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2728 Views 11 Replies Latest reply: Oct 27, 2010 7:43 AM by LoonyBin-Fizzbin RSS
DonBecker Just Startin'
DonBecker
1 posts since
Oct 26, 2009
Currently Being Moderated

Oct 26, 2009 10:05 PM

Need gear advice for cover band rig

Hi everyone, as the title says, I'm looking for advice on my current rig, I need to make some changes for playing in cover bands.

 

I'm occasionally doing some older rock, but mostly 80's thru current, and am looking for something with plenty of variety in the sounds I can use.

 

Let me add that I'm a past Pod Pro user and had a full guitar synth rig, so I feel like I know my way around hooking most equipment up.

 

My current rig is a 60's classic les paul with stock pickups, into a dunlop wah, boss TU-2 tuner, tubescreamer TS-9, then a Sansamp Tri-AC (an amp sim) into a Roland JC-120 Jazz chorus.

 

I bought the tri-ac recently to add some character to the amp I have. The JC-120 is the cleanest, most transparent amp I've ever played, period. The tri-ac really wakes it up quite a bit and it sounds pretty decent.

 

For those that don't know about the tri-ac, it has 3 amp sims, tweed (fender), british (marshall) and cali (mesa). I spent around $190 on it and I believe I can return it if I find something better. It allows you to save three presets, and there is a true bypass on it.

 

So the tri-ac sounds good, and I was planning on going out and getting a M13, as I'd read about them and they sound great. However, I'm wondering if limiting myself to the 3 presets on the triac for the amp sim and the clean on my JC-120 limits me too much doing covers. I'm also worried about having to switch effects AND the amp sim settings at the same time.

 

I currently have the presets on the tri-ac set to:

1. tweed, kinda SRVish, a blues amp with a little bite

2. british, kinda zeppelin, or hard rock

3. mesa, something pretty heavy, borderline metal with some crunch.

 

So for you folks out there doing a wide range of covers, should I just pickup the M13? Or should I return the tri-ac and get a pod x3 live? The effects on the X3 aren't as good as the M13, right?

 

Thanks!

  • feedingjoey Just Startin'
    feedingjoey
    60 posts since
    Jul 2, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 27, 2009 9:42 AM (in response to DonBecker)
    Re: Need gear advice for cover band rig

    Hey Don,

    I've played in cover bands for years. In fact I make my living at it. Your set up will depend on where your playing. If your just doing bars and local clubs I think your on the right track. Casinos and corporate gigs require a bit more detail. For the club scene I try and keep it as simple as possible. I have 4 basic tones. An acoustic simulator, a clean funk tone, a crunchy SRV type tone and a full distorted tone ala Van Halen.That's really all you need. No one will ever notice that your guitar doesn't sound exactly like whoever. I generally keep it to 5 effects, chorus, delay, EQ, phaser or flanger and pitch shifter. The Line 6 XT, X3, or Pod Pro do seem like logical solutions and I bought one just for that reason. However due to problems with the Distorted sounds not cutting through the mix and Line 6 ignoring my requests for help with the problem I really can't recommend you use them. So my working rig currently consists of a Boss GT PRO and a Berhinger FCB 1010 midi controller. I play Yamaha RGX-TT Ty Tabor signature series guitars. Les Pauls are great but for me having one of those beasts strapped to me for 4 or 5 hours a night reaks havoc on my back. Boss discontinued the GT PRO but you can find them on eBay for as low as $350. The connection options are killer. The unit has 2 DSP processors so it is really powerful and the amp sims are stellar. Of course every Boss effect pedal is available in the unit. I did the "UNO" mod to my FCB and put it in "stomp box" mode. So the bottom 5 buttons are as follows. Acoustic, Clean, Crunch, Distorted and Tap Tempo the top row is Chorus, Delay, EQ, Phaser, and Pitch. Pedal #1 is Wah Wah and #2 is Volume. I have the volume pedal set up so that it controls 6 db of Boost. So pedal heel down is your standard playing volume and toe down gives you a great boost for solos. The wah is set up so that it turns on automatically when you take the pedal out of heel down position and turns back off when you return it to Heel down. I also did a "Phantom power" mod to the FCB1010 so it now gets power from a midi cable. I have a basic Boss footswitch conected directly to the GT Pro that I use as a tuner mute. I run direct to the board and I use one of the GT pros many outputs to feed a signal to my Tech 21 Power engine 60. Your JC 120 will work killer with this set up. The beauty of my rig is that I only pull 2 cables to the front of the stage. A midi cable and a mic cable. The guitar is wireless and that unit sits in the rack with the GT PRO. My set up and tear down is less that 5 minutes.

