Currently Being ModeratedMar 16, 2011 3:22 PM (in response to pauldf)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
I am in a cover band and recently bought the Spider Valve MKII head and shortboard...with a couple hours to set it up how I liked it, and a two practices to make minor adjustments, I felt good enough to play a gig with it. The show was great the amp was great, I am very happy with my decision to buy this amp! It does take work on your part to set it how you like it, but being your familiar with Line 6, you already know that. Hope this helps.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 16, 2011 4:14 PM (in response to onebassgod)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
Thanks a million for getting back. It's good to hear from someone who actually has this amp and gigs with it. Just wondering how long have you got the amp? It's just I would like to know if it's solid over the long term. Thanks again for your post.
All the best.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 17, 2011 1:19 PM (in response to pauldf)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
Here's where you should have laughed at him histerically, whilst finding another rep.
"with so much "digital stuff" on board something is bound to go wrong"
Ive had a 100% digital Flextone III XL for 6 years, and Ive bounced it in and out of many a seedy joint, and even down the steps of stadiums for anthem gigs. 100% uptime. Tubes break, not transistors, and certainly not Line6's.
On buying any amp, I simply dont believe you can make any educated purchases without plugging a guitar (preferably one you own) in and goin for it!
I am too looking at DT50 or SV MKii for my next head.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 17, 2011 4:46 PM (in response to Spyfunker)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
Yeah I found another music shop and believe it or not I actually found a helpful sales guy who wasn't interested in pushing any amp on me. He was fairly positive about the Spider Valve, but if I'm honest he was also saying that I should look at the Marshall JVM 410 as well as the Blackstar HT100 Venue to compare them all. He told me to bring my own guitar with me back to the shop and he will set up any amp I want and I can try them for as long as I want, you can't really get much fairer then that.
To be honest, and all respect to Marshall and Blackstar but I really like the look of the Spider Valve and given the choice I really would love if this amp live up to my expectations. I just want to simplify the amount of gear I bring to gigs. So if I can get tones from the Spider Valve and the short board, I reckon that would be perfect.
I was just worried from what I read online about people saying that the Spider Valve can die mid set. Being realistic I suppose a few amps will slip through with a fault so my figuring is for every one person that has a fault there must be hundreds that have no problems at all. If I'm honest the way money is now, whatever amp I buy now will have to last me a few years so that is why I really wanted the opinions of guys like yourself that use the Line6 amps for gigs etc.
Thanks again for your post.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 18, 2011 12:29 PM (in response to pauldf)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
Here is some advice from someone who has been both pleased and disappointed with the SV MK2.
- The amp is as reliable as any other tube amp out there. Sometimes, bad stuff happens and stuff is going to break. All my line6 gear has been very reliable. I still have an original pod 1.0 device that I use for quick recordings. Still works awesome.
- Despite the denials from the foamers in these forums, the channel switching delay is REAL and has been exhibited on EVERY spider valve MKII unit I have tried. It is a minimal delay (approx 50ms), but the sound cuts out completely (no delay spillovers, etc). This is due to the design of the unit.... there is only one DSP processing the signal - and while the DSP is loading the new patch, it cannot process the signal - hence the silence.
Some people swear that they cannot hear it...... and I think they are deaf..... this was a HUGE problem for me - and eventually led to me selling my SVMKII, but may not be an issue for you.
- You need to be realistic about what you are buying.
These modeling amps are designed to sound like other popular amplifiers. But, they will never, ever, ever, ever sound exactly like the original. You can put on the 'mesa' model, dime the gain and scoop the mids, and it IS NOT going to sound like a dual rectifier. It will do a kick-butt high gain sound (more or less). The same holds true for the 'fender' patches - do you honestly expect the amp to sound like a 6V6 driven amp running full tilt through a quad of 10" speakers? It wont even come close to the warmth of the original.
So, when adjusting your patches, do it by ear and not by the modeled amp name ...... you will be much happier in the long run.
- LESS IS MORE
If there is one thing I have learned over the years, it is that bells and whistles eventually just get in the way. Digital or not.... the more knobs you have to turn, the less playing you are doing.
I guess if the SVMKII fits your bill, get it. It should be pretty reliable for the long-term. However, don't go into the deal thinking that it is capable of sounding like every other amp it claims to model. The SVII has 'voices', but isn't 30 amps in one box.... and you need to be realistic about that.
All this being said, I will never purchase another Line6 amp for the purposes of gigging. They make fantastic effects units and recording devices. But as a 'live amp for pros' - the SV MKII was a real letdown.
- Channel Switching Delay and lack of spillovers
- Software upgrades that include new features, at the expense of crappier amp models
- Lack of a real tube preamp - digital modeling has a place in history, but nothing beats the warmth and dynamics of a good tube preamp being overdriven. Digital overdrive sounds good at bedroom levels - not so much at stage volume.
