Community: Is it just me.. or???

TheRealZap

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Dec 22, 2006

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Feb 23, 2012 7:36 AM (in response to teqguy)

Re: Is it just me.. or???

everyone i tell about thinks its an amazing idea... they just don't believe that it can pull it off...

but i usually tell them to go away and let ME play it

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markcockerill

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Dec 7, 2007

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Feb 23, 2012 7:47 AM (in response to teqguy)

Re: Is it just me.. or???

Sadly, yes. But I think it is gradually changing thanks in part to more and more owners of other gear buying into at least one item of Line6 gear of some sorts and finding out for themselves that this gear has true value for many.

I know so many musos where I live that use all manner of guitar/amp configs other than Line6 and most of them are sincerely blown away with what I get out of my dream rig but how can that be possible with Line 6 logos all over everything they ask. Before the HD500 and DT-50 head they probably had reason to be doubtful but not any more. My old Vetta just frightened the crap outta folks because it was deemed way too complicated despite it sounding rather grand. A lot thought it to be a very expensive gimmick that would not have long term mileage.

I think there will be a greater level of acceptance of this gear the more we go out and gig it and show the world exactly what this stuff can do. A few folk who come to my jam sessions have also bought Line6 amps purely on the strength of what I get out of mine, albiet their little spiders aren't going to sound quite like DT50. The reality is that humans don't like change and on the scale of what this gear is, it is a huge leap of faith to go from old traditional ideas of working and embrasing a technology that not only competes with old established methods of working but actively blows it all away. There is also room for the jealous types who are so frickin mad at Line6 that their own reveered gear will never be beaten by a new modelling company with inovative ideas that re invent the wheel and blatantly refuse to accept the almost inevitable. Then of course there are those who would love this gear but at this time just can't afford it.

The moment has arrived with this gear that will see the end of an era of doubt and scepticism, there is nothing anyone out there can play or sound like that I cannot achive with my rig and that must be infuriating, no one likes a cocky basterd but Line 6 has provided us with the ammunition.

The rest as they say in my view, WILL be history.

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teqguy
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Oct 22, 2010

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Feb 23, 2012 8:29 AM (in response to markcockerill)
Re: Is it just me.. or???

Wow, that is EXACTLY what I think.. The tone and effects are undeniable, people are completely blown away that I can sound like pretty much anything. On top of that this equipment allows us to innovate with new tones in a way that I am pretty sure was not possible in the past!..

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Nick_Mattocks
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Feb 26, 2012 6:42 AM (in response to markcockerill)
Re: Is it just me.. or???

+1 Mark.

There's also a heck of a lot of pure technophobes out there who have convinced themselves that they can't program this stuff in just the same way they've convinced themselves they can't use a computer, send a text message from their mobile phone or set their VCR - that's the main one I come across. I know a number of people i play with occasionally who always get their wife or girlfriend to send mobile text messages for them LOL. Rather than admit to needing some help in understanding, a lot of guitarists I know simply bury their heads in the sand and try to ignore the technology by sometimes blustering that their analogue gear is better and anything with a hint of hi-tech in it must be inferior. There's a lot of people that this stuff simply scares the cr*p out of them. It's not lack of intelligence, but rather a lack of confidence on their part to try something new and get over their pride issues in being able to say 'I don't get how that works. Can you show me again?'.

No one likes to feel stupid in a public environment like on a music store's shop floor and the fear of that puts a lot of people off even trying. Personally I absolutely hate trying out a guitar in a music store through an amp. I check a guitar over of course but only feel comfortable with it through my own gear at home. I'm not embarrassed about my ability to play in front of people, but with anything new I like to find my way around it without an audience LOL.