    In the past I ran a Tech 21 Sansamp PSA 1 with a Boss VF-1 for Tone Modifiers ( EQ, Wah etc.) and a TC Electronic G-Major for time Modifiers. The FCB controlled that rig the same as I have it with the GT Pro. I still have that rig and it worked great for years. The only reason I switched was that the GT pro took up less space in the rack.

    If your new to cover bands please do yourself a favor and read the posts in th "TOUR ADVICE" section.

  • Pstrat Just Startin'
    Pstrat
    136 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 1, 2009 8:02 AM (in response to DonBecker)
    Re: Need gear advice for cover band rig

    So I have a personal preference when it comes to cover bands as I play in one.  I think if your playing a cover band it sounds best if you use different tones.   What I'm used to hearing is the guy with the JCM800 playing the same spongy guitar for all the cover songs.  This is fine, I personally prefer the modeling for some of this work.   I think the TRI AC should be fine.  You get more variety out of the X3 but that isn't necessarily good either.   Definitely get the M13 it's a very good investment in my opinion.

     

    My gear:  Vetta 1 upgraded-- Flextone 1x12 cabs x2, M13, and whatever guitar I decide to go with.

    Attachments:
    • feedingjoey Just Startin'
      feedingjoey
      60 posts since
      Jul 2, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Nov 1, 2009 11:32 AM (in response to Pstrat)
      Re: Need gear advice for cover band rig

      Yeah you nailed it Pstrat. You gotta have different tones. I've seen a guy on the circuit using a 5150 half stack and Wolfgang. If you ever wondered what it would sound like if Eddie Van Halen played Sweet Home Alabama, Brown Eyed Girl and Play that Funky Music.....well.........you gotta have variety or it's really hard to sound convincing. But I will say his Van Halen is awesome!

      To each his own. That guy's band still gets booked as much as mine so he must be doing something right (or I'm doing something wrong!). It really is surprising though how many people show up "Over Amped" I've seen a JTM 45 Full stack on stage and I know a guy who insists on using a Risson Full Stack. So there are a lot of guys out there doing it. The factor there is those guys are really "Tone freaks" and they just simply won't engage the modeling world. I agree there is nothing more fun than playing with a cranked tube amp. But when your playing in a cover band the drunks you are playing for will never know the difference between and Real JTM 45 and your model of one as you bash out "You shook me all night long"? I have never, EVER, since I've been using a modeler, had someone come to me at a show and say " Ya Know that just didn't sound exactly like the record". That's because even if it doesn't sound like the record all they care about is that you play their favorite songs. However I might be concerned that somebody would say something like that to me If a played with a JCM 800 every night because I just simply wouldn't be able to cover all the tones needed for 60 different songs and artists.

      So my best advise is keep it simple, and have a variety of basic tones. Spend twice as much time creating your set lists as you think you should and If you really like to play a particular song, chances are it shouldn't be on the set list! Remember it's not about what YOU want to play. It all about what will ENTERTAIN the crowd. If you keep them happy, the club owner is happy and you will always get hired back.

      • Pstrat Just Startin'
        Pstrat
        136 posts since
        Jan 25, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Nov 1, 2009 6:44 PM (in response to feedingjoey)
        Re: Need gear advice for cover band rig

        Right on, It's so much fun to go from a All out Bassman rock to a AC30 sound with one click.  No I may be the only one who notices it but I love the tonal difference even if the feel is a bit off.

         

        That being said, I can't get my Vetta to wail quite like these guys the all tube setups.   In the end maybe i have a bit of Modeling snobery if that makes any sense.      

  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User
    Karl_Houseknecht
    3,374 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 26, 2010 7:55 AM (in response to DonBecker)
    Re: Need gear advice for cover band rig

    I say keep the tones really simple.  Here's what I use in my cover band (80's, 90's and modern):

     

    1.  Clean

    2.  Classic Rock Crunch (like classic Marshall stuff)

    3.  Hard rock distortion (Van Halen-ish, modded JCM800 kind of sound)

    4.  Modern rock distortion (Mesa dual-rec-ish)

     

    With those 4 tones and a qualify effects processor, the sky is the limit.  You can throw overdrives in front of those amp tones to push them harder, use your guitar volume and pickup selector for further variation, boost and add delay for leads, throw effects around them to imitate what's going on in the song, etc.

     

    I disagree with wanting to sound exactly like the recorded guitar tone when doing covers.  Get in the desired gain range, of course, because you don't want to play Skynyrd with a full blown modern metal tone, but don't vary your base tone too much or your bandmates and the sound guy are going to hate you as they try and chase you around the tonal spectrum to make their instruments fit into the mix with your varying tone.

