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3252 Views 35 Replies Latest reply: Oct 6, 2012 9:00 AM by UncleFestis RSS
neo10neo Just Startin'
neo10neo
18 posts since
Mar 12, 2011
Currently Being Moderated

Jul 13, 2011 7:41 PM

Your configuration in pedalboard mode

Hi all,

 

When using the Pod HD500, I typically have it set in pedalboard mode (utilziing footswitches 1-8) rather than preset mode. For anyone else who does this, I was wondering what effects you typically like to have in your board. I know its simply a matter of preference, but I'm curious to see what everyone likes to use and what footswithces they assign them to.

 

I always have a volume pedal set, and usuaully a chorus (the analog boss one), 2 delays (usually digital delay), and reverb (spring or plate).

 

Feel free to post your patches for convenience. I know it's all a matter of preference, but I'm just curious to see what effects you fellow POD owners like to use regulary when in pedalboard mode.

 

  • tommasi Iknowathingortwo
    tommasi
    627 posts since
    Sep 3, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2011 3:35 AM (in response to neo10neo)
    Re: Your configuration in pedalboard mode

    I also use my 500 in pedalboard mode, but we seem to be a minority. Also, I have found that considering that some effects (like reverb) are most often on all the time, while others are very DSP-hungry, it's essentially impossible to have 8 useful different assignment for the footswitches. There are exceptions, though. Here's what I do:

     

    on the top row I keep the 'pre' effects -- that includes distorsion (a RAT or a tube driver, usually), sometimes a phaser or a tremolo. On the bottom row I keep the "post" effects, typically chorus, flanger, delay, rotary. I have reverb on all the time, so no footswitch assigned. I usually have exp1 assigned to a wah, and exp2 assigned to a pedal volume. When I have no slot available, I assign exp2 to control the channel volume.

     

    For certain pedalboard configurations I assign multiple effects to the same footswitch, in order to engage a combination of those, or to alternate between 2 configurations. For example, to switch from a chorused delayed clean tone to a gated, distorted one by pressing one footswitch. This type of assignment, however, mostly stems from the fact that I like to run my pedal in pedalboard mode, and hence patch changing is a 2-tap job, otherwise it would make probably more sense to use 2 patches and be done with it.

     

    I think it's absolutely brilliant to have all this versatility.

  • ronnied50 Just Startin'
    ronnied50
    28 posts since
    Feb 14, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2011 1:04 PM (in response to neo10neo)
    Re: Your configuration in pedalboard mode
    +1 on pedal board mode,Just started using it that way a week ago,Pre effects up top and post down below but might change that.
  • Line6Don Line 6 Support
    Line6Don
    5,275 posts since
    Mar 14, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2011 4:46 PM (in response to neo10neo)
    RE: Your configuration in pedalboard mode

    Hey neo10neo,

       

      This does not appear to be a technical support question, but more of a opinion based question so I will go ahead and leave this thread open for further contributions from the community.

  • gregr Iknowathingortwo
    gregr
    639 posts since
    Oct 26, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2011 5:17 PM (in response to neo10neo)
    Re: Your configuration in pedalboard mode

    I used to use pedalboard mode to switch between two separate chains, one for rhythm and one for lead, which usually had a couple of things like a phaser and wah in front, common to both chains.  This was I was able to keep delay tails when switching back to rhythm.

     

    It proved to be too difficult for me to keep track of which button did what, so I went back to preset mode.

  • whiteop Just Startin'
    whiteop
    415 posts since
    Dec 5, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2011 5:35 PM (in response to neo10neo)
    Re: Your configuration in pedalboard mode

    I use mine in pedalboard  mode and have about 4 or 5 core patches using my fav am sims and usually 5-6 effects like this:  FS1 OD / Dist  FS2 Modulation FS3 Reverb FS4 Delay FS5 Lead Boost FS6 another effect of choice usually modulation or delay FS8 FX Loop on/off  I get a lot of mileage out of using it this way.

  • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
    Nick_Mattocks
    9,065 posts since
    Mar 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2011 12:39 AM (in response to neo10neo)
    Re: Your configuration in pedalboard mode

    I'm currently using my HD500 in pedal board mode because having the ability to switch the FX on and off using the front row of switches rather than the back row means I'm far less likely to get my size 9's pressing the front row of switches unintentionally

     

    The big drawback using the HD500 in pedalboard mode is that it requires mre tap dancing than before to simply change a preset.

     

    I wish it were possible via the software to swap the FS1 to FS4 row with the FS5 to FS8 row as accurate FX on/off toggling is more important to me than switching presets which is something that mostly only happens between songs; but switching presets with one foot press (within a single bank) is desirable too, so if the switch rows could be alternated easily I could use my HD500 in ABCD mode AND not worry about pressing the wrong switch as I over-step the front row

     

    I don't use 4CM either - I have a DT50 212 to which I connect the HD500 by L6 Link, however I also regularly use the HD500 with a Marshall valve head and 4x12 and for me there's no benefit in going 4CM as the HD500 does the Marshall pre amp emulation to a tee.

     

    For a lead boost I either add a Boost Comp or more likely I just have a spearate patch completely with the Channel Volume set higher, or if I'm going straight to the Marshall using a 1/4" output I often just plug in to an MXR Micro Amp which is in line between the HD500 and the Marshall's FX Return

     

    Nick

    • gregr Iknowathingortwo
      gregr
      639 posts since
      Oct 26, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 15, 2011 12:53 AM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
      Re: Marshall to a tee

      Sorry for being off topic, but I've found that the HD J-800 preamp model has far too much gain, practically no bass response, a spike in the low treble and a poorly defined top end compared to the real thing.

      • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User
        TheRealZap
        11,829 posts since
        Dec 22, 2006
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jul 15, 2011 7:53 AM (in response to gregr)
        Re: Marshall to a tee

        have you tried adjusting the new master volume control on the amp...

        i tend to think the 800 is done well...

      • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
        Nick_Mattocks
        9,065 posts since
        Mar 26, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jul 15, 2011 8:01 AM (in response to gregr)
        Re: Marshall to a tee

        gregr wrote:

         

        Sorry for being off topic, but I've found that the HD J-800 preamp model has far too much gain, practically no bass response, a spike in the low treble and a poorly defined top end compared to the real thing.

         

        Really?   I have the real thing here and plugging the HD500 into the real thing's power amp section sounds pretty much spot on to me with Cab modelling off and the output mode being set to Stack Pwr Amp, but there will almost certainly be variations in preformance and response between one real amp and another supposedly and on-paper identical amp, so that said I wouldn't doubt what you are saying with your rig, but here it's working well for me using a real Marshall tube amp head as the donor power amp - or with the DT-50 for that matter.

         

        Nick.

        • gregr Iknowathingortwo
          gregr
          639 posts since
          Oct 26, 2009
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jul 15, 2011 9:33 AM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
          Re: Marshall to a tee

          Yes Nick, really; otherwise I wouldn't have posted it.

           

          I tested the J-800 pre without cabinet modeling into the power amp in of a real Marshall tube amp driving and real Marshall cabinet.  That doesn't really matter, however, so long as you're doing an apples to apples comparison with everything else held constant (preamp vs. preamp, cabinet and poweramp remain unchanged).  I wish I had made recordings at the time.

           

          J-800 PRE: too much gain, no bass response, lacking definition in the high end with a non-Marshally peak in the low trebble.

          • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
            Nick_Mattocks
            9,065 posts since
            Mar 26, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jul 15, 2011 10:04 AM (in response to gregr)
            Re: Marshall to a tee

            OK - fair enough.  All you can do is speak as you find.  As I said I'm not doubting your experience and what you hear with your rig.  It's subjective based on a lot of subtle physical variables including the host power amp which can be variable due to the brand of tubes, age of tubes, bias settings etc...and the speakers in use in the cab and the design of the cab.  You have to remember that the pre-amp and power amp that have been modelled have probably been restored as close to original spec for that specific model as possible and that as a result the amp may be considered to have been optimised in a certain way, which is not to say that the modelled pre-amp is better or worse than the real preamp in your specific amp - just different perhaps.   Beyond that it's simply a matter of opinion.  I'm not arguing with what you heard.  I was just surprised at your comment that's all.