Unfortunately some music store assistants don't get it either and when they get someone in front of them who is vaguely interested in checking some of this stuff out, they are simply given say a JTV to try with no explanation from the store guy as to what it can do and how you can do it. And often as i have found they'll try and steer you to something more conventional. I experienced this when I first toyed with the idea of an original model Variax in 2004. At that time I hadn't got a clue what a Variax was or what it could do. I left the store totally unimpressed and none the wiser and didn't actually buy a 300 until about 18 months later. I'm not scared of technology either LOL

It is getting better though. The key to getting this stuff accepted is to get the gear into as many 'doubters' hands to have a go and to have someone on hand to show them how to use it at a basic level I think.

Nick

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- MerlinFL
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  Feb 27, 2012 4:46 PM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
  Re: Is it just me.. or???
  
  Rick - I had no idea that you knew MY other guitar player or my father for that matter!! LOL
  
  Technophobe = Line 6 loses a potential HD customer.
  
  I wonder what these old school PA guys will do with the new StageScape m20d mixer console??? No buttons, knobs, racks of eternal processing gear, etc. Ya think they might run screaming or just sit in a corner scratching their heads while drooling on the touchscreen?? LOL
  
  Me personally - I'm crazy enough to NOT be afraid or have my head buried to NOT want to TRY out any new tech. I cursed my HD500 for weeks until I had my "Epiphany" or "Ah Ha!! moment". For then all was good and now I can help those who are ******, frustrated and hopefully save units from being returned and in the long run damage the reputation of Line 6.
  
  Take care.
  Neal
  
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  - variaxlover
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    Feb 27, 2012 5:22 PM (in response to MerlinFL)
    Re: Is it just me.. or???
    
    Sadly, most guitar players are hopeless conservatives when it comes to gear. If Pagey played a Les Paul through a Marshall stack then that's all anyone should ever need, right? I know lots of guys who think that way. And yes, they look down their noses at my Line 6 gear whenever they get a chance.
    
    On the other hand, I'm a "pioneer" -- you know, the ones with the arrows in our backs. I get the newest, coolest gear before almost anyone else, and then often find out that it has problems, or becomes obsolete the next month when something cooler appears. Oh well . . . it's still fun being the first in town to own and try out that stuff.
    
    As for the StageScape mixer, I sent articles and videos about it to my soundman the day it was announced, and he seemed intrigued, so I'll probably have to buy him one even thought I just got a new Soundcraft mixer and upgraded my P.A. in many other ways. Guess I better start reading the forum(s) about the StageScape!
    
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    - MerlinFL
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      Feb 27, 2012 7:07 PM (in response to variaxlover)
      Re: Is it just me.. or???
      
      Vaxlover - you and I are much alike in how we think of new gadgets, gizmos, etc. I may not have the finances anymore to be the first, but I also now live in a place called Ocala, FL, USA where NOTHING is ever new and I'm VERY ODD INDEED playing a guitar with no pick-ups, and yet getting more sounds than anyone else. I thought that would get some guitar players to become at least interested in how I managed it. NAH...not around here. People here are still blown away by a guy playing his guitar behind his head. SO that should give anyone reading a pretty good idea how backwards this place is.
      
      Onto the non-related StageScape. I apologize for posting this here, but I've not seen Vaxlover for quite some time and wanted to ask this of you to ask your PA friend. If you guys currently use the relatively new dbx DriveRack+ do handle everything to do with FOH speaker management, feedback, etc., etc. Have you or anyone reading the StageScape description or and video demos talk about these types of functions working WITHOUT the matching L6 speakers? This is the single biggest thing I want to know and I've already pre-ordered the console figuring it might take another year to actually come out like the JTV guitars did...but who knows?
      
      Take care,
      Neal
      
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      - variaxlover
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        Feb 27, 2012 7:17 PM (in response to MerlinFL)
        Re: Is it just me.. or???
        
        Hey Neal, I'm afraid I've never heard of the DriveRack+, but from what I've read about the StageScape it should NOT require the L6 speakers to do its magic. That would be a travesty, in my opinion. There has to be someone at Line 6 willing to answer that question!
        
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        MerlinFL
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        Feb 27, 2012 9:01 PM (in response to variaxlover)
        Re: Is it just me.. or???
        