- Lack of responsiveness from Line6 support regarding the issues I found.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 19, 2011 6:15 AM (in response to stevementzer)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
Thanks a million for your in depth and honest reply.
Ah yeah I know that no matter how good a modelling amp is, it will never get the sound of an original amp 100% spot on. But to be honest when you are doing a gig as a cover band at least 95% of the crowd there won't know what the difference between a Modelled Marshall and an original Marshall sound. They will just hear the song. You might get one or two guitar heads mumbling to each other how the mids were off etc. and that it didn't sound like a Marshall at all, but the majority won't care. Don't get me wrong I love the individual sound and character each individual amp maker has, I mean if that didn't exist every guitar tone would sound the same. What I was looking for was a tube amp ( depth and warmth ) that will get me close to the sound of the cover songs ( 70's blues to modern rock/metal ) without having to drag around a bag full of pedals etc. and even though the Spider Valve has all these modelled amps inside it, been realistic would you really need them all. I reckon just a close good Marshall, Mesa, and Fender sound would nearly get you out through a gig with rock cover songs. The main thing I'm looking for is that warmth and depth that only a valve amp will give. Also versatility I want to be able to rock out at these rock gigs but also fill in anytime my friend needs me for his wedding band ( a lot softer songs ). At the moment I play a Line6 XT Live going through an old Marshall Valvestate and no matter what I do the sound is just thin and weak. Whenever we share the bill with other bands at biker rallies etc. they get up with their valve amps and just destroy any sound that my amp could even dream of making. I figure it is my old Marshall letting me down, a Transistor based head going up against Valve heads, no chance. I have a bag full of pedals in the attic as well as other pedal boards, I wasted a lot of money buying pedal after pedal just to try get the sound I wanted when instead of buying pedals I should have started with the Valve amp and worked from there. Get a good solid sound first then add the effects.
A quick question about the channel switching thing. If you were using a short board would that same silence between switching channels exist if you were switching effects in the one bank? If I set one of the pedals to say chorus, if I pressed that mid song would there be a silence or since it is already part of that bank/patch would it do it seamlessly as it would if you had individual pedals on the ground in front of you?
Ah I know what you mean about the bells and whistles but unfortunately bands are releasing songs with different effects just trying to stand out from the crowd and you will need these effects if you want to cover those songs, so even if you don't use the effects that your amp has now, would it not be better to have them and not need them then to need them and not have them? Sorry I know that sounds like a stupid question but as it is now I drag around a pedal board with a few extra pedals, leads, power adapters etc. I would just love to simplify my set up without losing the effects needed etc.
The one thing that really made me take notice of your post was when you said that the "Digital overdrive sounds good at bedroom levels - not so much at stage volume." This would be a concern to me, I mean what would be the point in buying a valve amp for your bedroom when you need it for live shows? Do you mind me asking what amp do you use for your live shows these days and do you use the overdrive from that amp or have you pedals?
I take it from your post that you are a gigging guitarist and that you used the Spider Valve for shows etc., was there another guitarist in your band and what amp were they using and how did the Spider Valve stand up to it? I am the only guitarist in my band so I have to play all the guitar parts, rhythm, lead and sometimes turn keyboard parts into guitar parts so again I would need an amp that as well as giving me a good rhythm sound could fill out for the lead parts etc.
Sorry for all the questions but if I don't ask I will never know and it is actually great to be able to come to these forums and asks guys that use the equipment there honest opinions about stuff.
All the best.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 21, 2011 12:11 PM (in response to pauldf)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
..... "Ah yeah I know that no matter how good a modelling amp is, it will never get the sound of an original amp 100% spot on. But to be honest when you are doing a gig as a cover band at least 95% of the crowd there won't know what the difference between a Modelled Marshall and an original Marshall sound."
You will find that for the majority of cover songs, cover bands and crowds - they wont notice the difference between a marshall patch on a metallica song vs. a mesa patch on a van halen song.
.... "At the moment I play a Line6 XT Live going through an old Marshall Valvestate and no matter what I do the sound is just thin and weak. Whenever we share the bill with other bands at biker rallies etc. they get up with their valve amps and just destroy any sound that my amp could even dream of making."
And they will continue to do so..... you have to remember that an HD100 is **basically** the same concept as an XTLive running through a tube power amp. The tubes in the power section will HELP, but it isn't going to make the digital preamp less digital sounding. The valvestate power section you are currently running is pretty awful overall, but the tubes aren't going to make everything better by themselves.
