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710 Views 25 Replies Latest reply: Oct 10, 2012 4:51 PM by jyflorida RSS
spikey Just Startin' 378 posts since
Feb 1, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Aug 5, 2012 6:51 PM

On Page 1 there are 5 listed threads about Problems with the DT-25....

Just saying, if I were shopping for a new amp this would scare the hell outta me.

 

Minor or not this sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

Come on Line 6- lets start kicking some assy line *** here...

  • sopachrga Just Startin' 80 posts since
    Apr 21, 2006

    It's a support forum, what else would you expect?

     

    Not only that.... it's a support forum for DT25/DT50 amps.....

  • sopachrga Just Startin' 80 posts since
    Apr 21, 2006

    There is simply no way an electrical product which has the complexity of Line 6 gear (and the quantity produced) will be able to have no issues. It's the nature of electrical components (and software).

     

    I think you'll find that based on the number of units shipped, there is a pretty low failure rate in Line 6 gear.

     

    The cost involved in reducing the fault/failure rate would be huge, and also follow a pattern of diminishing returns. The cost would end up having to be passed on to you (the buyer) and it would be pretty substantial.

     

    I for one, am very impressed at the quality of the items produced by line 6. I've owned much much more expensive gear from high end manufacturers and had more issues with those than I ever have with Line 6 gear.

      • sopachrga Just Startin' 80 posts since
        Apr 21, 2006

        As I said, your alternative is to pay for it. Don't think it'll come cheap either.

         

        I think Line 6 has it right, keep it cheap, know there will be faults. Given that you are talking about an electrical device with a 2-3 (at a guess) year turn over (Until it is superseded by a new model) I think that's the right move. I wouldn't pay any more for a pod/DT25 than what it already costs, to have the failure rate decreased. There is no need, that's what I have a warranty for.

         

        You have to remember, we aren't talking about $4000 Diezel amps here.

         

         

        There is no such thing as a free lunch.

         

        *Quote*:

        The point is that If its normal (acceptable) to have 5 % of our products roll off Line 6 assy lines broken,  just because we have a forum to discuss it, then that is exactly what we will get

        *end*

         

        You can make up numbers about Line 6 failure rates all you want. It doesn't make your argument any more valid.

          • sopachrga Just Startin' 80 posts since
            Apr 21, 2006

            Yes, and I did.

            I own a DT50 head.

             

            I haven't had any issues with it. I also know that if I did, my warranty would take care of it.

            I'm happy with the price I paid for it.

             

             

            Would I have paid more for it, with the thought that it might marginally lower it's (already very low) chance of a fault.... No, not a chance.

              • sopachrga Just Startin' 80 posts since
                Apr 21, 2006

                I would buy another one, or a DT25 right now without any worries.

                • sopachrga Just Startin' 80 posts since
                  Apr 21, 2006

                  Ok, obviously you can't tell that there is a 5% failure rate based upon the few failed units on the front page you have no idea about the total number of units produced.

                   

                  It's becoming clear that you are arguing just for the sake of it, with no real experience of what you are talking about. Pulling figures out of the air is a waste of your time and mine.

                   

                  Feel free to continue on your little escapade here, but I'm done.

              • sopachrga Just Startin' 80 posts since
                Apr 21, 2006

                BTW, you are taking my "Keeping it cheap" comment out of context.

                 

                I wasn't claiming that they cut corners and intentionally make a poor quality unit to keep price down.

                I was saying that they (as does every company) have a limit to how much quality control can be applied to a product before the price has to start to increase to cover it.

                  • sopachrga Just Startin' 80 posts since
                    Apr 21, 2006

                    oh, I have to come back for this one, as it proves my point about you.

                    You'll notice the post where I said I was done was actually posted after the one you are commenting on....

                     

                     

                    Look at the times.

                     

                    Have fun, guy.

                      • toneman2121 Gear Head 1,985 posts since
                        Oct 15, 2006

                        i know i caught this one late but we all can't be as perfect as you or your company. and i believe resistors are a bit less complex than pods.

