakin channels? Or just didn't buy it to begin with. I paid an extra $500 for the touted complete control over the amp and seamless integration with the L6 link (variax input and recording abilities as well to be honest). But I am still waiting for this to be available.

 

I am frustrated from reading through manuals, and  forums for hours and hours each week, seeing others making the same or similar statements and I have found no answers. There just seems to be a gaping hole here, did L6 really intend for this amp to not stand alone.  Because it is good enough to and should be able to.  Honestly If L6 would come out with a midi controller to save and recall vocings on all 4 channels with a dozen effects build in ...I'd probably sell my hd500 and just buy that..but I was under the impression the hd500 could do just that.

 

BTW I posted this here in an attempt for some L6 employee to respond.

  • arcticman Just Startin'
    arcticman
    114 posts since
    Feb 6, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 19, 2011 11:05 PM (in response to JB1973)
    Re: DT50 control

    I agree

     

    The four DT50 voicings are great, I prefer the DT50 models over the HD500 equivalent amp models.

     

    Hopefully soon, L6 will update the firmware to allow complete control of the DT50 with the HD500.

     

    Cheers

  • whiteop Just Startin'
    whiteop
    415 posts since
    Dec 5, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 19, 2011 10:44 PM (in response to JB1973)
    Re: DT50 control

    Agree with OP. If Line 6 really wants to sell a lot of DT50s it should be midi programmable to allow operation of the controls that are normally done by the HD500. Why they didn't make it where you could switch channels (A and B) on the amp from the HD500 makes me wonder if they overlooked the fact that someone might want to do that. Since the DT50 is controlled via midi through the HD500 I'm willing to bet that if you knew the right addresses you could probably use a 3rd party midi controller to control the amp. I've done something like that in the past on several rack mfx units.

  • Rowbi Expert Line 6 User
    Rowbi
    7,745 posts since
    Nov 25, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 20, 2011 12:39 AM (in response to JB1973)
    Re: DT50 control

    JB1973 wrote:

     

    So...the dt50 is basically an amazing sounding 4 channel amp that cannot change channels???  Without walking and dialing by hand every time. And I don't mean channel A to B of the same voicing I am referring to clean, crunch, chime etc.

     

    you can choose whichever of the 4 voicings you like for channel A and then whichever of the 4 voicings for channel B, and then switch them using a simple on/off footswitch....

     

    I think the idea of this amp was to be 2 things. firstly a very simple tube amp, but that has the little extra ability to give you more than just a clean and dirty channel... think of the Marshall DSL amps, they are just the same with having 2 channels, but being able to go from clean to plexi on 1 channel and plexi to hot rodded JCM800 on the other channel.  same with a boogie, you have switches to voice the channels but you have to visit the front panel to do some of that...

     

    Is it just Line 6, or if you'd bought a marshall or boogie, would you ask the same questions?

     

     

    JB1973 wrote:


    People say the hd500 has the same preamps as the amp but I (and many others on the forums) cannot make the hd500/dt50 just sound like the dt50 alone. Furthermore we shouldn't have to try and mimic what we already bought and paid for the amp is sitting right there! Others say it should be possible using midi control from the PodHD but there is no documentation or video showing how this is possible. If you use the midi control from the hd do you still get the M effects? what about record out features? All the info is there but unaccessable with "amp off" in the HD parameters.

     

    I just don't understand how any amp company would make and sell a expensive "botiquish" amp and not give you control over it.....how many people bought the amp and returned it because they couldnt change the freakin channels? Or just didn't buy it to begin with. I paid an extra $500 for the touted complete control over the amp and seamless integration with the L6 link (variax input and recording abilities as well to be honest). But I am still waiting for this to be available.

     

    I am frustrated from reading through manuals, and  forums for hours and hours each week, seeing others making the same or similar statements and I have found no answers. There just seems to be a gaping hole here, did L6 really intend for this amp to not stand alone.  Because it is good enough to and should be able to.  Honestly If L6 would come out with a midi controller to save and recall vocings on all 4 channels with a dozen effects build in ...I'd probably sell my hd500 and just buy that..but I was under the impression the hd500 could do just that.

     

    BTW I posted this here in an attempt for some L6 employee to respond.

    someone from L6 responded to another thread saying that the MIDI info for the DT50 is being worked on, which makes me think they are still perhaps working on the finer details... you may find thay're working on what you want.

  • wolbai Just Startin'
    wolbai
    177 posts since
    Mar 30, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 20, 2011 4:24 AM (in response to JB1973)
    Re: DT50 control

    Hi, JB1973.