....."I have a bag full of pedals in the attic as well as other pedal boards, I wasted a lot of money buying pedal after pedal just to try get the sound I wanted when instead of buying pedals I should have started with the Valve amp and worked from there. Get a good solid sound first then add the effects. "
That is a good approach. Get a good tube amp that sound great by itself and then throw effects in for color. Something to consider is that your tastes will change over time. I just changed from a crybaby wah to a morley bad horsie ..... I had the flexibility to do that because my amp and effects are seperate.
..... "A quick question about the channel switching thing. If you were using a short board would that same silence between switching channels exist if you were switching effects in the one bank? If I set one of the pedals to say chorus, if I pressed that mid song would there be a silence or since it is already part of that bank/patch would it do it seamlessly as it would if you had individual pedals on the ground in front of you?"
If you set up a patch and were just switching individual effects on/off within that patch via the floorboard, there is NO delay. It only occurs when switching physical patches. For instance, switching off the delay would not cause the silence... Keep in mind that the whole goal of this exercise (for me) was to eliminate the long chain of pedals that I was using.... so I just press 1 button and i get a whole new sound (think about playing enter sandman , as the sole guitarist, at the end of the solo, the transition from screaming wah delayed solo to chorused, delayed clean)...
So, at the end of the day, I still had to pedal dance on a single patch to avoid the delay.....
....."Ah I know what you mean about the bells and whistles but unfortunately bands are releasing songs with different effects just trying to stand out from the crowd and you will need these effects if you want to cover those songs, so even if you don't use the effects that your amp has now, would it not be better to have them and not need them then to need them and not have them? Sorry I know that sounds like a stupid question but as it is now I drag around a pedal board with a few extra pedals, leads, power adapters etc. I would just love to simplify my set up without losing the effects needed etc."
My cover band currently performs around 70 different songs - from ZZ Top to metallica, foo fighters, nickleback, los lonely boys, etc.
I maily use 3 different effects - chorus, delay and wah.
I never hear any complaints about how I didn't use a phaser during the intro to 'aint talkin bout love' :)
Stop trying to match the sound on the records - make the song your own - or go on youtube and see how the bands actually perform the songs live. You will be surprised. Less is more.
...... "The one thing that really made me take notice of your post was when you said that the "Digital overdrive sounds good at bedroom levels - not so much at stage volume." This would be a concern to me, I mean what would be the point in buying a valve amp for your bedroom when you need it for live shows? Do you mind me asking what amp do you use for your live shows these days and do you use the overdrive from that amp or have you pedals?"
I have two stage rigs.... A peavey 6505+ and a Jet City JCA100HDM. I can run them through a 4x12 or 2x12 cabinet. Larger (outdoor) gigs tend to get , the peavey and the 4x12. Smaller indoor bars get the jet city and the 2x12.
My pedalboard is really simple... Guitar -> wah -> overdrive-booster -> delay -> chorus -> amp
My amp provides 100% of the overdrive - and I use the boss OD-3 in my pedal chain for a little bit more boost (leads mainly).
...... "I take it from your post that you are a gigging guitarist and that you used the Spider Valve for shows etc., was there another guitarist in your band and what amp were they using and how did the Spider Valve stand up to it? I am the only guitarist in my band so I have to play all the guitar parts, rhythm, lead and sometimes turn keyboard parts into guitar parts so again I would need an amp that as well as giving me a good rhythm sound could fill out for the lead parts etc."
By itself (sole guitarist), the SV was OK, but exhibited the channel switching delay that drove me nuts. Nothing says 'amateur' like switching jumping patches at the end of a solo to be greeted by 60ms of dead air and no delay trails.
In my current band, with the 2nd guitarist present, the SV didn't cut through at all. The overdrives/distortions (post patch 1.50) were thin and lifeless. The clean sounds didn't have the headroom I expected, either.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 19, 2011 8:01 AM (in response to stevementzer)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
On the whole, your assessment and advice is pretty reasonable on this and I appreciate that you are probably writing it as you see it, however for those of us that either don't hear any patch switching latency, or aren't bothered by what latency there might be - and yes I am one of those people that is not bothered by it, the fact is that any latency that undeniably exists (it has to to some extent) is variable dependent on exactly what amp models and FX are being loaded. Pretty much anything above 15ms is going to be noticeable to most people if they're listening for it, however, those of us who don't hear it or more likely aren't bothered by it (me) are probably no more hard of hearing than those that insist they are bothered by the latency and it's a huge problem.
Everyone is different and as such everyone has different tolerance levels too. I don't really think it's appropriate for you to suggest that because some of us don't hear a noticeable gap when changing patches or are not bothered by it, we are deaf because we happen to have: a) a different experience to yours, and; b) possibly a different tolerance level to yours. I'm not suggesting that you are lying or exaggerating what you have found to be your personal experience, but neither am I or the others that don't hear a gap or aren't bothered by it. It doesn't make me or others deaf. Hearing ability does not come into it. It's a difference in first-hand experience, perception and opinion - and that's it.
