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1791 Views 8 Replies Latest reply: Nov 20, 2009 5:47 PM by phil_m RSS
RobbGnarly Just Startin'
RobbGnarly
57 posts since
Oct 2, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Nov 19, 2009 12:41 PM

Whats up with the 4x12 sv cab?

I'm wondering if anyone else feels the same as me. L6 is an american company right? and I know that they build them in China to keep down the cost for everyone, and that helps out everyone. But my problem is the speaker choice. Don't get me wrong Celestion has made some very defining sounds, but are they realy the right choice for L6? I mean Eminence is made in the USA, so why does a USA based company use chinese crap? why not help out the Americans, and Besides that Eminence speakers sound much better than Celestions do anymore ( Probably that whole not made in England thing) take for example the Celestion V30 and compare them to a governor by Eminence ( just bear with me) I know they are not the "Same" eventhough they are compared against each-other. But the Governer is a WAY smother sound than a V30. And thae eminence V12 $69.00 retail kills a V30 what is it now $149? or in my opinion the K100 roughly the same priceas a V30. and for less than 1/2 the price ....RETAIL!!!! so wouldn't it be nice if Americans BOUGHT AMERICAN? I've been watching alot of the @hitty economy crap lately. So my question is Who else feals this way. I know there are some people who couldn't live with out a real Celestion speaker, but honestly are they still celestions?Eminence are made in the USA with ,and get this USA parts!!!!! This has been bugging me so let me know your thoughts.

What if L6 had a speaker option?!

  • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User
    spaceatl
    3,833 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2009 1:13 PM (in response to RobbGnarly)
    Re: Whats up with the 4x12 sv cab?

    I have always thought that with Celestions one is paying for a name and nothing more...I have never liked the sound of Celestions for myself...Always been an EV12L is the perfect guitar speaker sorta guy...I do agree with you that Eminence makes excellent speakers and the bang for the buck can't be beat...But for a lot of players I think the branded logo on the front of the amp & cab and the sticker on the back of the speakers matter more than what the real results are...I have always thought of that as an "audio placebo"...sorta like the guy who puts a BBE in the loop and cranks it thinking that actually sounds good...

     

    Also, I would support Line 6 if they moved manufacturing back here...It would up the price quite a bit...But I would support that...

    • mtrash14 Iknowathingortwo
      mtrash14
      539 posts since
      Feb 18, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Nov 19, 2009 2:32 PM (in response to spaceatl)
      Re: Whats up with the 4x12 sv cab?

      +1 Spaceatl

       

      I remember this being discussed on the old forum and I think the conclusion then was the amp was voiced for the V-30 by Bogner.  I don't know.

       

      I agree that Celestion V-30 is a selling point, regardless how it actually sounds in the amp.  I'm not an Eminence person myself but they do make fine speakers and the price is pretty good too.  I agree that Celestions are too much $$.  Have you checked out Warehouse speakers.  I would like to try a couple of their H30's.

       

      Just my .02$

      M^T

      • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User
        spaceatl
        3,833 posts since
        Jan 24, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Nov 19, 2009 3:21 PM (in response to mtrash14)
        Re: Whats up with the 4x12 sv cab?

        The deal on the V30s is the same deal it is/was on the Spider 2 & 3/Flextone 3 and Vetta II combos that use OEM Seventy80s...Those speakers are intended for 412 sealed cabinets and I think that is probably where Bogner spent his time. The use in combos is just a cost effective after thought that jives with marketing IMO. I have always been disappointed that Mesa Boogie got ****** at EV and jumped on the V30 bandwagon...V30s just suck IMO...But I should say they suck for me...I have heard dides that use them and I like what I hear...I just don't like them for myself...I have heard about those Warehouse speakers...Cool stuff...I am not a low power speaker dude...But I understand those that like that breakup...I love listening to it...It just ain't for me...

         

        However, I do think that a V30 actually works better in an open back combo than a Seventy80 does because the Spyder is so freakin rigid...The cone is too...I think the small VC gives a nice tone but the price of an ice pick...Seventy80s are loose as a goose and the cone is super soft...They sound pretty good in a sealed cab though...

