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475 Views 16 Replies Latest reply: Nov 7, 2012 11:58 AM by Spiderplayer7 RSS
Spiderplayer7 Just Startin' 25 posts since
Oct 22, 2012
Currently Being Moderated

Oct 23, 2012 3:38 AM

Some advice please - should I take the plunge and 'go Variax' again? (first post)

Hi there,

 

I'm hoping for some advice. At the moment I'm playing mostly in my local church, leading a worship band, here in sunny Manchester, UK . Sometimes I'll use an acoustic set-up (Breedlove acoustic with Fishman Rare Earth Blend pickup, AER Compact 60 with XLR out to PA); sometimes electric (Strat or Tele into Trademark 30 combo, XLR out to PA). But sometimes I'll need both acoustic and electric sounds and therefore I take along both set-ups, or just one of them and compromise on sound.

 

So here's the question - should I take the plunge and go for a digital solution - e.g. Line 6 stuff? I guess I want to be able to take along one guitar and one pedal and take an XLR out to the PA, perhaps with some stage monitoring. So I could go for, say, a POD HD300 (hooray, it's got XLR outs) and two guitars, or maybe go down the Variax route, with a HD300, or maybe HD500... This would give me acoustic and electric sounds, lots of effects, lots of connectivity options etc.

 

But my hesitation is that I've already been down that route with a X3L and a Variax 700. I sold both as I couldn't get on with them for some reason. They worked fine, but I felt a bit dislocated from the sound coming from the set-up, there seemed some latency or something that didn't quite work for me (been playing for over 30 years in many different bands at semi-pro level).

 

So some advice please (I accept that this forum will have fans of the Variax - that's ok!). Should I go for an analog unit such as the Carl Martin Quattro, DI boxes, lugging around a lot of gear, or go down the Line 6 route again? And if so, would you recommend an HD500 over an HD300 for the Variax connectivity? Is the new kit (JTV, HD Pod etc.) that much better than the Line 6 gear I had before but didn't get on with? I'm particularly interested in the acoustic sounds - how realistic are they in comparison with the 'real thing'?

 

Or should I stick with what I've got and put up with 2 guitars, 2 amps, swapping guitars mid-set etc.

 

Any thoughts or experiences gratefully received! Many thanks...

  • afkasm Just Startin' 20 posts since
    Apr 22, 2011

    Hi Mate

    I can only talk about the guitar side of it because as I don't run into The HD or PODs . Yes your right this is a Line6 forum and some people are going to be biased , but there are lots on here who have been painfully honest about their experiences with line 6 so hopefully you'll get a balanced response.

    All I can say is I've been lucky as far as my guitars reliability goes , and the one thing that has impressed me the most is the organic feel and sounds , i tried the original variax years ago when they first come out and yes it sounded digital and there was a latency issue . But even when i'm recording on computer through Guitar rig latency is not an issue .

    On the sounds side of it I run the guitar into an A/B and use that to toggle between an engl half stack for the electric sounds and the PA fotr the acoustic and I've had nothing but great feedback about the authenticity of the sound. And if buying the HD500 was an option without resulting in another divorce I would definately have got one by now .

    get yourself down to one of the local music shops and try the range out . personally I think you'll be impressed

    Jon

  • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User 3,096 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007

    There have been improvements in the response in the Line 6 gear, so it's worth giving it another try before you buy.  You'd definitely be better of with the HD500 as it has the Variax Digital Interface.  I defintely dig the versatility and have been willing to sacrifice some of the "feel" for the convenience with the Variax 700 and 600 going into PODxt Live, Vetta II and POD X3 Live, but there is now much less scrificing of the feel with the JTV and HD500 combination.

     

    Cheers,

     

    Crusty

    • Rewolf48 Just Startin' 133 posts since
      Aug 9, 2010

      +1 for HD500 + JTV combination

       

      The VDI interface allows the HD500 to control the JTV, so change a patch by pressing a pedal and you change the variax model (including the tunings) and you can also turn the variax controls into extra expression controls on the HD500.  You can take both variax model and magnetic pickups as feeds into the dual paths on the HD500, so you can have acoustic and electric sounds at the same time and cross fade between them.... etc, etc. 

       

      The rig is really small and light - the JTV via VDI into HD500 then XLR to PA.  A small FRFR powered speaker (I use FBT MaxX but there are loads of other options) covers monitoring and can be fed from the other XLR on the HD500. You could of course use your Acoustic Amp as a monitor.

       

      I have HD500 and JTV69 + the monitor and I think it works great with loads of flexibility; it is also a single trip to and from the car; is assembled in a minute and gives the same sound pretty much all the time (acoustics of location dependent obviously).  But that same flexibility plus point is also a big problem for some - you have a large number of virtual guitars, and reasonably large number of amp options and a hundred or so effects all of which have been modelled down to the smallest degree of response (including overloading the inputs). That makes the apparently simple rig very complicated indeed - and it takes quite a lot of time to really understand how it all works; and it isn't necessarily that obvious.

       

      There are loads of example videos on the web that show JTV and HD500 combinations workinig together - some are even not just metal sounds!  Look at a few of those - especially the Line 6 official ones or ones from respected people (try the Andertons ones - it is a music shop in Guildford but they do some quite detailed video reviews that helped convince me). 