All I'm pointing out here is that some users might be offended by your remark regarding their being deaf or not.
As always I'd suggest to anyone thinking of parting with their hard-earned cash for an amp or other piece of musical equipment that they should take the time to properly audition the equipment before spending their money.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 19, 2011 6:42 AM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
I was just wondering if I could ask you a quick question. In Steves post he mentioned that the overdrive was okay at bedroom levels but not live show levels. I am not making any comment on Steves post because that is his opinion and he is entitled to it, but I doubt there is no way that the music shop will let me try out the Spider Valve at live show levels. I can get a great overdriven sound out of my Line6 XT Live but once I plug it into my Marshall Valvestate and turn the volume up the sound becomes thin and weak. Do you reckon that it is the Marshalls fault or the does the overdrive sound get thin at high volumes? Again maybe I am doing something wrong. At low volumes ( headphones and Spider II 212 practice amp ) my pedal board gives a nice chunky sound but once I plug it into the Marshall and turn the volume ( only on the amp ) up the overdrive becomes thin. Thanks for any advice.
All the best.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 19, 2011 8:00 AM (in response to pauldf)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
No worries on Steve's post. Apart from the slightly offensive remark about deafness it was all fine and his opinion
OK - I have a MkI 112 Combo and a MkII 212 Combo and not the head in either variant, so to some extent we are talking about slightly different animals here.
When I first got my MkII 212 about this time last year, it came with firmware version 1.17 pre-loaded. At low levels in the house (and it's quite hard to achieve a low level with any of these amps LOL), the sound of the amp models was quite warm and pleasant. When the first FX Infusion update was released a few weeks later it gave us more FX and the ability to link to a computer for the purposes of editing, but the models themselves changed a little. The reason for the change in the amp models was that whilst at low volume they sounded fine, that quality of sound didn't translate as well as the designers felt it could when the amp was turned up to gig levels, and the changes were made to accommodate this.
I can certainly hear a difference in the tone between firmware version 1.17 amp models and those that are there in firmware version 2.00, and at low levels there doesn't seem to be as much bottom end, however at proper gig levels the bottom end does become more as you'd expect it to be.
The choice of speakers has a lot to do with how an amp sounds, and certainly with the combo versions of the Spider Valve MkI and MkII, this is very true. The combo amps come with Celestion Vintage 30 speakers as stock and there are a variety of opinions on these. Any new speaker needs to be given about 30 hours of high volume playing to break it in in my opinion and experience. Some users, particularly with the MkI combo amps felt that the V30 was a very shrill and piercing sounding speaker and others were not as bothered by this - and indeed there may well be a small variation between how different speakers of the same type sound when they are new, plus the biasing of some amps having travelled across the globe from the factory in China may have been slightly different by the time the amps reached the end user and therefore some amps may have sounded warmer or cooler by the time they reached their destination (local power supply conditions can affect this too). I always found that my SV MkI 112 with its V30 when paired with a 1x12 Marshall cab fitted with a Celestion G12T75 sounded really really good - and very loud - so loud that it easily held its own with another guest guitarist using my Marshall TSL100 and 4x12 and the other regular guitarist also using a Marshall TSL100 and 4x12.
The 4x12 speaker cab that's designed to partner the Spider Valve MkII HD100 is fitted with four Celestion V30 speakers. The same speakers as fitted to the combo amps. But in the case of the 4x12 cabinet, it's a sealed cabinet whereas the combo cabinets are two thirds (approx) closed.
So, there's four things in the main that will affect how your amp sounds: 1 - firmware revision; 2 - tube bias; 3 - choice of speaker; 4 - design of the cabinet containing the speaker(s) (ie closed or open. In most valve amps there are some differences that might be attributable to the make and model of valves used.
In the main this will be related to the pre-amp valves - ie the ones that do the main tone shaping. The Spider Valve series amps are hybrid amps and don't use pre-amp tubes in the normal sense (all the tone shaping and traditional pre-amp duties are taken care of by the Digital Signal Processing (DSP) and solid state pre-amp section). The power amp in a Spider Valve does not really affect too much as it is designed to simply amplify whatever comes out of the solid state front end as cleanly as possible, but it does offer seemingly more volume per Watt than a solid state power amp with the same overall power rating would. From another post by Spaceatl yesterday about the two 12AX7 valves: V1 is a cascaded buffer that ramps up the voltage to V2 that is the inverter that feeds the power tubes...In this capacity, the 12AX7s are NOT preamp tubes...
