May 21, 2012 4:08 AM
POD HD v2.0 firmware updates for POD HD300 and POD HD400 are coming soon
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I think that the choice of the word soon it's been quite optimistic......
Something for us to look forward too!
I personally feel they can take their time, for there must be a reason for it right? They wouldn't hold onto a firmware update for no reason.
Let's let Line 6 release it right (and get it right), so we can all enjoy it.
lets consider reasons:)
1. there is one guy -update developer -developing promised update- and only
2. there is one guy-developing promised update- and not only
3, there is one guy-developing promised update- and not only, also some extra features
4. there are guys - but they dont give the sh.t. they are watching our torture ![]()
5. there are guys -torturing the one guy who is developing update (with his ending variations )
6. there are guys- but they are tortured by the one guy who is developing update.
7. there is one guy- who read this, and decide to torture someone ![]()
It's probably the reason number 4 ;-)
I am really ready to sell my 300 and buy a cheaper piece gear to use as a practice rig over this.
I haven't posted in this thread. You can check ![]()
iasomie_ro wrote:
I haven't posted in this thread. You can check
Paradox! The entire fabric of the Internet will now unravel and life as we know it will cease to exist. ![]()
Sincerely,
Just another clique-y know-it-all ![]()
(psst...check my point total. It was really, really low when I got asked to be an expert. Still is, somewhere around 360. Far cry from "thousands of points". Something about quality of posts and content of character...)
You're ironically telling me that it doesn't really matter if I posted or not in this thread?
But that's what I was saying too: I'm (me and my POD HD 400) such an insignificant quantity that I don't really matter ![]()
If I were Line 6 I'd put the "EXPERT USER" to be on a short PR course, and one of the things I'd tell them (I don't know what other things yet
) would be : Never defend Line 6 in public on subjective things like how "soon" an update will be released. Let people vent! And never tell them "You should be grateful" ![]()
iasomie_ro wrote:
You're ironically telling me that it doesn't really matter if I posted or not in this thread?
![]()
No, no...not at all! I was pointing out the paradox of you posting to say you didn't post in this thread.
Sorry, was trying to be humorous. Alas, the Internet and it's lack of ability to convey intent.
If I were Line 6 I'd put the "EXPERT USER" to be on a short PR course, and one of the things I'd tell them (I don't know what other things yet
) would be : Never defend Line 6 in public on subjective things like how "soon" an update will be released. Let people vent! And never tell them "You should be grateful"
One of the cool things about the expert group is that, aside from a couple of perks, we're normal users like you. Each of us with our own opinions, personalities, areas of expertise, etc. Some of us are less critical of the company. Some of us are more critical. Line6 doesn't tell any of us what to say, and I like that freedom. Indeed, I was selected DESPITE my public criticism of them. You're absolutely right, venting is not only allowed, but encouraged. Vent away. It's the only way Line6 will hear what you think, and they DO read what's posted here.
As far as defending timelines, I think some of that was expectation setting. We have very little more information on timelines than you do, but some of us do have insight into the people and processes behind the curtain. But mostly, over time we've learned to just roll with what comes. The updates will come, and they'll come at their own pace due to circumstances beyond our control.
Hello ALL, I felt a disturbance in the space/time continuum, thought I would check it out. Sorry that the 300/400 update has not been released. I just wanted to say that in all fairness Line 6 is in a no win situation. No matter what they do someone is not going to be happy. I think the 300/400 programming is more restrictive and is less scaleable for additional features compared to the 500/Bean/Pro. In short, they have the write some pretty mean code for the 300/400. I hope they get it out soon. I had a 400 and sold it (last week) to buy a 500. I wish I would have done it sooner. The 500 rocks! I am getting sounds that I never thought I could get. I also noticed that the 500 has a lot more going on under the hood, compared to the 300/400. So my message to both sides is: Consumers: Give Line 6 some slack, there's probably a group of programmers sweating it out trying to get the new code to work. Line 6: Over promising and under delivering is not wise.
Lets all try to remember why we are here. We love music and Line 6.
-dan
I sold my HD300. It was too difficult to use, and didnt sound that great; my big muff pie sounds orders of magnitude better and is orders of magnitude easier to tweak. If the pod had sounded amazing, I would have kept it. But it didnt, and was crippled by unnecessary restrictions in the way it could be used. Waiting for updates, which admitedly did improve its sound quality dramatically each time, is just too frustrating.