         

        This notion of using overrated speakers in open backs is something everyone figured out in the early 1970s...Mesa is one of the firsts putting JBLs in the early Boogies...It not that they are JBLs...It's that an open back combo has no air pressure to control the excursion and the fact that a 100 watt tube amp can put out 300 to 400 watt transient peaks...JBL was probably the highest rated cost effective speaker at this time...Randall Smith is a smart dude and this is pretty basic speaker cabinet design concepts that are in play....An EV12L or JBL PA speaker generally have a rating somewhere around 250-300 watts RMS...That means a 500-600 watt peak rating...The bottom line was that people like Carlos Santana discovered that if you use an over rated speaker in an open back combo, it will lasted longer and did not go to fart city like a greenback does...The contrary is using low power speakers in a sealed cabinet. The air pressure stabilizes the speaker and it can actually take more power then it could in an open back cab since the voice coil is considerably less...It is easy to safely over power speakers in a sealed or properly ported cab...speakers wear out fast in a open back...

        • RobbGnarly Just Startin'
          RobbGnarly
          57 posts since
          Oct 2, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Nov 20, 2009 5:19 AM (in response to spaceatl)
          Re: Whats up with the 4x12 sv cab?

          +1 to Spaceatl

           

          My old guitarist had a Rectofier cab, and it was nice. But it also had V30s and 12T75s in an X patern, my friend did this swap on his own. But the Older Recto cabs are great, didn't realize they used to use Ev speakers.

          But I dont think Bogner "designed" the sv to match with the V30. I belived they were used because the V30 is like the Flagship Celestion design anymore, kind of like Marshall and the Greenback or the 12T75, you dont see them using the V30 do you? Probably because they know it isn't even up to par with these other Celestions they have used for decades.

          I like the over-rated cab deal also my cab is 380 watts RMS.

          • mtrash14 Iknowathingortwo
            mtrash14
            539 posts since
            Feb 18, 2009
            Currently Being Moderated
            Nov 20, 2009 3:28 PM (in response to RobbGnarly)
            Re: Whats up with the 4x12 sv cab?

            RobbGnarly wrote:

            But I dont think Bogner "designed" the sv to match with the V30.

            AFAIC for Bogner to 'sign off' on the SV (his name on the emblem) the speaker choice would haft to be agreed upon.  He had to know ahead of time what speaker the amp was going to ship with.  Otherwise how could he sign-off?  I couldn't!!!!!

             

            phil_m wrote:  He claimed it made him think of a vintage Fender amp.

            Tone deaf   That old foggie was tone deaf!!!!

            Thats the only words I can think of to explain that weird comment.

             

            Good luck

            M^T

            • RobbGnarly Just Startin'
              RobbGnarly
              57 posts since
              Oct 2, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Nov 20, 2009 3:58 PM (in response to mtrash14)
              Re: Whats up with the 4x12 sv cab?

              well Bogner does use V30s in the Uber cab, but there are better alternitives, or just make them with a few options say  1 w the V30 maybe 1 with Tonkers or Man o war. or even the Evs in 1 even though that would cost a kings ransome

            • phil_m Expert Line 6 User
              phil_m
              3,076 posts since
              Jan 25, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Nov 20, 2009 5:47 PM (in response to mtrash14)
              Re: Whats up with the 4x12 sv cab?

              Well, I can assure you the guy's not tone deaf.  I'm sure he's forgotten more about amp design than most techs know.  He knows his stuff.  He gets offered fully paid trips to NAMM like every year from several companies.  Many of them actually ask his opinion on prototypes before they're released.

  • phil_m Expert Line 6 User
    phil_m
    3,076 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 20, 2009 6:41 AM (in response to RobbGnarly)
    Re: Whats up with the 4x12 sv cab?

    Well, I think that Line 6 chose to go with the V30s in an effort to get a bit more street cred, and it seems to have worked in some ways.  I remember one time I was talking to the local amp tech here, who is also the guy who does Line 6 repairs in our area, about the original Spider Valve right before it was about to be released.  He had actually gotten to play through a prototype, and he said to me, "the best thing that amp has going for it is the speakers".  He claimed it made him think of a vintage Fender amp.  The guy's in his 50's and he's probably worked on more amps than most people have even seen.  Anyway, the V30s generally have good reputation.  Whether or not they deserve can be up for debate, but I suppose Line 6 wanted to go with a sure bet.

     

    I have an Eminence Red Fang in my Vox AC15, and I love it.  I can't say I've compared it directly to an Alnico Blue, but it's hard for me to imagine a speaker sounding much better with that amp than the way the Eminence does.  They do make some good speakers.

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