Skip navigation
698 Views 21 Replies Latest reply: Feb 21, 2013 1:41 PM by dbagchee RSS
Texxxxx Just Startin' 368 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
Currently Being Moderated

Jun 30, 2012 5:02 PM

Is Your Pod 'Cutting Through' Live?

I'm finding that I can get a lot of great tones for recording, or at home, but when I play live the Pod doesn't really cut through like a 'real' amp.

 

I was playing a gig last weekend and my son was using the POD HD into a Mesa 50/50 and 4x12, and I was just using my '75 Deluxe Reverb with a pedal board (compressor, Signa Drive, Flashback, Chorus).  The Deluxe cut through the mix with so much more distinction.  The notes were more defined and just had more life.

 

The Pod tones seemed to get buried, and the only way to get them out there was by juicing the volume, and that just seemed to muddle things up.  The tones he was using sound great by themselves, but seem to get buried easily.  We have spent a lot of time reading what meambobo and others do with EQ and have applied these techniques, but the POD, live, seems indistinct.

 

Any similar experiences?  Thanks... 

  • toneman2121 Gear Head 1,985 posts since
    Oct 15, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 30, 2012 6:02 PM (in response to Texxxxx)
    Re: Is Your Pod 'Cutting Through' Live?

    i guess the question i have to ask is how you're connecting pod to amp and how the pod's output is configured

  • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User 4,456 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 30, 2012 8:56 PM (in response to Texxxxx)
    Re: Is Your Pod 'Cutting Through' Live?

    When I have newish tones I almost always have to knock off a hair or two of drive and add a hair of mids or treble...with clean tones, sometimes the compressor is tto much....really hard to say...My first thought would be maybe the tone is a little too mid scooped...just guessing Texxxxx...

  • phil_m Expert Line 6 User 4,243 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 1, 2012 9:17 AM (in response to Texxxxx)
    Re: Is Your Pod 'Cutting Through' Live?

    Cutting through the mix is really very much dependent on getting the upper mids right. And often when set tones from scratch, those are the hardest to get right. The Deluxe Reverb makes it a little easier because there's no mid control, and having that chimy upper mid and treble that cuts through is just part of it's nature. Also, the Deluxe's cab, even though open backed, tends to be pretty directional. Any chance that you were just standing somewhere where you were getting blasted by it?

     

    I've never used my POD with a power amp and cab setup live, but I have used it direct, and I don't find I have any more trouble cutting through than normally. It's just about finding tones that work in a given context.

      • phil_m Expert Line 6 User 4,243 posts since
        Jan 25, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jul 1, 2012 11:54 AM (in response to Texxxxx)
        Re: Is Your Pod 'Cutting Through' Live?

        I've done both, but I've actually played live a lot more than I've recorded. The split is probably something like 95% to 5%. I've played live with the PODs going direct, and I've had a few Line 6 amps - the Duoverb, Spider Valve, and no the DT-25. I do appreciate a good tube amp, and I think that overall it's a little easier to get a tube amp to cut through. But I definitely don't think it's impossible with a modeler. Like I said before, though, I've never used a separate power amp and cab setup like you're using, so I can't really make a comparison there. Have you tried your setup with another preamp to get a comparison?

  • daveschutt Just Startin' 280 posts since
    Sep 8, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 1, 2012 1:47 PM (in response to Texxxxx)
    Re: Is Your Pod 'Cutting Through' Live?

    I would experiement using the pre- version of the models. I find them to be a little brighter-more presence.  You may also need to dial up the signal with the channel and or Master Volume to really push the tubes in the 50/50.  I've played exclusively live with my HD since it was released.  Playing both direct and DT-50 to a mic'd Blackeart 1x12.  Both ways I've had no problem cutting through and having a good sound (at least when the FOH sound guy was good).  I'm mostly playing about 1500-2000 seat venues so I've got what I need dialed in pretty good.  I'd also suggest getting away from the stereo patches  and go mono.  You may have some phase canceling which is cutting some of your frequencies.  There's really no point if you are going through a 4x12 to be in stereo.  If it were 2 2x12's spread on opposite sides of the stage then you might get a true stereo feeling. But even with that if you're going through a PA of any sorts you're only going to be mono in 99% of cases.  I really would be surprised if this is the reason it lacked punch.  I go $2 on it! LOL

    • Geekydaddy Just Startin' 11 posts since
      Dec 27, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Feb 16, 2013 6:54 PM (in response to Texxxxx)
      Re: Is Your Pod 'Cutting Through' Live?

      You should try to tweak with your band/son playing your patch(es) and tweak to your ear. Maybe try a mid-focus EQ after the POD mixer?

      • joel_brown Just Startin' 90 posts since
        Nov 26, 2006
        Currently Being Moderated
        Feb 17, 2013 6:22 AM (in response to Geekydaddy)
        Re: Is Your Pod 'Cutting Through' Live?