I think line 6 are trying to produce some great products with the HD. The complexity of the HD series means the updates are a necessary evil for them to mature. Unfortunately the lower models are relatively ignored. And having produced this potentially great product, they have crippled the lower models unnecessarily; even very old multi-fx have much greater flexibility than the HD300, and there is no reason l6 placed such severe restrictions on function. Its a shame.
I now have a zoom g5. It sounds good, its mega simple to tweak, and its versatile. If you are struggling with the HD300 because of limitations and sound quality, the zoom may be for you.
ChrisRT wrote:
I sold my HD300. It was too difficult to use,
wow, never heard that one before. good luck with whatever you've moved on to.
By which I mean: sounded like a girl without a serious amount of tweaking, which took ages because of the limited controls and multiple level menu systems.
my personal experience has been very different...
i got the hd300 coming straight from a pod x3 live, it was immediately an improvement.
i've since got the hd bean, and hd500, and the 300 by far is the simplest.
it has its limits... as everything does...
but the dual output mode and studio live switch for example can be seen as a clear benefit also...
not much of it matters if you simply don't like the sound.
i've used my 300 through a PA system and through a DT50 with incredible results.
not beating up on you as it's clearly a subjective topic...
just wanted to relay a different experience... good luck with whatever it is that works for you.
I largely agree with you. This device is very complex by design. And with that complexity comes some difficulty with using it; i dont think anyone could argue otherwise. It can sound OK, but not nearly as good as stomp boxes. I guess it would be foolish to expect so much from an all in one cheap unit; some of the limitations are built right into the price range.
However, the updates are essential, precisely because of its complexity. The lower units are just being left behind. Couple that with the unnecessary limitations imposed on the unit by l6 themselves. Its just unfortunate. I would rather have been happy with it and kept it, but its just too much to deliver a highly complex device, seriously limit it unnecessarily, then not support it along with the other products in the range.
I'm not quite getting it what you're saying. On the one hand you're saying the HD300 is too complicated, on the other you think it should have more features, which would make it even more complex. Line 6 already make such a device, it's called the HD500.
Well, multi fx are harder to use than stomp boxes, and they dont sound as good.
Multi fx offer more flexibility than stomp boxes, with lots of features to make up for their limitations.
The HD300 hasnt managed to obtain the sound quality of stomp boxes, and at the same time, much of the flexibility available in older multi fx units has been removed.
What you have left is a device thats not simple to use, doesnt sound brilliant, and cant do many of the things that made these limitations semi acceptable in other fx units.
These issues may partly be fixed with some updates, but we know the story there.
Well I can't agree with you on the sound - I have to say I don't like Zoom's stuff at all. Just goes to show that we're all individuals with our own preferences and subjective idea of what is good tone.
Soon is a Relative Term... ![]()
For line6 software developers for sure........
please, give us this fu.in update. 55 days passed (+3month)
Yep, I think "soon" has officially come and gone.
3 months is definitely not soon ![]()
Line6 is for younger people than me, I don't have enough life left to deal with their updates schedule...... ;-)
I suggest that line6 transfers Sean Halley from marketing to programming division.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwhGVYqKGo&list=UU3mJu814VC6W93BmiXFELDw&index=31&feature=plpp_video
Updates will be coming out soon as soon as you can make a patch on hd300 ![]()
up
I just checked. Do you mean it's up or not? I didn't see anything newer than the latest Line 6 Monkey update.
Nope ... arresta is on the rampage and 'bumping' every HD3/400 thread cause that will make the firmware appear faster ....
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Will I buy again line 6 stuff in the future? NOPE!
Same here!
no offense guys... but if the HD300/400 isn't what you wanted out of the box... you probably shouldn't have bought it in the first place....
never ever buy something that you hope will turn into something different or something more... unless it's like seeds or plants ![]()
the update is coming and that should make you MORE happy.... as in....you bought it and kept it... because it made you happy at some point.
i have the 300.. and i'm very excited about the upcoming update myself... it will happen soon.
I can't speak for Voodoohill and fentemple but I can understand their frustration. For me it is not that I am unhappy with the current state of my HD300 it is that I am unhappy with my experience as a Line6 user/customer.
Back when the 2.0 announcement was made (in January?), it was promoted as an update for POD HD users. But when 2.0 was actually released guess what? Surprise! No update for you HD300/400 owners now but yours is "coming soon". Then we entered what is now nearly three months of dead silence from Line6 regarding the update.
The 2.x update for HD300/400 may very well be coming very soon and will hopefully be all we expect and more. It is just that the process of getting there has left some (or many) of us with a less than favorable customer experience. For that alone I could see some people walking away from future Line6 purchases.