             

            My experience is obviously different to yours though - it works well here and as far as I'm concerned with my HD500, my Marshall amp + Marshall 4x12 with my guitars it is pretty hard to tell the difference in a straight A/B comparison with my set-up

             

            Nick

            • gregr Iknowathingortwo
              gregr
              639 posts since
              Oct 26, 2009
              Currently Being Moderated
              Jul 15, 2011 10:27 AM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
              Re: Marshall to a tee

              Typical stock, all tube-based JCM800s (eg: 2203) simply do not have that amount of gain in the preamp section and provide lots of bass.

               

              Again(!), if you're comparing preamp to preamp, the rest does not matter, unless you're suggesting the rest of the system (including the auditory system of the listener) is masking those differences.  In my case, the Marshall amp and cabinet were not masking the differences.  If I had made a recording I would have also been able to demonstrate that my psycho/auditory system was not creating differences that didn't actually exist.

              • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
                Nick_Mattocks
                9,065 posts since
                Mar 26, 2007
                Currently Being Moderated
                Jul 15, 2011 11:30 AM (in response to gregr)
                Re: Marshall to a tee

                gregr wrote:

                 

                Typical stock, all tube-based JCM800s (eg: 2203) simply do not have that amount of gain in the preamp section and provide lots of bass.

                 

                Again(!), if you're comparing preamp to preamp, the rest does not matter, unless you're suggesting the rest of the system (including the auditory system of the listener) is masking those differences.  In my case, the Marshall amp and cabinet were not masking the differences.  If I had made a recording I would have also been able to demonstrate that my psycho/auditory system was not creating differences that didn't actually exist.

                 

                 

                 

                Hmmm...

                 

                I understand what you're saying.  Pre-amp to pre-amp comparisons are not really possible without introducuing other equipment and necessarily other factors.   When it comes to tube amps it is also entirely possible that two supposedly identical amps based on the spec on paper can sound quite different in practice as I said before as in practice whilst in an ideal world all components used in building an amp would be identical and therefore they would perform in exactly the same way, the reality is often that components get changed between different batches because of the supply chain and what happens to be available.  Circuits also undergo minor revisions from time to time.  The age of the tubes the brand of the tubes the voltage supplied to thise tubes and the frequency of the power supply all have a subtle effect on how things will actually sound.  There are so many potential variables between pre-amps and power amps which are supposedly identical that will affect the whole signal chain.

                 

                We're obviously hearing something quite different.   Again I'm not arguing with anything you say about your system.  The pre-amp that was actually modelled will be what's being reproduced in the POD HD and that specific pre-amp is the key here.  I am pretty certain that before the amp and pre-amp were modelled they received some attention in terms of a service.  I'm not aware of any modifications to that amp which would cause it to behave differently, however I am pretty sure that the amp actually modelled by Line 6 will have been selected because it sounded the best to them from possibly a number of possible candidates they might have auditioned.

                 

                But nevertheless, my experience/opinion of the J-800 Pre from the HD500 into my Marshall kit is obviously very different to yours with your Marshall kit.

                 

                The only real wayto test what we are hearing would be to place my rig, your rig, a couple of different JCM-800 amps/speakers in the same room with the amp/pre-amp that was the basis of the model and to perform a proper A/B test - but that's not going to happen in reality.

                 

                A set of comparitive recordings isn't really going to work either unless absolutely everything is identical.