        Typically what sounds great by yourself doesn't work in a group.  Also you may have the right tone and the other players are stepping you.  Or a combination of the two.  Guitars needs to leave the bass frequencies to the bass players and vice versa.  Also avoid the muddy mid frequencies such as 200 to as high as 600.  Not saying you need to kill these frequencies but be aware that if you feel the sound is buried and not cutting through, you may need to reduce some of these frequencies. 

         

        Reverb will give you a distant buried tone where as delays bring you more up front but can still bury the sound if too much is used.  Layering compressors before and after the amp model can help punch through the mix too.

  • preciousgeorge Just Startin' 27 posts since
    Sep 17, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 18, 2013 11:13 AM (in response to Texxxxx)
    Re: Is Your Pod 'Cutting Through' Live?

    Hey Texxxxx...on the same Output Option screen where the "focus" option is, you'll see options for the lows & highs...factory default is -49 & -50 respectively.  Both will KILL your output tone, especially the high being set at -50...no cut through at all.  I've set both lows & highs to "flat".  Did you check those 2 settings?

      • dbagchee Just Startin' 235 posts since
        Apr 12, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Feb 19, 2013 4:07 PM (in response to Texxxxx)
        Re: Is Your Pod 'Cutting Through' Live?

        I play my HD 500 Live into the return of my Mesa Stiletto. It took a while and a ton of playing around as I had similar issues that you are describing get my guitar to cut through. You point about volume nailed it on the nose, I can always turn up but it never sat in the live mix right. My band rarely plays in a place where we run anything but vocals and kick drum through the PA so rely mostly on stage volume for monitoring and for the audience. Some of these things have already been mentioned but I thought I'd at least add my steps: 

         

        1. Find the sweet spot between the master level of the POD and the power amp. I found I get the best presence with my power amp cranked but it is simply too loud if I have it turned up 100% at 100watts with the Pod Master also dimed. My solution was to  switch to 50watt mode and I run the output of the power amp at about 80% and the POD at 75%. When you hit it right you get those sweet chimey, punchy cleans and pretty grinding distortion. At the sweet spot you really hear the difference between the amp models too.

         

        2. For patches being used at stage volume use the pre amp only models, cab sims off

         

        3. Try stack power amp - it cleans up the low end a little better since it's expecting that beef to come from the 4x12  Also if you still have the factory presets installed check out the set list for the DT25/50 - they have a bunch of presets already setup for low volume and high volume with just the amps without a lot of fluff. Makes it real quick to flip through the different amps. These were probably tweaked for the DTs but since you are basically running a DT type setup (just with fixed tube topology) they are good starting points. 

         

        I've found with this setup I can pretty much switch to any pre amp and get a useable tone without tweaking anything or adding a zillion eq stomps.

  • lukegeis Just Startin' 45 posts since
    Apr 2, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 21, 2013 12:33 PM (in response to Texxxxx)
    Re: Is Your Pod 'Cutting Through' Live?

    I have come to find in my many years of doing sound that there is a fine line between what sounds good alone and what sounds good in the mix. I have heard guitar and amp combinations that sound like absolute *** when played alone, but as soon as the band comes in it sounds like gold. If you listen really close to many of your favorite recordings and to the tone of each instrument, you will quickly find that each one is pretty unrealistic. It has to be that way in order to make it all fit. There isn't as much bass as is perceived and the mids are very muted in order to get the vocals on top. In the live world things are a bit bigger and rounder. The nice studio like sound you shoot for at home just doesn't always translate on the stage. You can get any amp to cut like a hot knife through butter, it just may not sound as good when you do it?

     

    I find that every venue is different and each one will require a slightly different EQ for each instrument. I start with the lows and get as little as possible before it sounds too thin. You don't want to walk all over the bass guitar. But you don't want to be so thin that you are set apart either. The low end registers should meld together, but not create a huge build up of low end when played together. Next is the mids and this is the most important part. Too much and you get a nasally, honky and harsh sound and not definition may start to go away. Too little and you get buried in the mix and you lose your spot in the mix. You want to get as little as is needed to be apparent in the mix, but not so much that you walk on the vocals or keys. The highs are a matter of taste. There is an old saying that brightness is next to godliness............. This is where your true presence comes in. Too little highs and you have no note definition and it will be hard to distinguish chords and soloing. Too high and your going to pierce peoples ears. When highs are to high, they tend to get ice picky and every note just sounds the same with a high pitch eeeeeee in your ear every time. Solos will destroyed if the highs are too much as it just sound so disruptive. You want to have just enough highs to cut, but not soo much that that you start to hear every little noise the guitar makes pinned to your head. It's all about balance. And this balance is a team effort. It takes a realistic effort from everyone in the band to acquire a sound that melds together. If everybody does a good job shaping their sound so that everyone can fit in the sonic palette, you will be full of win.

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)