But why are you unhappy? It's a free update...
I understand the basic impulse, but at the root of it, it's still a something that Line 6 is doing as a completely value added thing. I can understand the frustration more if someone saw the press release for the update and the pushed them over the edge to buy the unit, but I still have a hard time understanding it for a user who had the unit prior to that.
it's the reason why I bought the pod hd400, after the upgrade announcement.
to my eyes line6 is not a reliable company any more, I'll never trust them again in the future.
Well, it's not as if they have said they aren't coming out with the update altogether. It will be here, and it actually won't be very long probably. But, it's your prerogative to be upset with them if you want.
This entry is not intended to offend anyone. This just represents my personal view on the current situation.
It's not the point that we are angry, because we did not get free stuff. The point is how Line6 runs their business and how they treat customers. The current situation is bad in my opinion, because it does not serve anyone. Neither Line6 nor their customers/us. Here is my view of the things, as a guy that is developing commercial software for almost two decades. Sorry if this sounds like technobabble to you.
The current information, that is communicated by Line6 officials,after several months have passed after the winter NAMM press release, basicly consists of two statements:
1. The firmware 2.0 release for POD 300/400 will be released sometimes, but no release date is given.
2. The new features are not specified/disclosed.
What does this tell about Line6?
Assumption 1: Line6 follows a industry standard process for quality sofware engineering like defined in CMMI-DEV or similar. They reach at least maturity level 2. So they have done extensive requirement management. They also have planned for the entire life cycle of the product from the beginning. They have taken this into account when the initial hardware design was made. They internally know exactly what the 2.0 release will contain, they have set up milestones for implementation and product validation. The release date is fixed.
Conlusion: Line6 could answer all questions from various posts on the forum, but they just do not want to, because they don't care.
Assumption 2: Line6 has some genius DSP engineer(s) that decided what the hardware should be like and implemented the the initial firmware (aka "Cowboy Coding) and now try to add some new features, depending on what the old hardware can support, but never was intended to do.
Conclusion: Line6 cannot give a firm release date, because they simply don't know, when the new firmware will be done. The final feature set will be determined, based on what the developers can squeeze in, during the development process. After the release bugs will get fixed, as bug reports come in from the customer base.
As a customer I ask myself, why would I wan't to buy products from company that either does not care about their customers or lacks the ability to deliver a maintained high quality product across the entire life span?
I won't/can't go into details, but I think both your assumptions are incorrect. The thing you're leaving out is that Line 6 actually does try to incorporate user suggestions into existing product lines, so it's not really correct to assume that everything is set in stone.
Following CMMI-DEV does not mean that all fetures are "set in stone". Requirement management usually is a very dynamic process during the entire product life cycle. CMMI dates back until 1991. It is now a widely accepted, that the basic concepts of it are required to deliver quality software. There are some areas of software development as specified in ISO 26262, where following this rules is not an option, but a legal requirement. Surely this does not aply to a product like the POD, since no lifes depend on the proper function of the device, but quality management is a vital point in a product liability lawsuit. Remeber that "The POD is squealing and I am beeding from my ears" discussion. ;-)
voodoohill wrote:
it's the reason why I bought the pod hd400, after the upgrade announcement.
to my eyes line6 is not a reliable company any more, I'll never trust them again in the future.
I felt similar to what you're feeling right now when I had the HD300. My conclusion was just basically to lower my expectation since I didn't buy the flagship model and finally decided that the price of the upgrade to the HD500 was really worth it knowing that priority goes to the HD500 in everything. I personally think the HD is one product and they all should be updated at the same time even if the update comes late, unless LINE 6 really wants you to buy the 500 and they use the update to get people to ditch their 300 and 400 to buy the 500. Who knows what their marketing guys are thinking. I don't like it one bit and the time I sold my HD300, I almost bought something other than the HD500 al together and I'm sure some will do that understandably. I have to say though, that I really love the HD500 and didn't find anything that comes close considering the price and Tone quality.
what feature of the update announcement are you most interested in? its just a bass amp, a pre-amp, and a new guitar amp
some of the announced updates dont really apply anyway (all the variax stuff for instance)
the cab DEPS were also not included in the announcement... i think that was the best update...
but being that it wasn't announced... the expectation would be the problem there....
although i'm not saying it's not coming either... i simply don't know.