        I have no doubt that there are a few people at Line 6 who would know this answer. However, this is the only Beta group I've wanted to get into and have not been selected. I was told that it's all filled up and because of the weight of the speakers, it would be too costly to have anyone on the Beta team not in line 6 HQ local area. No one I've asked so far knows the answer to this question and several others I've. I guess I'll have to simply wait for the unit I pre-ordered to arrive to answer my own questions.
        
        I agree about the speakers, although I certainly would like ot hear them, but the console doesn't weight much of anything and I believe IT will be the biggest selling unit since most of us doing PA already have gear we like. I'm not sure why line 6 can't make enough m20d consoles available to those of us with the proper experience running FOH PA from small bar size PA, to just under stadium level concert systems. PLUS it is a recording board as well, which makes this unit the only one of it's kind just on that topic alone. It records every input DRY no matter what FX might have been used during a live performance so it can be transferred track by track into any DAW for proper mixing.
        
        The dbx DriveRack+ is in itself an amazing unit. It does so much that have of my rack gear is no longer needed and I just keep it as back up - just in case.
        
        Take care,
        Neal
        
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        MerlinFL
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        Aug 4, 2012 2:18 PM (in response to variaxlover)
        Re: Is it just me.. or???
        
        variaxlover wrote:
        
        Hey Neal, I'm afraid I've never heard of the DriveRack+, but from what I've read about the StageScape it should NOT require the L6 speakers to do its magic. That would be a travesty, in my opinion. There has to be someone at Line 6 willing to answer that question!
        Now that the M20d mixer unit has finally been officially released, I guess we'll all find out if your supposition was accurate.
        
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  - Nick_Mattocks
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    Feb 28, 2012 9:13 AM (in response to MerlinFL)
    Re: Is it just me.. or???
    
    Did you realise your other guitar player and your dad have been cloned LOL.? And multiple times too.. Nearly every other guitar player I know is sceptical about Line 6 gear.... Until they hear it that is :-) but even then they shake their heads and claim its too hard to get into for them. What gets me is their basic fear of even trying something new. I bet if Jimmy Page was seen playing a JTV59 somewhere the tide would begin to turn a bit more. My feeling is he'd probably be up for trying this stuff out..at least privately as in his Zeppelin heyday he was known to like using non standard gear, but he's probably contractually tied up elsewhere.
    
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- jasonbogen
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  Feb 29, 2012 1:24 PM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
  Re: Is it just me.. or???
  
  Speaking of getting it into doubters hands, I live in the Albany, NY area and have yet to see a JTV in any of the music stores and have only seen one DT50 at the now defunct Daddy's Junky Music. Guitar Center hasn't had either one. Just wondering how this is possible. Other than seeing someone like me using it live and letting others try it at my open mic night how is it supposed to take hold in areas like this?
  
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  - Nick_Mattocks
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    Feb 29, 2012 1:47 PM (in response to jasonbogen)
    Re: Is it just me.. or???
    
    Yep. That's a good point. Getting the guitars into smaller and independent stores would help as would getting the new amps out there too. Line 6 are certainly trying but hitting full saturation will take a bit more time I think.
    
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  - MerlinFL
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    Feb 29, 2012 1:53 PM (in response to jasonbogen)
    Re: Is it just me.. or???
    
    Hi Jason - I've been hearing those same comments all the way back to 2003 when I got my first Vetta. Then I heard a bunch of stupid remarks when I got my first Variax 700 that has no visible pick-ups. Yet, I always got remarks about "how are you getting all those different sounds"..or "Where are the pickups on that thing?"..and "How did you go from a Resonator in open G to a Les Paul with high gain and back again during the same song without ever switching anything."
    
    Yep - it's a bit lonely out here in Line 6 world. But you're having fun, I'm enjoying every minute of it, but I have said and will continue to say that Line 6 is it own worst enemy when it comes to product knowledge by retailers and even worse with the general public.
    