     

    I'm a DT50/212 + HD500-owner and like to give you my experiences in that context.

     

    When I first tried the DT50 on it's own and later connected it to the HD500 I came to the same conclusionas you: the DT50 does sound better on it's own. The HD500 can not produce the 4 DT50 voicings tonewise - unbelieveable! I then wrote a feature request to line6 that they should come up with DT50-models (Pre / Full amp) as ASAP to really control the dt50 via the HDs. So far, so good.

     

    I then made some testings (with the original firmware and today with latest fw-release). Here are my personal outcomes:

     

    1. I programmed inside the HD500 the same settings as you can find on top of the DT50 (4 voicings) with the following PRE models:

     

      I: BF Double PRE, Class A (and in a leter test Class A/B too), Pentode, EQing like the recommended ones on top of the DT50.

    II: Park-75 PRE, Class A/B, Pentode, EQing like the recommended ones on top of the DT50.

    III: Class A-30 TB PRE, Class A, Pentode, EQing like the recommended ones on top of the DT50.

    IV: Angel F-Ball Pre (in the first firmware-version it was the Treadplate PRE amp model), Class A/B, Pentode, EQing like the recommended ones on top of the DT50.

     

    I choosed No Cab on all HD500-patches I tested.

     

    2. I then played all of the 4 voicings, at first direct through the DT50, at second via the HD500/L6-Link. The master volume was at the same level and in normal mode (master volume not pulled out).

     

    My simple result is: I could not realize any real differences tonewise. The testing was not at 100% best. So I didn't try each of the voicings at every volume-level because I did the testing at home. I didn't record each testing to compare it afterwords. So there is some kind of subjectivity. None the less: with the above mentioned PRE models and DT50-settings I am pretty sure that you can get a very similar tone via the HD500 as you would run the dt50 in a standalone mode.

     

    Hope that helps. Regards!

    • JB1973 Just Startin'
      JB1973
      604 posts since
      Apr 19, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 20, 2011 6:29 AM (in response to wolbai)
      Re: DT50 control

      Rowbi stated

      "Is it just Line 6, or if you'd bought a marshall or boogie, would you ask the same questions?"

       

      Um .. yes if I bought a Marshal, fender whatever and could not change the "channel" from clean to drive I would be complaining. There are quite a few three channel amps for multiple types of sounds from one amp and you know what...they all come with a footswitch. Again changing from A to B in the dt50 's case is not the same thing because if you do not have a podhd you are only getting two versions of the same "channel or topology".

       

      I am looking at this more as a owner of a $1500 amp then the owner of a effect/preamp box and a amp...which still cannot work IMO as intended together. If you had only bought the amp.. liked the sounds.. would you keep it? probably not because it is not fully accessable as is. This amp could be marketed to lots of different markets if it was more accessable. If they do not make it so, it will be off the "flagship" status sooner rather than later.

       

      "someone from L6 responded to another thread saying that the MIDI info for the DT50 is being worked on, which makes me think they are still perhaps working on the finer details... you may find thay're working on what you want."

       

      this is good news, very good news... I hope it is soon. Late in my book whenever it comes out but good news I hope this is the case.

       

      Wolbai stated

      "When I first tried the DT50 on it's own and later connected it to the HD500 I came to the same conclusionas you: the DT50 does sound better on it's own. The HD500 can not produce the 4 DT50 voicings tonewise - unbelieveable! I then wrote a feature request to line6 that they should come up with DT50-models (Pre / Full amp) as ASAP to really control the dt50 via the HDs. So far, so good.".............................

      "My simple result is: I could not realize any real differences tonewise. The testing was not at 100% best. So I didn't try each of the voicings at every volume-level because I did the testing at home. I didn't record each testing to compare it afterwords. So there is some kind of subjectivity. None the less: with the above mentioned PRE models and DT50-settings I am pretty sure that you can get a very similar tone via the HD500 as you would run the dt50 in a standalone mode.

       

      Hope that helps. Regards!"

       

       

      I will give this another go. I did a similar test too with channel A being the podhd and channel b being the tone I wanted to create. And although I was able to see a resemblence I still had to say the amp sounded bigger, fuller more alive.  L6 including the tone settings for the amp with the flyer on top provided is one of the best things they did in this deal imo. Wish they had done something similar for the pod for a few channels.  I will try this again this weekend when I have time. I would love to have the same results!

