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Up to Discussions in Variax Guitars / Bass / Workbench
358 Views 23 Replies Latest reply: Feb 14, 2013 11:07 AM by clay-man RSS
clay-man Just Startin'
clay-man
155 posts since
Nov 20, 2009
Currently Being Moderated

Feb 4, 2013 7:39 AM

My new thoughts on the Old Variax vs JTV support situation.

Hi. Many of us have been arguing about Line 6 slowly pulling out of support for old Variax models.

I agree that Line 6 is dropping people pretty hard here.

 

I have a few theories in both perspectives, both on what they should have done for old users, and why they're pushing new models.

 

What they should have done:

I believe they should have had some sort of discount trade offer for old Variax users. If they wanted to drive us to buy new JTVs so badly, they could have said "Hey, got an old Variax? We got discounts for old users. We'll dock a few hundred dollars if you trade in your old Vax for a JTV!"

Many companies and stores done this, and many still do. I remember trading in my old Nintendo GBA for a new GBA SP back in the day.

That is smart marketting. Give us a reason to upgrade when we don't have that much money to. You have to realize that's why we don't have JTVs, because it's freaking expensive.

 

Theory on why the JTVs are a better option and why they push it:

JTVs are supposedly the response to customer feedback and critique. We requested all of this, so they dished it out.

One of the things I'm hoping with the JTV, is that they fixed MUCH of the hardware. We have so many topics here complaining about failing components. I'm hoping to god they addressed these problems with the JTV. Hopefully the JTV will last MUCH MUCH longer without needing these obnoxious part replacements.

 

With the second theory said, Line 6 honestly should have done the first part of my post. You really are alienating your costomers when you say "Hey just buy a JTV even though you don't have the money". Like I said, give us a reason to spend yet again for a guitar after we JUST got one, or else you're saying "Keep buying our guitars because we want you to keep wasting money for no reason".

  • amx05462 Power User
    amx05462
    3,495 posts since
    Sep 1, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 4, 2013 8:39 AM (in response to clay-man)
    Re: My new thoughts on the Old Variax vs JTV support situation.

    moraly  your  correct.   but this is the real situation.    as i see it  from there  point  of  view.   ( not that i agree  )   bit  its  this.  we  got it  nobody else  has  it  so if  you want  it  you have to come to us .. if you dont like  our  terms... theyes  plenty of  others   who will buy our  guitars..

     

    based  on past experience   and what customers  had to do  to get anything at all from them    this is  my opinion.  fortunately  they have competition in other  areas  or that would be the same  with all there  products

    • clay-man Just Startin'
      clay-man
      155 posts since
      Nov 20, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Feb 4, 2013 9:09 AM (in response to amx05462)
      Re: My new thoughts on the Old Variax vs JTV support situation.

      Right up until everyone notices this problem and stops buying altogether.

      • amx05462 Power User
        amx05462
        3,495 posts since
        Sep 1, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Feb 4, 2013 9:17 AM (in response to clay-man)
        Re: My new thoughts on the Old Variax vs JTV support situation.

        i doubt that will happen.   people  like  new toys..  thats  why   they buy more than one  guitar. 

         

        but  i think  thats what it  would  take to really get there attention.

        • clay-man Just Startin'
          clay-man
          155 posts since
          Nov 20, 2009
          Currently Being Moderated
          Feb 4, 2013 12:55 PM (in response to amx05462)
          Re: My new thoughts on the Old Variax vs JTV support situation.

          I just don't get it though.

          As a business, you want to thrive, florish and be as successful as you can in being profitable.

           

          I have argued time and time again, that if they don't treat their guitars like real guitars, people will view them as kid's toys instead of actual guitars, and you'll have a whole demograph of people dodging the Variax.

           

          Line 6 already floored their competition, The Firebird X is garbage, and noone really knows about the Fender VG, but people also still don't know the Variax very well either.

          They could easily garnish respect and change any skeptic's minds if they hold their equipment up with respect, or else the negativity will leak out and spread. What they need to do is deminish that, and respect is the way to go.

           

          So as a company, success is nice, but don't you want the most out of it? You keep saying "Hey old Variax users, buy the new one" but again, why do we still have the old one and not buy the new one? We can't really afford it so don't have a real reason to switch.

          Saying "Hey, your old Variax broke? Too bad, buy the new one then, even though there might be a chance we'll pull the same thing if we release the FendGibTyler Super Saiyan 5 Variax in place of the JTVs" is making NO, ONE, want to buy a JTV, and in fact making people want to buy ZERO Line 6 equipment.

           

          What's the point of an inovative product if you can only walk 1 step with it and it no longer works?

  • sliding_billy Just Startin'
    sliding_billy
    97 posts since
    Jan 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 6, 2013 4:54 AM (in response to clay-man)
    Re: My new thoughts on the Old Variax vs JTV support situation.