    Line 6 needs WELL KNOWN new and veteran players using a complete "Dream Rig" in highly visible situations. Not just someone using a DL4 in their pile of gear. Nothing will change about the perception until Line 6 changes their business model of being elitist snobs who are "too good" to go and "get" know players to publicly use their gear and talk about it on the covers of as many Guitar magazines as possible.
    
    A perfect example of what I'm trying to say is the Marshall Silver Jubilee 50/25 or 100/50 head. I'm not sure what the actual model number is, but I think it's 2555 & 2550 respectively. This head is one of the BEST amps EVER produced by Marshall. I was lucky enough to be able to check one out the day it arrived at my local retail store back in NJ where I'm from. It was in the anniversary color of silver with an attractive chrome faceplate.
    
    I plugged my Les Paul standard into it, put it in 25w mode and WOW does this amp sing!!. However, not many new about it. Not many new how good it was since most were still caught up in the whole JCM800 thing because of Van Halen. NOW, tons more know about this head because Slash uses them. So there it is...even with a very well known company like Marshall, it STILL takes something like that to bring attention to a product. Now these amps are collectible in the original silver color, plus they are selling used for more than they were new decades later like so much other gear out there.
    
    That's my 2 cents.
    
    Neal
    
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  - digiprod
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    Feb 29, 2012 2:39 PM (in response to jasonbogen)
    Re: Is it just me.. or???
    
    I live near Paramus NJ, hardly the sticks. In fact a shoppers paradise with a Sam Ash and THREE Guitar Centers nearby. I have never seen a JTV of any kind in any of these mega stores. Never saw a DT amp either. I bought my DT25 and my Variaxes online unheard and unseen!
    
    When I wanted to test out a DT25 before buying back in December, I checked to find out there was not ONE in NJ at either a Sam Ash or Guitar Center! No local music store had any either. Nearest store that had anything was in Manhattan. So you guys are not alone in not seeing this gear in a store. I ended up buying a DT25 from MF as they have a great return policy in case I did not like it.
    
    I have never seen any local player around NJ yet in the clubs and shows I go to using a JTV, Variax or a DT amp yet. Living where I live you would have thought I would have. None of my friends own any of this gear.
    
    So I say march to your own drummer and care less what others use.
    
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    - MerlinFL
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      Feb 29, 2012 4:27 PM (in response to digiprod)
      Re: Is it just me.. or???
      
      Always do what makes YOU happy. I agree 100%
      
      I am just frustrated by Line 6 having their head apparently buried in the sand about this topic, OR CHOOSE not to address it.
      
      Digi - you remember Rich R. making the statement "World Domination"? How can a company have that as their mantra and not execute anything that might help them get closer to the goal??
      
      I'll still keep using and buying their gear, but I'm not enough of a customer base to keep the company alive.
      
      No one here has JTV or older Variax guitar except me.
      
      I met ONE person in a Pink Floyd tribute that had a Vetta, but he had no idea how to get the most out of it. He "settled" for a few presets and never went any further. I even gave him a disc with all the patches I created over the past 8 years. He never bothered to even load them to try them out. Simply pathetic and incredibly lazy!!
      
      NO ONE has ANY of the new gear. One guitarist that I jam with off and on had a POD XT, got rid of it to get an HD500, now he got rid of that because he couldn't figure out how to work with it. I once again offered a disc of my patches to get him started. He didn't even bother to take me up on that offer. Now he has a Peavey something or other.
      
      I've done several demonstrations before some of my shows and although everyone is impressed with what I show them, not one wants to be bothered. Everything is "Too complicated". Really?? I used to be Marshall guy with a Les Paul plugged because my guitar heroes growing up played that combination. I didn't use much by way of FX, but I still played out, still got paid, and still had a great time. Now I've got all this gear that can do literally anything I can think of, copy any sound I hear and yet I do not get paid more, I do not get anything more than when I just had a simple guitar/amp set up.
      