     

    Keep it as simple as possible.  But no simpler. (A. Einstein)

     

    My gear, for reference:

     

    Cover band:

    Amp: Fryette Sig:X or JCM2000 TSL100

    Cab: Avatar G412 Vintage with Hellatone 60's and T75's

    Effects: Boss GT-10

    Guitars: Ibanez S570DXQM (2 of them) with H-S-H configuration

     

    Praise and Worship:

    Amp: Mesa 5:50 Express 112 combo

    Effects: Boss GT-10

    Guitars: Schecter C-1 Classic, Schecter Solo-6 Custom

     

    And I still do the 4 basic tones for the worship stuff too.  Helps when you have a dozen musicians on stage, all fighting for a space in the mix.

    • Culpster Just Startin'
      Culpster
      47 posts since
      Feb 11, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Oct 26, 2010 4:42 PM (in response to Karl_Houseknecht)
      Re: Need gear advice for cover band rig

      I partially disagree. I think that your setup is right on for your basic songs. However, I use a modeler when playing out because there are certain basic tones that will not fit within the scope of your set-up. Let's call these specialty tones. Now, I may do this for my own entertainment, but there are certain songs that require a signature set-up. My set-up is very similar to yours, but I do set banks up for simplicity sake. For example, I have a bank set-up for Van Halen tunes. Sure I could use the Hard rock patch that you use, but I don't want to remember which button I assigned my Jet Flanger. If with the push of a button I can go to my Van Halen bank and the first patch has the tone with the flanger on already, it just makes it easier. Again, I don't have a bank set-up for every song, more for each genre. I may have a southern rock bank, a rockabilly bank, U2 bank, etc. These banks are usually set-up because a specific timing effect requires me to deviate from the ease of only having 4 patches. It works for me and you can pretty much set your patches at stage volume and be pretty consistent in the mix for the sound man. Just another approach I suppose.

      • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User
        Karl_Houseknecht
        3,374 posts since
        Jan 25, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Oct 27, 2010 5:18 AM (in response to Culpster)
        Re: Need gear advice for cover band rig

        Culpster wrote:

         

        there are certain basic tones that will not fit within the scope of your set-up. Let's call these specialty tones.

         

        I got those covered on some special patches like you do.  Highly specialized, though.  I do have a manually triggered flanger tone for that Van Halen thing.  I have one where triggering the wah also induces a solo boost (Bodies).  And I have one with a toy ray gun type of effect (Rebel Yell).  And another with effects for Fire Woman.  With an amp's clean channel and a great selection of overdrives and distortions, the sky is the limit for those outside patches.  One thing I neglected to mention is that, while the Sig:X is a three channel amp, each channel has a footswitchable gain boost so it's more like a 6 channel amp.  That's what I mean by my "base tone".  It's just varying levels of gain, voiced basically the same.  Of course there are multiple patches on the effects unit that handle specialty songs.

  • nuser101 Just Startin'
    nuser101
    177 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 26, 2010 10:28 PM (in response to DonBecker)
    Re: Need gear advice for cover band rig

    I use Karl's setup, but the GT-10 in one band is direct, in the other it's in front of a Twin Reverb (different clean crunch drive and metal patches in each bank). I modify Karl's approach just slightly by copying the same 4 patches into different banks, then re-programming the control pedals of the new banks to turn a series of FX on/off at the same time, or simply fix the bank with all of the FX turned on upon patch selection.

     

    But I digress. The OP wants to use the Sansamp Tri-AC and is worried about tap dancing. I think the need for dancing would be slightly reduced by using a GT-10 instead of an M-13, because he could put the Tri-AC in the loop and have a CTL pedal programmed to switch the loop on/off together with up to eight other parameters (be they effects, or effect settings), with one foot tap. The FX on the GT are pretty good, and he wouldn't be using COSM modeling, because the Tri-AC would take care of that.

     

    I think the amp models in the HD-500, from the clips I've heard, beat the GT fairly convincingly (although I've had good luck with the custom amp feature of that unit), so he may seriously consider the HD-500 for the whole shebang, especially if he can recover most of his investment in the Tri-AC. The cost of the GT-10 isn't much lower than that of the HD-500, and the HD-500 would be an all in one direct solution that wouldn't require deep dive editing to get good amp tones.

     

    I'm sticking wih my boss unit for now because I already have it, and it works for the kinds of gigs I do (especially since my new band is going more toward real amps instead of direct to board), but I'm not married to it. If I were to go direct again, I might think about an L6 unit. Then again, my experience tells me that the crowd really doesn't give a crap or can't tell, plus I've got a kid in an expensive high school and another at the University of Wisconsin, so I'm reluctant to part with cash these days!

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