I always found my XT Live OK when run into one of my Marshall amps' power amp sections via the FX Return socket. I never liked the sound of my X3 Live when used this way. I love the sound of my POD HD500 when played though the power amp of any of my amps.
When using any POD, it is pretty important to get the correct output mode set so that it's appropriate for whatever it's being plugged into. Plugging into the front guitar input is a totally different ball game from being plugged into the power amp section where a modeller like one of the PODs is concerned.
The Spider II you refer to is a modelling amp in its own right and when you take the output from your XT Live into the front of your Spider II you will be overlaying the XT Live amp models over the top of the Spider II's amp models and what you're hearing therefore won't be what was really intended no matter how good it sounds. The Spider II is not really capable of a flat response set-up and is probably not the best amp to use with any POD. If you are going to use your POD with your Spider II, you would probably be better feeding the output of the POD into the MP3 input on the Spider as that will give you a flatter response and will give you sound from the XT Live that is closer to what was intended.
I'm not familiar with the specific Marshall ValveState model that you have, but I assume it doesn't have an FX Return or Power Amp In socket you could use. If this is the case, the Marshall's pre-amp will almost certainly affect how the output of the XT Live sounds more than .
In addition, there is the phenomenon known as the Fletcher-Munson Effect. Basically what this explains is the differences in perceived tonality at different loudness levels. Humans do not perceive low and high freequencies so well at low volume levels and so when creating tones quietly at home for use at gig levels, there will be a natural tendency to over compensate by adding or removing more low and high frequency boost to any patches you might design. It is vital therefore to create patches that you intend to use for live work at actual gig volume levels to minimise perceptions due to the Fletcher Munson Effect.
The same Fletcher Munson Effect will play its part with any amplification system, whether that be with your Marshall ValveState or a Spider Valve MkII.
It's a pity you don't think your local music store would let you audition a Spider Valve MkII at a decent volume for a couple of hours. You should enquire about this. And don't be too shy about it. You are seriously considering a SV for purchase, so the store should have some provision for you to take a test drive so to speak. Some stores have a sound-proofed booth for this purpose. Some stores have a return policy which would effectively let you try an amp out for thirty days with the option of returning it if you don't like it.
Properly set up at gig volume levels my Spider Valve MkII 212 combo doesn't sound at all thin, but when set up at low volume 'bedroom' levels and then taken to rehearsal it is more than likely you'd be surprised by how it sounds - and that surprise is not always a pleasant thing. You'd really need to try an SV to make your own mind up
A lot of this stuff is subjective anyway, and a lot of this post is my opinion based on my experience. Very often there is no right or wrong way to work - trust your ears
Currently Being ModeratedMar 19, 2011 10:26 AM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
That was an answer and a half Thanks a million for your post. I know at the end of the day it will come down to me and how it sounds when I go and test it, but to have all the information that you guys are giving me before I go in really helps. From what I've learned is that everything that other guitarist are telling me, that the Spider Valve won't hold up for an entire show and to make sure I bring a spare amp is a joke. I honestly couldn't believe that this amp would just up and die for no reason, I mean Line6 wouldn't have the foothold they have in the market place if they were making crap gear.
I am not to concerned about the purest angle ( it doesn't sound exactly like a Marshall or Mesa ) if it gets close thats good enough for me. Like I said in an earlier post the majority of people that are out looking at a cover band are not making notes: like "well although he played Enter Sandman note perfect I found his amp settings were slightly off."...not saying I can play Enter Sandman note perfect, but sometimes we have our good days At the end of the day, I'm not to concerned about the branding of an amp. I just want something that I can rely on and trust and so far it's looking like the Spider Valve falls into that bracket. The Spider Valve I was looking at getting comes with it's own Line6 4X12 ( Celestion Vintage 30 speakers ) cab, the guy in the shop told me that this was the best pairing for it.
Ah yeah I figured that the Spider II and the XT Live weren't doing each other any favours, and try as I might I couldn't get the flat tone from the Spider II and now I know why, it can't be done, thanks for clearing that up for me.
My Marshall that I'm using now is old but it does have an FX Loop on the back of it, which if I'm honest I have never used. I was thinking for a while to run my XT Live through it but anywhere I read people were saying that you shouldn't run a distortion or overdrive sound through an FX Loop, you should only run Delays, Chorus etc. so that's why I never used it, because I use everything on the XT Live, Overdrives, Delays, Phasers etc.
I went looking and the Marshall has an ECC 83 valve driven pre- amp built into it. Do you think I should try my XT Live through the FX Loop or because I use the Overdrive etc. this would be a bad idea? Sorry I know I'm gone off topic a bit but we have a gig next weekend and I won't have the Spider Valve till the middle of the following week if I went for it.