      I tried out a Vetta back in 2003 just like you had to try out your gear...MAIL ORDER. I am from NJ originally and I KNOW how many stores are where you are. It's almost unbelieveable that none of these store carry any of the Line 6 gear you mentioned. BUT I'll bet they have Beans and Spider amps, and FX pedals?!
      
      This is pointless, so I'll stop typing now and go watch TV to numb my mind so I can try to become like the majority of the population in the USA...apathetic and lazy.
      
      Take care,
      Neal
      
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      - digiprod
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        Feb 29, 2012 4:53 PM (in response to MerlinFL)
        Re: Is it just me.. or???
        
        Neal,
        
        The stores here carry Pods and pedals from Line 6 as well as the Spider amps. Not much else. I can see why some people do not even know they exist.
        
        But I feel the same way about Guitar Center which I think is the Kmart of music stores when it comes to carrying higher-end Gretsch guitars or any decent arch tops, to mention just a few things. Kids don't play these or even know they exist if they visit Sam Ash or Guitar Center Stores. The scary part is many think a Gretsch guitar is those cheaply made boxes they see in the store. Same for an archtop.
        
        Line 6 could help themselves a lot by having better store presence and making sure that the gear is setup properly for demos. Apple had the same type of issues until they trained the store personal and they fixed it when they opened their own stores. But the effort they made worked and they helped the brand and their products get accepted.
        
        The HD500 presets absolutely stink for someone without prior experience to hear what the thing can do. I even returned my first one. Now let me explain that I am a video and network engineer and have tons of computer and software experience. I even worked in two recording studios when I was much younger and worked as a DJ for years. I am quite comfortable with gear. I started as an audio engineer. My entire working life has been in technology, so I am not afraid of it.
        
        But the HD500 was a pain in the butt to get good sound. It was not until I got a DT25 that I finally heard what it could do. There is a lot to say about plugging a nice guitar into a nice tube amp and just playing. IF Line 6 can not make this easier and accessible, "World Domination" is just a Dream that is rigged... to fail.
        
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        MerlinFL
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        Feb 29, 2012 6:38 PM (in response to digiprod)
        Re: Is it just me.. or???
        
        IF Line 6 can not make this easier and accessible, "World Domination" is just a Dream that is rigged... to fail.
        I agree with nearly all you wrote and especially like this turn of phrase. Well done and bonus points for being clever to boot!
        
        I made the suggestion that line 6 have Kiosks in the big chain stores and/or perhaps open their own store as you sighted Apple chose to do. Wow, did I get tons of crap for throwing that idea out there back in 2008!!!
        
        Talking to some employees of Line 6 is like talking to a recorded brain washing message. These employees are so full of the company mottos, mantras, etc. that they have lost all power to think for themselves. At least that is how it seems to me. Perhaps it's the difference between NYC thinking vs. LA thinking. East coast vs. West coast??
        
        Now Line 6 comes out with a truly revolutionary PA system that no one can afford even on payment plans with stores that offer payment plans. With what we've discussed here, how do you think the PA systems are going to fair? What store is going to stock even one COMPLETE system which would be a Console, a pair of top cabs, a pair of subs, and at least a pair of top cabs that act as monitors when turned on their side. That is exactly $9,299.93 + shipping costs. Know any working club band that has this kind of money to lay out for a PA? Know any PA guys who want to TRY this out for this price and MAYBE like how it works, then spend a small fortune just to ship it all back if it's not what it is advertised to be??? Personally, I'd be happy to try out just the console to see what IT can do compared to what I already have.
        
        Well, if Line 6 ever decides to do what you & I seem to agree upon, I'd be willing to get hired to be one of the people who sets up and trains those who would be selling the products.
        
        I guess this is just my "Dream". LOL
        
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        digiprod
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        Feb 29, 2012 7:05 PM (in response to MerlinFL)
        Re: Is it just me.. or???
        