Quite frankly the DEP cab editing is the most important. That should make the unit far more usable, as right now the HD300 and 400 produce far more bass, which cannot be effectivly dialed out internally in the unit (IMO - speaking as both an audio engineer and a guitarist of 18+ years). If they have taken this amount of time and are unable to provide this addition, I think Line6 will do a serious disservice to the customer base. Essentially the EQ control this provides in the low end should have come with the unit right out of the gate.
The Bass Amp being 2nd, as it is new/unique and expands the units functionality beyond electric guitar.
Plexi being 3rd as it is a desirable amp and the feedback from 500/Pro users suggests it is a nice addition.
The Pre-Amp is more or less just a little bonus. If they are unable to implement this, I won't care.
(if they wanted to throw in tap divisions such as dotted 8ths, such as the 500 has, that would be nice too)
The DEP cab editing is the most important feature.
Not sure I agree...No Cab option is actually a bit more important to me than cab DEPs in the HD400. just in terms of my own usage...I use an HD desktop for direct stuff...
OK, so you are suggesting you need no-cab for LIVE use.
Is the "LIVE" output mode not good enough? Or how about running the HD in effects only mode running into your amp?
What exaclty are you running the HD into live?
DT50, DT25...a pair of SVs sometimes...I am sure the no cab option is what I would want...
The other nice thing about the no cab option is for folks that like using thier own IR cabs...
Live Mode is certainly good enough...For some amp models, the companion live cab really helps center the tone so I don't have to hack the tone stack so much...especially with the DT50...the LIVE mode cabs seem to work pretty nice there...But I also use a 212 sealed cab in tandem with my DT50112 and I "think" that no cab open up the tone of the preamp models a bit...I think there are few folks that have asked for the ability to run thier own IRs also...I don't think No Cab and DEPs would be an either or thing...Those are two completely different features...
Interesting. I have not used the DT amps myself....but I thought the "L6 LINK" was designed to optimize the amp for what the HD was dishing out. If you are having a problem with them connected, it sounds like L6 didn't optimize it well enough for your taste - So I'd conclude they need a more extensive update for you than just getting rid of the cab on a setting.
Now running the IRs I understand....but you made it rather clear that you use the desktop for your Direct tones (so this is someone elses issue). Since the Torpedo CAD isn't out yet....quite frankly the number of people using IRs LIVE is pretty much nobody. And if you have ~$700 to drop on a IR loader, you probably are nto using Line6 as your primary tone device (Axe FX or Kemper would be more likely). I also contend one of the main reaons people are looking at external IRs is becuase they don't like the L6 ones...or are unable to tweak them sufficiently to get where they want to go (thats the only reason I looked at them myself, becuase in reality it is a pain to deal with an external program and a computer just to try to get better tone). Perhpas the DEP editing will minimize the desire for this. Feedback from 500/Pro users has been positive in this regard.
I agree No Cab and DEP are 2 very seperate things, but your original post was suggeting DEP was less important of an update than No Cabs...thus the comparison here.
The link delivers the audio (preamp/FX) and control data from the HD400 to the DT amplifier...Some folks might see that control data as optimization, but I just see it as the control data that change the power amp topography....that is stored in the patch...It's really neat to be able to change from a real EL34 Class AB rated at 50 watts to a Class A 30 watt on the fly...The Negative Feedback setting is also very cool in terms of tweaking the tone...
I have no real problems with the cabs and the mics in the HD400...I found what works for me. Every patch I have in the HD400 was orginally spun up as a studio direct patch...I keep two sets of patches....FULL and PRE versions...More or less they translate quite well...I have two differnet PRE versions...One set if for the DT50 and the other if for the SVs...The channel volume ends up being completely different on the DT50 between Class A and AB patches...That doesn't translate to a fixed topo amp like the SV...
Sorry, I did not mean to minimize the importance of cab DEPs to anyone...I would certainly love to see cab DEPs happen...That's like having another EQ...but better...
I think snuffels9 said it best. I'm not unhappy because I haven't receive my free upgrade I'm unhappy with the experience as a customer. If Line6 would have been more transparent with us from the beginning and announced the initial 2.0 update is for HD500/Pro users only with an update for HD300/400 users later this year I would have been fine with it. Even now, they have to know users are upset and, to my knowledge, no one from Line6 has addressed the issue.
this update must be more amazing than expected.
they will put something more for realease delay... ![]()
Yes, we are way, way past the "coming soon" stage. I should have downloaded the Line 6 monkey before I bought the HD300, I don't use much for effects and the (4 simultaneous) effects I thought would work for me, I wasn't aware that the effects were in groups.