I think my Marshall has had a good run but it's time for valves. So hopefully the Spider Valve will work out.
Thanks a million again for your post.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 19, 2011 11:41 AM (in response to pauldf)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
Normally most people put things like wah, overdrive and distortion between the guitar and the guitar amp's front input, and then they put the 'clean FX like delay, modulation, reverb etc in the amp's FX loop.
That's sort of an accepted 'norm', but lots of guitarists buck the trend for nomality and maybe will place an effect that you wouldn't normally expect to find in the loop, in the loop. there's no hard and fast rules. If you can get the sound you want by putting something where you wouldn't normally find it, then that's absolutely fine.
However, the XT Live is a modeller and it includes amp models, so yes it can totally replace your Marshall amp's pre-amp, so if I were you and for no other reason than you can do what you like, I would set the XT Live's output mode to suit whatever you're connecting to (Combo Pwr Amp for a combo, Stack Pwr Amp for a head and 4x12, plug a cable into the Left/Mono output jack socket on the XT Live and plug the other end into your Marshall's FX return socket (turn any FX balance control knob up to 100% on the Marshall to ensure it's going to receive 100% of your signal). Flick the AMP/LINE switch on the rear of the XT Live to LINE and then adjust the output level using the rotary control on the rear of the XT Live. Your amp's gain and tone controls probably won't work now (and that's normal and if you're using your XT Live as the front end to your Marshall's power amp), but its Master Voluime control should work. Plug your guitar cable into the POD XT Live and flick the PAD/NORM switch on the rear of the POD to NORM
Yep try this method into your Marshall's FX Loop Return or Power Amp In. See how it sounds. You can do the same with a Spider Valve if you wish.
Just as a FYI: With any amp that has a serial FX loop and a modeller like the X3 Live or the HD500, you can connect both amp and modeller together in such a way (particularly the HD500) using 4 cables (the 4 Cable method or 4CM) so that you can use your amp's own pre-amp with some FX from the HD500 placed before the amp's front input and others like reverb, delay or modulation in the amp's FX loop, or you can simply use the POD direct to the amp's power amp. Check out 4CM connectivity - there's a video tutorial on the POD HD500 forum in the Documents section. However, your XT Live isn't capable of 4CM, so I'm probably just feeding you with stuff in this paragraph you don't need to know right now LOL.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 19, 2011 12:14 PM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
Legend doesn't even go far enough to describe you Thanks a million for your advice. I will try what you said in your post with the XT Live, I know I will probably get lynched here in the forums for saying this, because I don't use it, but I have an X3 Live just sitting in a press in one of the rooms. A friend didn't want it so I got it off him, he had it for 5 days and couldn't get his head around it. I just liked the XT Live that I never bothered to mess with the X3, I might try that 4 cable thing you were saying. Although if all goes good with the Spider Valve test I might just get a short board and use the effects in the Spider Valve instead. If you don't mind I have one more question for you. I know I am going off topic a bit but I was wondering, I could probably get the money together for the Spider Valve head and cab by next week or do you think it would be better to hold off and save for a bit longer and get a DT50 head and cab and use that with the Live XT or the X3 Live for now and maybe down the road get the HD500?
Again thanks for all your help
Currently Being ModeratedMar 19, 2011 2:38 PM (in response to pauldf)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
In my opinion FWIW, the POD HD500 and the DT50 212 together are going to give you a good selection of realistic sounding amp models. The Marshall JCM800 model is particularly good and pretty much spot on for instance in my opinion when I use the Brit J-800 PRE model, cab emulation off into the DT50 via L6-Link allowing the POD to control the DT50's NFL Topology and Class operation settings.
OK - getting realistic about it, in your shoes, I'd try what you've already got, wired in to your Marshall (XT Live) the way I explained in my last post. See how you like it.
Then, I'd try the X3 Live substituted for the XT Live and see what you can make it do.
So far, you haven't spent anything
I think I'd recommend that you try out one of the POD HD units with your amp. The HD400 would probably be easier to move to from the XT Live/X3 Live in terms of understanding it, but I have to say the HD500 offers the most flexibility. You need to try a POD HD and make your own mind up. The POD HD series do have some areas currently that some users find problematic. I'm sure if you look in the POD HD forum, you will be able to see some of the issues that have been reported.
With a POD HD you aren't tied to using it with a DT50, although in my opinion an HD500 and DT50 offers the best in terms of sound, feel and control. However, you can use other amps and just let the POD HD drive them. you have a lot of choice.
If you are still considering a valve based amp and cab or a valve based combo, depending, after having tried out a POD HD, on whether you feel you are going to need to use the amp's own DSP features or not, you might want to consider a Spider Valve MkI or a Spider Valve MkII to use with a POD HD. If you're just going to use the power amp section and let a POD HDx00 drive it, then you might pick up a bargain Spider Valve MkI - the MkI and MkII power amp sections are pretty much the same after all, and you do have the option of using the modelling features of a Spider Valve too if you want to.