        Neal,
        
        The brainwashing you mention is pretty common in many companies, especially corporate America. I call it Koll-aide drinking. In many companies you have what I call Kool-aide drinkers, Kool-aide mixers and the brain dead.
        
        I do not mean to sound harsh, but this is pretty common. I work for fortune 20 company for the last 11 years and this is the common thing I see. Don't dare disagree with what the company does as you could be shot down for even saying anything. It always cracks me up how many people NEVER read industry news or any news outside the company provided explanations. It is as if they are brain washed with mottos and such. Go rent the movie Office Space and you will understand it better!
        
        I just recently quit (working my last week) to go to a smaller start up to get away from the attitude. What good is it to never see what is wrong and a better way to fix things. But some companies are what I call frozen in fear and live in denial.
        
        I am not sure Line 6 could support their own stores, but setting up a demo area in large chains like GC could go a long way. They need to make the deals they need to push their technology and products. As far as the new PA, it looks interesting, but since I am not a working musician and have not done live sound in many many years it is out of my reach as to understand this market. It appears to me the product being at that price point will be challenged to be successful. So agree with you. I have to ask, who are they marketing this PA too?
        
        The hole I see in the Line 6 product line from my perspective is they should have a smaller tube amp as this is a nice size market these days for home and studio. Most major amp makers have one these days like Blackstar, Fender, Dr Z, Marshall, etc. Yes they make the SS small modeling amps, but many players including myself are not in love with these. The current JTV line up could use some adjustment as no Floyd Rose on a shredder guitar? how about a Telecaster shape, a Bass, new Acoustics?
        
        If they could get some name players playing the JTV guitars it would be helpful. They probably should just make a promo deal with some players like Fender, Gibson, etc.
        
        So how did you end up in that part of Florida anyway? Did you hate NJ that much, hahaha? I have been in your part of Florida once driving thru to the Keys I think.
        
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        MerlinFL
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        Feb 29, 2012 8:21 PM (in response to digiprod)
        Re: Is it just me.. or???
        
        Go rent the movie Office Space and you will understand it better!
        Don't have to rent...I lived it for 15 years in non-Fortune 20 companies. I have patents on procedures that saved tens of thousands of dollars in various corporate the fields I've worked in, but I STILL had to go toe to toe with that Corporate Mental Illness every single time.
        
        I finally said ENOUGH and began working for myself.
        
        NOW gasoline is going up somewhere near $5.00 per gallon and "WE THE PEOPLE" are standing by and letting it happen...AGAIN!!! I wish I could resurrect Ronald Reagan. He was the ONLY president who actually DID something about the oil BS. But that is a completely different topic and I will stop myself there.
        
        Yep - 100% correct wanted to get out of NJ since 1987 but couldn't due to marriage. Ended that in 1993, then I had to stay to care for my Mom with my Dad, and after she passed on Christmas Eve 2000 - I was here in Ocala, FL by June of 2001. Now I want to get the heck out of Ocala. this area is nice to look at, nice to live if you have a family and don't really do much other than go to church, and the occassional movie theater. The music scene has died along with the economy, and I have no idea other than Vegas that might STILL have a worthwhile entertainment business to get into.
        
        Oh well - perhaps I'll figure it out someday. In the meantime, I'll keep Beta testing for Line 6. Perhaps they might listen to some of my thoughts and suggestions? Anything is possible - right?
        
        Take care,
        Neal
        
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        digiprod
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        Mar 1, 2012 5:38 AM (in response to MerlinFL)
        Re: Is it just me.. or???
        
        Well I am happy to hear you experienced the corporate mentality and understand it as well as I do. Congrats for getting out of it!
        
        My sister-in-lawis a working musician for many years in the NJ/NY area. she also teaches music at two colleges. So I know quite a few of the people in the area that play various gigs around here. I ran a DJ and Video business for many years and sold it in 2000. So I get exactly what you mean on price, economy and what working bands can afford.
        
        By the way not ONE of the working musicians I know who play out for a living use a Variax, JTV or a DT25. I also see no way they will be buying this PA.
        