    Line 6 has the right to do whatever they want regarding the old Variax.  ...just like they had the right to drop the Vetta with all the bugs intact after promising to fix them (along with numerous other "throw $hit against the wall" products like the Duoverb that they have dropped abruptly).  I do not claim to know how much business they have lost because of these business decisions, but I can tell you that it has severely impacted my purchasing decisions over the many years since I got my 1st original POD.  I still have some Line 6 products and even have an HD500 and JTV69.  That being said, I have been in a position to buy a DT and another JTV (either a 59 or possibly the new 89) and have chosen to spend my money on products that I know will last as long as I WANT THEM TO LAST and am willing to make them last.  Guitars and amps are not the same as computers and other electronics to me.  I have been playing guitars and using computers for over 30 years in both cases and there is a clear difference whether folks want to acknowledge it or not.  As for the economics/finance/accounting lessons... they are not on point IMO on either side of this argument.  This argument to me is simply about potential buyers making a decision about the life expectancy of a product that is competing with the life expectancy of a product that not only does not become un-repairable but in most cases becomes more desirable with age.

    • phil_m Expert Line 6 User
      phil_m
      4,243 posts since
      Jan 25, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Feb 7, 2013 6:54 AM (in response to sliding_billy)
      Re: My new thoughts on the Old Variax vs JTV support situation.

      Line 6 stuff is not meant to be a collector's piece. It's meant to be used and abused for a little while then replaced by something else. The stuff Line 6 makes is more on the utilitarian side of things, at least from a pragmatic standpoint. So I'd say if a major driver of a person's motivation for buying new guitar equipment is what the re-sale value will be down the road, investing in Line 6 stuff isn't probably the best bet.

       

      That being said, I think my JTV69 is a very well-made guitar. Whether or not I'll keep it for 10 or 15 years, I don't know. I really only have two guitars that I've owned that long. I don't have any amp that's made it that long. It just depends on how people think about gear.

      • sliding_billy Just Startin'
        sliding_billy
        97 posts since
        Jan 26, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Feb 8, 2013 12:06 AM (in response to phil_m)
        Re: My new thoughts on the Old Variax vs JTV support situation.

        I don't expect the Line 6 gear to become collectable either (was just pointing out a side benefit of other gear as it ages), but I do not expect it to be disposable.  Phil, that seams to be your take.  My point is that if Line 6 pushes the disposable gear thing, I believe they will lose more and more buyers as only those with enough disposable income to constantly replace their gear will be in the market.

        • phil_m Expert Line 6 User
          phil_m
          4,243 posts since
          Jan 25, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Feb 8, 2013 6:29 AM (in response to sliding_billy)
          Re: My new thoughts on the Old Variax vs JTV support situation.

          I'm not saying that Line 6 stuff is disposable, at least not in the typical way that word is used. I think there's a large level of functionality between collectable and disposable, and really, that's where most consumer items fall. You could say there is some planned obsolescence at work, I suppose, but I think that with a technology driven company, there will always be motivation for customers to ditch the old so they can get the new. There are a lot of old processors from the 80's and 90's sitting in studios gathering dust not because they're bricks, but simply because something better came along that replicates and/or supercedes their functionality with more ease of use, better fidelity, more flexibilty, etc.

           

          As far as Line 6 offering support for previous Variax guitars, I'm not sure what a reasonable expectation should be. I think it's like anything in the market. The availability of parts depends largely on how successful the item was in the first place. It also depends on how easy it is to keep manufacturing the parts. For traditional electrics, it's not so much of a big deal because all manufacturers are essentially drawing from the same box of parts, more or less.

           

          I understand the hesitancy some people have in buying the guitar. I really do. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I just think for certain musicians, the Variax is an awesome investment even if they buy and it's essentially worth nothing in 10 years.

  • clay-man Just Startin'
    clay-man
    155 posts since
    Nov 20, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 7, 2013 2:19 PM (in response to clay-man)
    Re: My new thoughts on the Old Variax vs JTV support situation.

    I can kind of understand Line 6's decision when thinking of the JTV as an address to V1 Variax's problems. People did keep pushing them to fix stuff about the original models, I guess this was a combination of both the answer to our questions as well as an attempt to rejevenate the Variax so they can push it in marketing, especially as something brand new.

     

    The old Variaxes were cool, but I haven't heard about ANYTHING about Variax until just last year, and they've been out nearly exactly when I started playing guitar.

     

    Like I said, I just wish they kept SOME effort to please old Variax users.

    I admit it, The JTV stuff is an amazing update on the concept, but I've said that a lot of us can't afford it so we're clinging to the old ones for now.

    I must also admit, that I probably wouldn't have a Variax at all if the JTVs weren't out, causing the V1's to have a major price drop in the market.

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