I sometimes use a Marshall JVM205H 50w head and 4x12 and let the HD500 drive it - it sounds great. I sometimes use one or both my Spider Valve combos and let the HD500 drive it/them - it sounds great too. Then I do have the luxury of the DT50 too, but if I were looking for a cheaper option to keep me going whilst possibly saving for something else like a DT50, I'd be pretty happy running the HD500 into a MkI Spider Valve or MkII Spider Valve in the short term.
You have lots of options open to you, but if I were in your shoes my road-map would certainly include a POD HD500 and probably a DT50 if I had the funds available. I am very pleased with both the HD500 and the DT50 I have to say, but really you do need to try anything you're considering before buying and you need to make sure it will address your needs. If I were in your shoes and had a degree of certaintly that the DT50 is what I'd want ultimately, I think I'd seriously consider a secondhand Spider Valve MkI to provide amplification for a POD HD500 in the short term, but as I say, There are lots of options open to you. I'd start by investigating what you already have at your disposal and think it through properly without letting G.A.S. interfere too much and work out exactly what it is you want to achieve.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 20, 2011 4:25 PM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
Ha ha I think I'm a recovering G.A.S addict, I'm gonna give the gear I have a go with the way you told me to set it up and see what that sounds like, but I think I might test drive a HD500 during the week just to see what it's like as well . That way I'm gonna keep all my options open. But surely with what gear I have now I should be able to get the sound I'm looking for...well I know the Line6 gear can deliver, the Marshall is the weakest link so If I could just basically only use that for volume an take everything else from the pedal boards maybe that will set me on my way. Thanks again for all your help and advice. I'll keep you posted on how I get on
All the best again.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 21, 2011 12:29 PM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
..... "Pretty much anything above 15ms is going to be noticeable to most people if they're listening for it, however, those of us who don't hear it or more likely aren't bothered by it (me) are probably no more hard of hearing than those that insist they are bothered by the latency and it's a huge problem."
..... "Everyone is different and as such everyone has different tolerance levels too. I don't really think it's appropriate for you to suggest that because some of us don't hear a noticeable gap when changing patches or are not bothered by it, we are deaf because we happen to have: a) a different experience to yours, and; b) possibly a different tolerance level to yours. "
I have never met a single guitarist who thinks that 60ms of dead silence when switching patches on a piece of gear made in 2010 is acceptable. Effects spillover has been a basic feature of EVERY pro-level effects processor made in the last 20 years. It would have been fixed if Line6 included a 2nd DSP in the signal chain, which again, is a common feature on EVERY pro-level effects processor made today.
As for the 'deaf' statement, perhaps I struck a nerve with you - this isn't about hearing ability at all. It is about the ability for the user of the amp to hear an obvious deficiency in the amp design.
If you are the type of guitarist that doesn't switch patches, then sure, perhaps the issue wouldn't affect you at all.
However, you should understand that Line6 marketed the product as a 'gigging' amp..... all the benefits of digital modeling, with a tube amp and built-in effects.
..... "All I'm pointing out here is that some users might be offended by your remark regarding their being deaf or not."
Im not a huge fan of political correctness. As far as I am concerned - if someone cannot hear 60ms of dead silence when switching patches (and there have been many on the forums stating as such), then perhaps my opinion of their aural capacity is diminished somewhat.
..... "As always I'd suggest to anyone thinking of parting with their hard-earned cash for an amp or other piece of musical equipment that they should take the time to properly audition the equipment before spending their money."
Agreed. I would also suggest that Line6 employees spend some time using the products they produce in the capacities they intend before selling them.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 21, 2011 4:30 PM (in response to stevementzer)Re: Advice: Spider Valve MKII HD100
Yes I agree that 60ms is noticeable. However, I don't think that 60ms is necessarily a constant here. Sometimes, it might be more or sometimes it might be less. As the performer you'll hear it and you'll feel it, but in reality 60ms is a remarkably short amount of time - particularly in most venues where the natural reverb in the room will cover this kind of gap as far as the listener is concerned. I'm not excusing a 60ms gap, or saying it isn't a problem for you - it obviously is. As the guitar player you, me or whoever is going to be much more sensitive to stuff like this or the odd fleeting bum note that we play than anyone listening.