      • Rowbi Expert Line 6 User
        Rowbi
        7,745 posts since
        Nov 25, 2006
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 20, 2011 7:28 AM (in response to JB1973)
        Re: DT50 control

        JB1973 wrote:

         

        Rowbi stated

        "Is it just Line 6, or if you'd bought a marshall or boogie, would you ask the same questions?"

         

        Um .. yes if I bought a Marshal, fender whatever and could not change the "channel" from clean to drive I would be complaining. There are quite a few three channel amps for multiple types of sounds from one amp and you know what...they all come with a footswitch. Again changing from A to B in the dt50 's case is not the same thing because if you do not have a podhd you are only getting two versions of the same "channel or topology".

        you misunderstand me.  the Marshall DSL is a 4 channel amp, 2 lead channels, a clean and a crunch, but there's only 2 channels you can switch with a footswitch.  you pick either lead 1 or 2 for 1 channel, and clean or crunch for the other channel.  the DT50 is the same, except you can pick any of the 4 channels for A and any of the 4 channels for B.

        A dual recto head (perhaps one of the most well known high gain amps) has 5 sounds but only 3 channels.  chan 1 is only clean or pushed, chan 2 and 3 are raw, vintage high gain or modern high gain.  only the channels are footswitchable, none of the actual sounds are...

         

        So I ask you again, if you bought either of them, would you really complain to marshall or mesa that their stated 2 and 3 channel amps should be able to switch all the otehr sounds???  when the DT50 clearly states that it is a 2 channel amp....

        http://line6.com/dt50/

         

        would it have been better if line 6 had provided the 4 voicings switch twice... once for each of the 2 channels.  would that have looked like the 4 sounds were just part of 2 channels (which is the case)???

         

        Not trying to get at you, but you've got more flexibility that either of those 2 other amps, because you can use all 4 sounds on either channel (the boogie doesn't do that and it's twice the cost of the DT50 head)...

         

        Peace

         

        Rowbi

      • JB1973 Just Startin'
        JB1973
        604 posts since
        Apr 19, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 22, 2011 7:40 AM (in response to JB1973)
        Re: DT50 control

        I showed my arse in here,  somehow I got it in my head that the dt50 without assitance does not switch  voicings (at all) and that channel A and B were of the same voicing always. When  my amp spazzed out on me yesterday (voicing 3 lost its balls somehow and  I had to reinstall firmware), I did find the amp (after reinstall) was  remembering different voicings per channel A and B, without using the hd500. So most of my  complaints went out of the window with that seeminly obvious revelation. In light of this I would call this a 2 channel amp, before it to me was a 1 channel amp as it only was making one sound althought you could tweak for two tonal variations. But I think its important to not only to acknowledge my findings but  also my mistakes.

        I would note that I am still looking foward if it happens to switching between all 4 through the pod as it will save dsp and I believe in the end be more flexible.

         

        Thanks for everyone's help.

        • Rowbi Expert Line 6 User
          Rowbi
          7,745 posts since
          Nov 25, 2006
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jan 22, 2011 7:48 AM (in response to JB1973)
          Re: DT50 control

          no worries.  we're all human, and I respect you for trying to push forward your ideas about bettering this gear, and also for coming back to fill us in.

           

          JB1973 wrote:


          I would note that I am still looking foward if it happens to switching between all 4 through the pod as it will save dsp and I believe in the end be more flexible.

           

          well it would save DSP, so i guess on that note, it is a good idea.  here's hoping the long awaited MIDI guide is on its way soon

    • Rowbi Expert Line 6 User
      Rowbi
      7,745 posts since
      Nov 25, 2006
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 20, 2011 7:45 AM (in response to wolbai)
      Re: DT50 control

      wolbai wrote:

       

      Hi, JB1973.

       

      I choosed No Cab on all HD500-patches I tested.

       

       

       

      I am not sure if the DT50 uses cab simulations or not (it must have them as the DI form the DT50 uses a cab sim but not sure if it uses them for the live sound).  have you tried a comparison with the HD500 using the default cab and microphone that is selected when you select the amp model?

       

      I could be wrong on that though... just a thought about the whole situation.

      • JB1973 Just Startin'
        JB1973
        604 posts since
        Apr 19, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 20, 2011 8:12 AM (in response to Rowbi)
        Re: DT50 control

        Thanks for explaining your point abit more Rowbi. My frustration spawns from being point blank told by sales tech's that the hd500 could do just what I was expecting it to do, I also feel that the manual/website insinuated the podhd fullty controled the amp. Although I have noticed the manuals are evolving, changing wordig on some things and adding pages, charts etc. And that I have not been able to recreate the sounds of the amp itself using the hd and dt50 together. After all the edit sofware lets you control everything BUT what is needed to acomplish this. And as for the amp itself, as much as I like the sounds I do have to say I would not keep it given not being able to change from clean to crunch or whatever. Now being able to select 2 or 3 of those would be much better as you stated with another amp.

