Feb 1, 2013 11:08 PM
HD 300 does not make my crappy Behringer sound like my Fender amp
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Am I asking too much? What is the minimum playback amp for getting decent modeling out of the HD300? I have a Fender single 12" Champ (tube amp) and a cheap 12" solid state Behringer. I set the Behringer to clean and pumped the amp modeling in to see if I could make it sound good -- not really, maybe a little better than stock but not too much better. The Fender Champ sounded good, but then it sounds good without modeling, I'm not sure I got any real improvement. Am I asking too much? Or is there something I am missing?
Is there an mp3 or cd input on ur behringer? You could try that
The output settins on the pod will make a big difference too, and there are some things you need to check out in the manual. Pre amp vs full amp modelling. Combo front/ combo power amp and studio direct. If you're using the clean p channel and connecting to the front, use combo front output mode. You will need to tweak the EQ on ur amp and the combo front settings on the pod. Some will be trial and error, other things may not be. E.g. Setting the EQ on you amp all to the middle may not be flat, an it needs go be flat for the pod to work in combo front output mode.
Using studio direct into the mo3/cd input if you have one, and use full amp models maybe easier to get sounding better, as even the clean channel on your amp will colour the sound, as not all clean channels are create equal.
Hope this helps
Rowbi
Thanks for the suggestions, the Behringer does have a CD in. I take it from your answer that you think I have a chance of making that Behringer 12" speaker sing- that would be sweet. I would love to replicate the warm tube sound I get from the Fender Super Champ, I don't know if HD modeling is up to that task has anyone done that? Model a good tube sound through a solid state amp? Or do you have to start with a good tube amp from the get go?
To a certain extent you are swimming against the current on this one. The Behringer amp is not a full range flat response (FRFR) design and the HD 300 will not be able to express its full potential. Think of it like this if you gave a great dvd player but you play it through the auxillary input on a clock radio you wont feel the bass from explosions in films. You output is limited by the weakest link in the chain. The Champ may not be FRFR but I bet it expresses a fuller range of frequency than the Behringer.
you make a good point, but there's some things that are worth checking which may improve what is heard, which may then be close enough.
Cheers
Rowbi
Agreed you can always optimize to a certain point.
So the answer is "To get the real benefits of HD modeling we need a FRFR amp". Did I get that right?
That or the Line 6 Dt series amps as they actually switch the power section topology to match the HD preamp. They however aren't as good for other instrument types than guitar. A lot of keyboard amps are really good FRFR amps. I personally use a DT25.
Not necessarily, integration into a traditional rig is very possible and viable, but it depends a lot on what kind of signal I/O and routing you can do.
The thing you want to avoid for the most part is doubling of preamp stages, and to a lesser extent, doubling of any stage of the rig.
With the Line In, you are only using the power amp and speaker of the Behringer, so you can use modelling for the preamp, EQ, and FX without doubling anything. Then you can also mess with the tone shaping that mic and cabinet models provide.
You have no FX loop, which is the ideal way to do this. Since the Line In doesnt work well, you must use the front input. It's going to be harder to get all around good sound becuase by doing that, you are doubling the preamps.
Set the global output mode to Combo Front to start. In this case I would also start with only Preamp models, the Bass and Treble on the Behringer on 5, and the Contour on 0. Using patches you like the sound of with the Line In, try to tweak the EQ on the Behringer to get as close to that as you can, without changing the settings on the POD. Do this at the highest volume you intend to play at.
Yes what you intend to do with it matters most. I feel the HD series is very versitile but still will be limited by the weakest link in the signal chain. In my case the DT series has no tweeter so accoustic guitars and vocals will sound muffled. It was designed to integrate with the HD preamps to faithfully recreate the analog tube power section of those modeled amps but is not good for instruments that require DI. I do not use my rig for anything other than electric guitars so this suits my needs. The best way I can state this is, if the amp you want to intigrate with sounds great in the first place you should be able to have the HD device sound great as well. If not, the HD will not magically transform mediocre into great. If you like the sound of cheap amps, good on you, you can get some very unique sounds out of that. If the goal is to sound as close to what is modeled then you need to get a clean full response power amp. In all cases I agree, if you are using an amp that allows it, input directly to the power section.
I have a POD 500/DT50/Behringer 4 x 12 cab. I thinks the cabinet is the weekest link in the chain. It just sounds like poo-poo. I saving up now to get a DT50 412 cabinet.
Definitely try getting straight to the power amp, via FX return, CD/Line In, Slave In, etc.
I used to run a Berhinger 212 combo that way with outboard preamp/FX, and it sounded pretty dang good TBH. It sounded better than the same rig through the power amp/cabinet of a peavery half stack anyway. I only stopped using the Behringer when I moned to a real tube head and Ampeg cabinet.
What model is your Behringer BTW?
So far I have tried going in the CD input to the Behringer, with the HD300 set to full volume output, Line and Studio. I have much better sound but the limiting factor is the amplification as I my max volume is dependent on Guitar vol all up, HD300 pedal floored, rear vol output all up, and perhaps the chanel vol all up. Good tone but not much volume. I guess the CD input of the Behringer bypasses the amp. So the only amp I have is the HD 300 pre amp (if that is correct termonology).
Behringer 30 watt GTX 30. Not a big investment. For practice or home jamming it will work fine with the Studio out to CD in. I am able to get some good tones with that and the max volume is about the max my wife will allow anyway.
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