                          • Iknowathingortwo 1,667 posts since
                            Jul 17, 2007

                            spikey wrote:

                             

                            I dont have a company. Im a user and customer like you are toneman. I dont like the results im seeing here. And I noticed since you wrote your remarks above (and since I posted this) there are two more DT-25's listed that are either dead,  or headed back for repair. So I agree with you. Resistors are a bit more complex, as well as a working DT-25 it seems... Make all the excuses you want to. Fill this place up with broken Line 6 gear and use the excuses that they are listed here because its a support forum. Good for the forum cause otherwise we wouldnt know- bad for the amounts of bad units however, dont you think?  You think people dont do any research these days on a support forum? Let me spell it out... Less sales mean less updates. Less updates means less time on the shelves for yours and my amp/gear.  Less time on the shelves mean we get our amps replaced sooner by other amp/gear that also can be listed here as being broken, at which time you can all make even more excuses as to why its listed here, again. Am I the only one here that see's an issue with lots of broken DT-25's recently?

                             

                            Not to drag you into my personal Hell Spikey, but I've never had any problem understanding anything you've ever written.  Perhaps it's people like me that are always being accused of things, or misunderstood about most things written that are the only people who have no trouble at all understanding what you mean when you write a comment.  I hope you have better luck on these boards then I did - I got banned from several Line 6 projects because I am..."too aggressive", "too combative", and "too irritating"...or at least that is what I was told by a few who work at Line 6.  Ever ask a question and get "Because" as the answer?  I personally hate that and will continue to ask or insist on an answer to something unanswered I feel very strongly about.  It's almost as bad as being completely ignored when finding a problem to submit before it escalates into something potentially much bigger and find that no one cares or wants to know what I have to say.  Apparently none of those people have ever lived in or worked in the NYC area like I had for decades prior to moving to FL.  Funny thing - some of those people don't work there anymore and most all of the "old guard" that was as enthusiastic as I used to be, are now working full-time elsewhere.  Go figure?

                             

                            All the best and take take!!

                            Neal

                             

                            PS - I had fun writing all these posts all over the forum after my self-imposed absence.  Now I can go back to just reading whatever is written and actually do work for the other companies who have no problem with my enthusiasm about their products.

    • Iknowathingortwo 1,667 posts since
      Jul 17, 2007

      sopachrga wrote:

       

      I for one, am very impressed at the quality of the items produced by line 6.

      Have you compared Line 6 gear produced starting with the JTV line, POD HD line, and the DT line with all other products produced earlier when making your statement I quoted?

       

      Not looking to start anything and I take no responsibility if my words are misunderstood as combative by those extra sensitive people who might be reading.

       

      I'm only pointing out what is clear to anyone who -like myself- does own both the older L6 gear and nearly all of the new L6 gear.  The DT amps are the biggest let down in construction quality in my opinion.  Here are the points I am basing my remarks on...

       