        Right now I will be going back to attempt getting similar sounds from the pod + dt50. Someone posted that L6 is working on this...I hope so

      • wolbai Just Startin'
        wolbai
        177 posts since
        Mar 30, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 20, 2011 9:13 AM (in response to Rowbi)
        Re: DT50 control

        Hi Rowbi,

         

        yes, the DT50/HD500-rig reacts on cab-sim. If cab-sim is off, the mic sim is automatically off too.

         

        Regards.

  • Lespaulidas Just Startin'
    Lespaulidas
    145 posts since
    Sep 5, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 20, 2011 11:29 AM (in response to JB1973)
    Re: DT50 control

    Agreed 100%.  This was my first thought when I bought and tried the DT50 with the HD500.  Pluggin straight into the DT50 has much more character then going through the HD500 Link.   I don't understand why there isnt a set of Amps called DT50 in the available models on the HD500, so that in effect choosing that model, would activate the feature you're talking about.  It makes so much sense!

     

    My two cents.

    • teleplayer_fr Just Startin'
      teleplayer_fr
      23 posts since
      Dec 27, 2010
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 20, 2011 11:44 AM (in response to Lespaulidas)
      Re: DT50 control

      I don't understand why there isnt a set of Amps called DT50 in the available models on the HD500, so that in effect choosing that model, would activate the feature you're talking about.  It makes so much sense!

      +1. Line 6 could even provide {DT50 + HD500} owners with a dedicated firmware. I talking about a firmware containing USABLE patches or at least patches acting as a good starting point for one to tweak his/her own sounds.

      • JB1973 Just Startin'
        JB1973
        604 posts since
        Apr 19, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 20, 2011 2:41 PM (in response to teleplayer_fr)
        Re: DT50 control

        I got sent home due to snow today my son just happened to need a nap and I got to work on this awhile

        Due to suggestions and just trial and error I think I got some damn close recreations of the DT50 tones

        in full power mode*, to do this I sometimes used cabs some not, doubled the amp pre's to get the fuller

        tone the dt50 gets and only used the chart tone as a guide.

         

        Now I did not level off the volumes for each of these because I wanted to be matching the master volum/volume

        on channel B to the be same as channel A. I will obviously level off the volume for myself.

        Some of the patches sounded different to me in vol. pulled out mode.

         

        I also ran into some crazy volume issues while working on the high gain patch. I started getting insane screaching

        feedback even with the volume down, another time I was playing and the master control did nothing to shut off the volume

        I assigned FS4 to turn off the preamps and swap to channel B, sometimes it would turn off only one preamp sometimes both

        I even had the red light not work for a while when pressing it. Just wacky crap. I don't know how much of this is amp or hd500

        or the edit program....the edit program is buggy and I have seen it do weird stuff before.

         

        Anyway I am going to post this on a couple threads I have started to share with folks.

         

        Even though I got some decent mimic tones I still want to be able to switch between the 4 amp tones on the amp, why? because if I could do that

        it would free up the dsp for effects on the pod for one, I could set channel A to basic tone and channel b could be a tone with less or more drive, reverb etc.

         

        Hope these work for you guys that were wanting it

         

        cheers

        J

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  • Rowbi Expert Line 6 User
    Rowbi
    7,745 posts since
    Nov 25, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2011 7:12 AM (in response to JB1973)
    Re: DT50 control

    hey all,

     

    check out my post at the end of this thread: http://line6.com/community/thread/52951 (well it's at the end for the moment).

     

    I've tried to explain as much as I know from what I've learnt here recently about how to achieve the same tone from both devices.

     

    Cheers

     

    Rowbi

    • JB1973 Just Startin'
      JB1973
      604 posts since
      Apr 19, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 21, 2011 7:43 AM (in response to Rowbi)
      Re: DT50 control

      Did you check out my settings Rowbi? They are pretty much dead on. I'll post them on custom tone.  But it would still be very benefitial to be able to set up amp change not using preamp from podhd to get the sound. You would have more flexibility with channels a and b and have all the dsp free for effects/vol/wah etc. The amp can also achieve higher volume on settings like chime, I maxed out the preamps to get the same tone as the amp 3/4 the way up.

       

      cheers

       

      JB

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