There is this thing too where you (or me) might notice a characteristic of a piece of equipment which seems to stick out like a sore thumb to you and you simply cannot un-notice it. You, me or whoever - we are well capable of focusing on something relatively minor to the point where it becomes a HUGE issue and is so off-putting that we can't actually use the equipment without feeling intensely uncomfortable or worried that the characteristic is going to make us look or sound bad, and that feeling is self perpetuating, and the issue grows even larger in our minds. I am one of the world's worst. In 1993 I bought a brand new and in perfect condition Patrick Eggle Berlin Pro guitar in Antique Gold translucent finish - a real sweet guitar. Instantly comfortable and easy to play. It always attracted attention from my mates who wanted to 'have a go'. I'm not sure what happened, but the tiniest of tiny nicks appeared in the middle of the back of the neck and I couldn't remember doing it, and I'm pretty sure that no-one had done anything deliberately or even accidentally. However I could feel this nick every time I played the guitar - it was about three weeks old, that's all. It became a massive issue to me and I really couldn't stand to play the guitar. I tried to fix it using the Super Glue trick. I got a slight 'nib' which needed flatting down, so I got some 1200 grade wet and dry paper which I further blunted by rubbing two sheets together. I took the utmost care to be gentle and to flat this nib down, but unfortunately the lacquer was very soft at the side of the Super Glue (probably the cause of the initial problem) and I just started to cut through to wood. Aaarggh. I stopped right there. I phoned Patrick Eggle Guitars the next day and explained what had happened, what I'd done to try and remedy the situation and what had gone wrong and that I really couldn't stand to play this beautiful guitar with what in reality was a very very minor problem. I was really enquiring as to the type of lacquer they'd used so I could fix the issue myself. I didn't over-play or exaggerate the damage. I explained that it was a very small area indeed, but that i could feel it. The guy on the phone was great and he just said 'We can't have that. Send it to us and we'll sort it'. They did a great job - FOC. I still have that guitar, and it's still stunning it is still pretty 'ding' free. I know I was over-reacting about the little nick in the neck lacquer. I know that any guitar is going to get a ding now and again - most of my guitars (and I have quite a few) are somewhat battle scarred - and some even have little nicks in the neck, but that particular guitar with that little nick in the neck was unplayable for me. It was in my head for sure.
My point? Well, what sometimes seems to be a massive problem to us, would not be of any real consequence to someone else. 60ms is 60ms. 60ms is a very short amount of time - yes it's audible if you leave a note ringing whilst you switch, but it is a very short amount of time nevertheless. I'm certain that this kind of gap would be a massive issue for me in a recording situation, but in a live situation, almost certainly not so much.
I really don't notice switching latency such as you are describing however to the same degree you do, which leads me to believe that there may be some differences between the amps we have other than just the difference between them (mine) being a 212 combo and yours being an HD100 or perhaps it has something to do with the reported channel volume 'pop' issue that some get and others (me for instance) don't. My presets are all pretty much saved with the channel volume at 50% or more. Differences in playing style might account for some differences in perception. I may instinctively mute ringing strings when I switch patches - that is a very real possibility, as I would consider doing so to be the correct thing to do.....but not everyone would consider this necessarily correct...It's not like I have not deliberately set out to try and hear the issue either
You're not the only one who hears or notices a gap when switching, but then I'm not the only one who doesn't have this problem either. Who is right and who is wrong? Neither I guess. There has to be some other explanation - and deafness or an inability to recognise the gap doesn't cut it I'm afraid. I'm willing to accept any time that I might be wrong and if in this case I could notice the kind of gaps you're talking about and if those gaps actually caused me a problem, I'd be pretty upset given that I spent £630 on something that pauses when I change patches, but seriously that doesn't happen for me. It doesn't happen for fairly significant numbers of other SV MkII users based on reports in this forum either, so we can't all be mistaken, just the same as fairly significant numbers who reckon there is an issue can't all be mistaken either.
I do change patches mid-song - if the song requires it. Seriously - no issues. For me the SV is a gigging amp - it's fine as just that. I bought it as a gigging amp. It's not my only amp
Personally, I wasn't at all offended by your remark about deafness, and I too think politcal correctness can go too far sometimes, but I think here in these forums we all need to keep things on an even keel - even when there are healthy disagreements and differences in opinion. I just felt that particular remark went a little bit too far and was unnecessary - that's all. I thought the rest of your post was very informative and helpful - after all that's what these forums are mainly about
I'm not a Line 6 employee - just a user like you. I wasn't involved in beta testing the MkII SV. I think you'll find that a lot of the Line 6 staff you'll see participating here and quite a large proportion of those who work behind the scenes are musicians, and that being the case many of them will be involved in pre-release testing programmes and will have used the equipment extensively before we got any indication that there was a new Spider Valve available.
Incidentally, if you were to re-flash the firmware back to version 1.17, would the switching latency issue still give you the same sort of problem? Would the gap be the same, shorter or longer than with f/w version 2.00?