       

      Now comes the practical problem - to understand what it can do and to make sure that it has the right "feel" you really have to try it as the full combination; just 'cause I say it is great just means that it works for me but it doesn't mean that it will work for you.  The perfect answer is to find an existing user who you can spend a few hours with, but you need to find one first; I would be a candidate, but I live south of Birmingham (UK).  A very important factor is that (as usual) the demo patches on the HD are rather effect heavy and when trying the combinations you really want to start with a blank rig and slowly add components testing as you go - if you go into a Store and don't know how to drive the HD500 you may well be disappointed, but if you can work out how to get a blank patch and then add just an Amp you will get a better idea of how good the combination can be .

       

      Finding a guitar store that has both components actually on display can also be tricky - even harder to find a store where the assistant has a clue about how to put them together and get the right settings. Fortunately Manchester has more options that some, but make sure you phone first as website stock isn't necessarily in store (I wasted my first trial of a JTV because they only had a HD400 and the battery was flat so the JTV couldn't be powered up ).

  • lindsayward Just Startin' 156 posts since
    Mar 7, 2007

    Hi Spider. Welcome.

     

    I lead worship most Sundays with a JTV-59 and POD HD500. I'm happy

    The simplicity of plugging in to the PA is a real plus. I stand in front of a foldback wedge that gives me all the monitoring I need.

    I don't use the acoustic sounds much because I don't need to, but when I have used them they sound good in the mix (I'm told).

    If you're going to get a POD + Variax, it's a no-brainer to get the HD500. In a recent update they made it possible to set your tuning for the JTV on the POD, so I can push a pedal and be playing with a virtual capo - no need to touch the guitar.

    I create different patches for nearly every song (some songs share patches) we do at church, then each week I copy the patches into a different 'set list' so they are all right next to each other to step through the set on Sunday. Takes about 1 minute after the software loads on my computer, or if I do it manually it's about 2 minutes...

    All good here.

      • lindsayward Just Startin' 156 posts since
        Mar 7, 2007

        I upgraded from a Variax 600 + X3 Live to the JTV-59 + HD500. I do think they're both better (thankfully!). They feel like more 'mature' products.

        The JTV guitar is a really solid (literally) guitar. It's well-made and I think they've really thought through the electronics and controls well. I love the fact that the tuning is now separated from the models (unlike in the earlier Variaxes), and the integration with the HD500 is great. You could change Variax models on the X3L but with this setup you can control much more. You can set the tone knob (per patch) to control an effect, e.g. delay mix.

        On the JTV-59, I don't like the fact that the strings don't stay in the bridge when they're loose (changing them) so I've ordered some locking tuners to deal with this.

        The HD500 is a bit harder to use than the X3L in my opinion. It's more flexible, which is great, but it means you need to spend more time setting it up. E.g. with the X3L there was one button for "MOD" and it could only ever control your mod effect and you could only have one of them (per side). The HD500 has 8 buttons and you set them to what you want, and you set the effects you want, even 4 different delays... You probably know all that and are just asking for opinions... You definitely need to be careful of not spending hours and hours tweaking and adjusting instead of actually playing the guitar, but once you've setup some good patches, it's easy and fast to use.

        All the best...

          • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User 11,829 posts since
            Dec 22, 2006

            just a word of caution... the dealer will likely have a factory fresh model for you to try...

            and the latest update significantly changes the acoustic sounds...

            so if you get it home and update... it will likely sound different than what the store sounded like.

            you might like it... or might not... it's subjective...

            you can always downgrade if you like the original models as some users do...

            but when you do that you may lose some of the newer advertised features...

             

            just an FYI

              • klarkkentster Just Startin' 47 posts since
                Nov 1, 2012

                I am looking at the same thing for church as well. Tired of changing guitars/capo etc.  I played a couple yesterday direct though to an amp using the 1/4 inch output. It sounds pretty cool. Loved how the 59 looked and how the 69 felt. I think going through the HD500 > PA is the trick for cool acoustic sounds. I like a little wet acoustic sound anyways...not worried about matching or improving my current acoustic sound. (i think thats where I'm at mentally). I think i'm wondering how the vibe will feel jamming on an electric getting acoustic sounds will feel. There's alot to the sound thats from strumming/bumping an acoustic. I hope I'm making sense.

                • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User 11,829 posts since
                  Dec 22, 2006

                  you can actually hear some "body" in the acoustics... it's not exactly the same... but harder strumming seems to project it a bit..

                • phil_m Expert Line 6 User 4,243 posts since
                  Jan 25, 2007

                  From the playing side of things, yeah, it's a different experience, but as Zap said, the models actually are rather articulate and sensitive to playing style. To me, though, the bigger question is how much do these little subtleties actually come across to an audience in the first place? Unless you're doing extremely percussive things with the guitar like creating faux drum beats and stuff like that, I'd say the little nuances are often not heard by an audience. It really depends on your individual playing style.

                    • Rewolf48 Just Startin' 133 posts since
                      Aug 9, 2010

                      They might have been talking about a 59.  I have a 69 and while not a featherweight it is quite light as there are a lot of cut outs in the body - as well as the normal strat pickup + control cavity you also have one for the battery, and another for the CPU.  Compared to my other strat type guitars it is the lightest and also the most acoustic (when not plugged in).

                    • phil_m Expert Line 6 User 4,243 posts since
                      Jan 25, 2007

                      I have the JTV-69US, and it's probably one of the lightest, if not the lightest, guitar I own. It's definitely lighter than my Deluxe Strat (which is quite heavy for a Strat), and I think it's probably lighter than a US Standard Strat. The body is actually a little smaller than a Strat, and with the extra routing for the electronics and battery, that's quite a bit of wood taken away. I actually the 2-Tone Ash version with a maple neck, and ash is generally a little heavier than alder (which is what the Korean JTV-69 models use for bodies), so I don't think weight will be an issue with the 69.

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