        I agree on Reagan. You know Neal, you can always come home to NJ!
        
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        MerlinFL
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        Mar 1, 2012 10:35 AM (in response to digiprod)
        Re: Is it just me.. or???
        
        I'll come back because I really MISS THE GREAT ITALIAN FOOD, but you'd have to arrange for someone to take care of all the winter weather crap I hated once I got out of garde school. Snow was always great fun back then - snow days were GREAT DAYS! Sleigh riding and some snow shoveling, but it was a fair trade. Then into HS and then getting a car, plus a part time job, snow was no longer fun, it just plain s**ked!!! Then into the world of trying to get to work because WORK had NO SNOW DAYS!!
        
        If you can work the winter situation out - I'll come back. And the first thing I would do is have some REAL PIZZA AGAIN!!
        
        Take care,
        Neal
        
        PS - I do not know why more cover band people like myself are not using Line 6 gear. It works great and it allows you to sound like ANYTHING. not sure why a company that is NOT a "one trick pony" can't get people to use their gear?? I love my gear and always have. The PA stuff is going to be a HUGE uphill battle and depending on how much $$$ was involved, it might cause serious damage to the company if it falls flat.
        
        That reminds me - it also seems that Line 6 doesn't care about PERCEIVED VALUE, only the money they get from wholesale purchases. I tried explaining this to a few employees once, and it seemed as if I were talking to deer caught in headlights. This is a HUGE PROBLEM along with the others we've already covered.
        
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        MerlinFL
        1,667 posts since
        Jul 17, 2007
        
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        Feb 29, 2012 10:42 PM (in response to digiprod)
        Re: Is it just me.. or???
        
        They are gearing the PA system to bands who have to run the PA themselves because they don't have enough to pay for a PA person or would like to save the money by doing it themselves.
        
        What blows my mind is what research could they have done to come up with this strategy???
        
        I'm IN several cover bands and the pay is as bad as the economy. Gas prices are getting close to $4.00 per gallon and the price I wrote previously is the MINIMUM cost for a complete Line 6 PA system from ANY retailer.
        
        I also know for a FACT that most chain stores won't stock the whole system and might not even stock the console. The price point is too high. Not saying this tech is not worth the price, but it's not worth the price for the target market Line 6 is trying to get. Anyone like me could tell them that the idea is terrific, but the price is nearly impossible to afford. The average price bands get around here for a four hour show bringing their own sound & lights is $400.00, but more common is only $300.00. Which means that a band would have to play 20-30 gigs taking no pay for themselves just to save up to buy a system they will never hear until they get it in their hands - UNLESS you live near Calabasas, CA where Line 6 HQ is and the PA is on display.
        
        I already know the biggest complain so far without anyone even hearing or touching a single unit. NOT ENOUGH AUX SENDS!! They have 4 XLR sends. Most snakes are TRS balanced, not XLR. PLUS just like the L6 Link issue - you CAN NOT use XLR cable for this L6 Link stuff. you need TRUE DMX 3-pin cable. Not a single snake in the world has DMX cable built into it off the shelf. Which means you either leave the console on stage, and get an iPAD 2.0 or newer and the Line 6 app to walk out front and remotely control the console that you started setting up on stage. OR you put the console out front and buy 100' lengths of 3-pin DMX cable. You will need a minimum of SIX four auxs and two mains, not including all the shorter DMX cables you need to hook the entire system together with itself for FULL functionality.
        
        One other thing I asked and got no answer to. This console does quite a bit, but it does not do anything remotely close to what a dbx DriveRack+ does. No time aligning, no ready made third party FOH formulas like the dbx unit has. I'm sure it might not be needed if you have Line 6 speakers, but what if you're like me and want to try the console and will be hooking it into my mains & monitors? No automation there. So what time saving will there be for anyone without a full Line 6 system. Only on REPEAT set ups in places the band plays more than once. it CAN recall set ups that you can save internally or to a thumb drive. THAT WOULD save time, but even room acoustic change from day to day and week to week. Still might have to do some tweaking like usual. Now it's back to no real time saving.
        