      1. All L6 amps from any line came with corner protectors (plastic or metal) until the DT series which have none and cost more & weigh more than most all prior amps.  Cutting corners is one, thing, but leaving them off completely to save a few pennies in production and a few dollars off the profit margin - not acceptable in my opinion based on the facts and reality of all gear by just Line 6 produced before the DT amp line.
      2. The tolex covering is by far the thinnest tolex covering I've ever seen in my near 35 years of using pro grade amps like Marshall, Fender, Ampeg, Acoustic, Orange, etc.  You can literally scratch this covering with your thumbnail.  That's pathetic and once again all for the profit margin and not the durability or consideration of those who buy this gear.  Please do not anyone say..."Well you can always get a roadcase for the DT amps."  Really?  No kidding, but that's true for any amp with corners, casters, and tougher tolex.  I've bought a $400.00 sturdy roadcase with locking swivel 4" casters for my Vetta 1 combo and amazingly...I've only had one mechanical failure since 2003 when I bought it new and have been using it nearly every week since for the past 9 years of live gigs in the worst weather for electronics here in Florida.  I now also bring a pair of DT50 1x12 combos to make my "L6 Pyramid of Sonic Bliss" (TM) yep - I even trademarked this title because at that point in time I was a Beta tester, and extremely proud of being associated with Line 6 and all it's products that I came to rely on and respect nearly a decade ago.  I still love my Variax electric model 700 guitars I have a pair (one trans amber & one trans red - interestingly enough, the exact same red as used for Wine Red on some of the new JTV guitars) of.  Those guitars made in Japan still work great and the sound is always up to date and by design should never go out of style or useful purpose.  I added the JTV guitars to them.  One other thing on this corner cutting point...I find it very interesting the JTV-59 has the identical headstock as the previous Variax model 700 guitars and is the only model with a completely different logo.  Only the JTV-89 & JTV-69 have unique headstocks which I find very strange since the entire line was designed, supervised, and finally agreed upon as the entire model set of James Tyler Variax guitars.
      3. As mentioned in previous paragraph - no casters or even pre-marked caster holes for amps that are very heavy for their size.  Almost like old school Fender Twin amps. No L6 amp I know of ever came built with casters, but most Spider amps are very light, only the Vetta 2x12 combo amp at the time they were new are pretty heavy, but even so - still weigh less than a 1x12 DT50 amp.  Why not add that feature to the Flagship amp line?  I'd pay extra for it if they swivel and could pop out for stacking.
      4. All POD HD units have inferior power connectors that constantly break no matter how gently they are handled.  Why not go with the RJ45 type connector for power like all the FBV and other footboards L6 produces?  I finally just hard-wired the power cord with strain relief on both sides of the frame so I never have to worry about the DC receptacle breaking or just stop working again.
      5. For that matter - why not have the POD HD pedals get power from the L6 Link connection?  If that meant adding a pin or two in the original design (retrofit - out of the question) why not do it?  Now the Flagship "Dream Rig" costs more, does some things better, some things worse, and you always have to have power in the back as well as in the front if you use any amp with any POD HD pedalboard.

       

      So these are my facts to base my question upon being curious about your statement.  No reply needed, but I'm just curious how much of what I just wrote anyone including yourself have given any thought to while defending the "new" Line 6 approach to production and retail sales compared to how the company used to handle all the points I've mentioned prior to...hmmmm...let's say about 2007.

  • whiteop Just Startin' 415 posts since
    Dec 5, 2009

    It should. My DT-50 has crapped out on me twice this year and had to be repaired under warranty. I had the forethought to get extended coverage for an extra $200 or else my amp would be a $1299 paperweight right now. It's a good sounding amp but is highly unreliable as evidenced by all the complaints registered.

  • RPascarella Just Startin' 30 posts since
    Feb 19, 2009

    As one who has a DT50 in repair right now under warranty, the biggest impact is the downtime without my amp.  It's been 2 weeks and they haven't even gotten to it yet with all the other repairs ahead of mine.  There's only 1 authorized service center here in Austin TX, so I'm stuck waiting.  Eventually it will get diagnosed, they'll order parts, and then I'm sure we'll wait weeks or months for a new power tranny to arrive.  Meanwhile I'm out an amp.

     

    Sure, the warranty feels nice for coverage, but when you're actually down and out without your amp, the impact of lower quality becomes more real and painful.

     

    Regardless, this is life, there's no guarantees.  I'd still buy the amp again, I love it.  I just wish Bogner would have spec'ed some better US-made transformers than Taiwanese-made Chuang Meei!.

    • whiteop Just Startin' 415 posts since
      Dec 5, 2009

      well I have noticed that there are quite a few DT-50s being traded in at Guitar Center lately. I think people are scared they're amps are going to go out on them. Well founded fears from what I'm seeing. True it is a good sounding amp and I like the design but two breakdowns in a year; not good. Not too happy right now. Wouldn't recommend it to any friends I care about. Might to a few enemies....; )

      • jyflorida Just Startin' 221 posts since
        Feb 13, 2007

        As a former DT50 owner, the reason I'm a former owner is due to numerous failures of all components of my dream rig.  In the case of the DT50, I would power it on & after "boot up", I'd get no sound regardless if I were using the Line 6 link or going direct to the guitar input.  I would have to power it off/on 2-3 times to get it to work.  The problem became progressively worse.  After 5 other separate failures of my rig, I ditched Line 6.  I haven't been on this board in several months & was wondering if it was just a run of bad luck with my stuff.  After catching up on the support boards, it appears a LOT of people have had problems.  FWIW, in 18 months I went through 3 HD500s, a Korean Variax, a US Variax, and a DT50.  I decided that enough was enough.

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