                 

                Personally I'm happy with the J-800 Pre and for me it performs pretty much as the real thing does in my own comparitive testing.  It is subjective and a matter of personal opinion/preference and without knowing the fine detail about the specific pre-amp and power amp that were modelled and actually having that amp in the room there'd be no way to come anywhere near actually proving or disproving that the JCM800 pre-amp model actually sounds accurate when compared with the real pre-amp that was modelled

                 

                If you believe it's wrong and I'm not saying you are right or wrong in your assessment as it's your opinion and your belief, then you should submit product feedback so that the product development team can be made aware directly using the Product Feedback link you'll find using the Contact Us link at the foot of the page and maybe the JCM800 pre-amp model will be looked at again

                 

                Nick

                • gregr Iknowathingortwo
                  gregr
                  639 posts since
                  Oct 26, 2009
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Jul 15, 2011 12:01 PM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
                  Re: Marshall to a tee

                  Those are great points indeed, Nick.  Luckily HD500 to HD500 won't have all the variables at play.  Even if the HD500 model does match the actual preamp being modeled (which I am seriously doubting if I am to believe the unit was stock and in perfect working order), that model is way out of the JCM800 ballpark with too much gain and not enough bass.  These differences are not even subtle and not easily attributable to tolerances wheras the top-end differences are more subtle and could be attributable to tolerances.  Luckily gain can be rolled back, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way when there is insufficient bass response.

                   

                  Out of curiousity, could you tell me which Marshall head and cabinet you are using?

                  • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
                    Nick_Mattocks
                    9,065 posts since
                    Mar 26, 2007
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Jul 15, 2011 1:03 PM (in response to gregr)
                    Re: Marshall to a tee

                    Right now I have two Marshall heads that are mine: TSL100 and a JVM205H which I can either use with a Marshall 4x12 loaded with Celestion V30s or with one or two 1922 cabs loaded with Celestion G12T75s.  I have a little 1x12 2554 combo too.  Additionally I have access to a JCM800 head too - I'm not sure of the model - I think it may be a 2205, and I've used other JCM800 heads over the years..

                     

                    Nick

                    • gregr Iknowathingortwo
                      gregr
                      639 posts since
                      Oct 26, 2009
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Jul 16, 2011 12:41 PM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
                      Re: Marshall to a tee

                      I  regularly use a JVM410H and own a JCM 900 2500 that is collecting dust.  While the JCM900 does have a diode clipping stage, it can be circumvented by turning the gain to zero, making it sound very much like a JCM800 2204.  I occasionally have access to both a JCM800 2203 and a JMP 2203 as well.  None of these four heads are lacking in bass like the model found in the HD500, and they shouldn't since they have very similar topologies and tone stacks.  Cabinets used are Marshall 1960A and 1960AC.

                       

                      Be careful when comparing levels of gain against the 2205, which, like the JCM900 2500, also has a diode clipping stage feeding the last gain stage before the cathode follower that drives the tone stack.  Remember, Line 6 claims to model a 2204 which has exactly the same preamp as a 2203.  Also be careful when comparing gain and tone with the JVM205.  The closest you will get to the 2204 on a JVM205 is clean/crunch orange.  There has been a lot of discussion about the tomfoolery in the manual for the two-channel JVM backed by schematic comparisons and frequency sweeps.  Clean/crunch orange on the JVM2 is essentially the same as Crunch orange on the JVM4, which is their approximation of a 2203/2204.  The overdrive channel of the JVM2 is the same as the overdrive 2 channel of the JVM4 where the middle control has been shifted downward in frequency.

                       

                      HTH

    • neo10neo Just Startin'
      neo10neo
      18 posts since
      Mar 12, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 15, 2011 7:40 AM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
      Re: Your configuration in pedalboard mode

      Interesting stuff to consider. I've got to try incorportating the "boost comp" into some of my boards. Would any fellow "pedal board mode" users be interested in posting their patches here? I'd be curious to check/try them out on my rig.

    • wjoyce Just Startin'
      wjoyce
      58 posts since
      Jan 26, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Sep 30, 2012 1:17 PM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
      Re: Your configuration in pedalboard mode

      Ok, I know it's an old thread, but this is EXACTLY what I need - a third footswitch mode that moves preset selection to the back row.  I find it hard to program patches that require all 8 without running out of DSP, and I'm forever hitting the wrong FS when aiming for the back row of footswitches.

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