        Anyway - I've spent waaaay too much time thinking about this system in the hope that I might be consider as a Beta tester. Since I'm not in the HQ area, I'm automatically eliminated. This thinking is a BIG MISTAKE for EVERYONE who has the level of PA experience I have NOT to give a console to test drive.
        
        Sorry for the small book - take care,
        Neal
        
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digiprod

616 posts since
Jun 9, 2007

Currently Being Moderated

Feb 23, 2012 7:53 AM (in response to teqguy)

Re: Is it just me.. or???

Part of the issue for me was a bad experience with my first HD500. It just did not sound that great into any of my tube amps or studio speakers. I actually returned the HD500. The DT25 made all the difference and I bought another HD500. The firmware update and the DT25 made the for a great versatile rig along with JTV-59.

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JanKupsa

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Feb 23, 2012 8:00 AM (in response to teqguy)

Re: Is it just me.. or???

I have experience that there are two types of people after they've seen and heard Dream rig. First type is "hmmm, but Les Paul and Marshall sounds better and I don't need Fender strat or tele nor Vox amp sound. And why to have alternate tunings, I play everything in E!" - in my opinion Dream rig isn't for those... Second type is "hmm, where have you bought it?" ;-)

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scotty_burford

89 posts since
Sep 14, 2009

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Feb 23, 2012 9:10 AM (in response to teqguy)

Re: Is it just me.. or???

As a professional player who has done a lot of session work I have encountered this sort of prejudice time and again. I own several guitars and have had various setups over the years that have caused people to comment. I have tried to explain that an archtop is different to a strat, etc; that me playing a country gig will warrant different tonal choices to playing U2 covers, or that playing incidental music for a documentary may well require anything from a Satch-inspired guitar sound to something akin to Landau. Most of the time they still don't get it.

I have not owned a Line 6 amp before the DT-25 but it has been the subject of a few criticisms before I had even turned it on. Last weekend I played in a venue after some other guys had finsihed their set. When they saw me carrying the head in one of them assumed it was something like a Matchless. His attitude changed the moment he saw the logo. He criticised me for the piece of rubbish I had just lugged in. As he himself used a Vox Valvetronix (sp?) modelling amp I didn't really give much weight to his arguments.

The guys who have been open-minded enough to listen have commented on how good the tone is. How much like my old Fender channel 1 sounds. How much some of the other sounds I pull sound the same as a Marshall.

I have learnt that many people have opinions on music,gear and guitars and it is best to ignore most of it and go with what makes me feel good.

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JanKupsa

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Feb 23, 2012 10:19 AM (in response to teqguy)

Re: Is it just me.. or???

Just another idea: What really seems to work on those "Line6 scepticists" is when you have 2 DT-50s or DT-25s and set some dual amp sound with one set to mag pick-ups, in my case strat-like, second set to another guitar, let's say Telecaster, and of course set two different amp models. Then they really see, what they're missing!

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jasonbogen

357 posts since
Sep 24, 2007

Currently Being Moderated

Feb 29, 2012 1:16 PM (in response to teqguy)

Re: Is it just me.. or???

I actually let people use my rig at an open mic night I host and get that every once in a while. I have had my HD500 called a spaceship and had guys tell me they can't figure out that high tech crap. I just ask them if they want a Fender, Vox, Marshall or Mesa then tell them to stomp on A for Clean, B for Crunch, C for Dirt and D for Lead. It's not that hard. As for the prejudice, I just tell them I can get all the sounds I need for the wide variety of covers I play with different, amps, guitars, tunings and effects available at the click of a footswitch. I never really cared what they though. What will be interesting is to hear the reaction now that I am using a tube amp instead of my keyboard amp as a backline. Tomorrow will be my first open mic with the DT25.

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Feb 23, 2012 6:56 AM

Is it just me.. or???

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