Anyway, even a boycott would do absolutely nothing to Line 6, I am dissapointed with them and honestly HD300/400 owners might be lucky to ever get the 2.0 update, ...L6 will probably release the next generation POD before that happens at this point, it is a pretty valid bet.
Overall, I am pretty happy with the HD300 as it is, although the HD500 is more for me and am trying to do the best I can to overcome the HD300s limitations, I will probably end up getting an HD500 at some point and selling the HD300..........I also have the Line 6 G50 wireless system, it works really well..................I would really love to upgrade to a Kemper KPA, but I am not sure I can justify the 2 Gs for it, especially when I have a new guitar coming in August.
However, the "coming soon" at this point in time is comparable to being stood up by your date, they aren't showing up. I say L6 should put change their post to "maybe coming soon".
We need Line 6 guy to post here
the only line6 guys that are on the forum are support... .they have no idea what's going on in development... all they get told is "soon" just like us.
If it is true that the support guys "have no idea what is going on in development" then it is just another indication of problems at Line6.
Someone (a project or product line manager?) at Line6 has to be tracking progress of the development. The support team should be able to talk with the managing individual and get a summary of the progress. It doesn't have to be a detailed report but it should be more substantial than "soon".
Over the years I have seen Line 6 take two approaches....Make upcoming update announcements and no upcoming announcement at all....
No approach they take ever satisfies everyone...someone is always going to come in here and talk about how the development process should work, TPS reports, etc...
How much of that is disclosed the public is Line 6's decision...I respect thier IP and if they choose to say "soon", I accept that...I expect nothing less from a bunch of guitar players designing, building and selling gear?![]()
i am selling hd 300
and buying hd 500
cant wait so long ![]()
You do know that as soon as you have your HD500 in hand that the update will come out right? You have seen the black helicopters right? ![]()
arresta wrote:
i am selling hd 300
and buying hd 500
cant wait so long
Don't be too hasty. I wouldn't give up on an HD300 update 'soon'. Who knows - given that Line 6 has had several months more development time.... and they've promised that they are workling on the HD300/400 .... maybe there will be things in there that even the 500 doesn't yet have. What ifhe HD300/400 and the Bean/500/Pro end up leapfrogging each other as long as the HD series lasts?
Do you believe that,, hd 300 s price will equalize 500s price?'' this isnt logical
The problem here is that update was "promised" by a Line Rep 6 by the end of 1st Quarter 2012. We are close to the end of 2nd Quarter and the only ones with the update are HD500/Pro/Bean users.
Soon has lost any meaning at this point. I understand development takes time, but this has gotten to the point of frustration for a lot of people.
Coming "soon" started almost half a year ago.
i'm sure there are people who know... and they talk... so support probably has ballpark information with orders not to publicly disclose...
I predict that the HD500, Pro and bean will get another update including 2 more bass amps and 4 more guitar amps before Line 6 announces that they are going to update ONLY bug fixes and proprietary enhancements to the 300 and 400 due to a lack of available resources for further development...
Actually I think you're close. I think this update to the HD300 and 400 will also be an update the rest 500 pro etc because many of the HD500 promised updates haven't been realized yet such as global EQ. Next update will equalize all HD products. That's my prediction.
this update will not equalize those pods for simple reason:
pod 3/400 will have always the effects chain limitation
Hopefully they will fix the on/off delay bug eventually at least.
I don't recall a global EQ ever being promised. It's been requested by a number of people, but I don't think Line 6 ever committed to providing it.
cant decide , wait or not
please l6, give us this update tomorrow, or the next day ![]()
I think it might be prudent for you to wait...![]()
phil_m wrote:
I don't recall a global EQ ever being promised. It's been requested by a number of people, but I don't think Line 6 ever committed to providing it.
I recall reading One of line 6 employees message on some board about how important it is and the need for global EQ in a promising manner hinting that Line 6 was working on that!
Nearly another month and still no update - WTF!
it ,,should be within the next week or two'', that was mentioned on facebook ![]()
You are funny monsieur :-)
Check out line 6 on facebook
http://www.facebook.com/line6/posts/10151673038280639?notif_t=feed_comment
That is a bold and binding statement. One would hope that the poster recognises the commitment implied in it and the reputational risks inherent. Males no odds to me either way (as an HD500 owner) but it would be a good thing to deliver on this one IMHO.
Well 1-2 weeks looks like not a long time to wait, I hope it won't ruin my presets
Wonder what will it give us.
Oops .....I thought you were kidding ! :-) Can't look up Facebook ...At work now he he :-)
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