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13766 Views 21 Replies Latest reply: Oct 14, 2011 9:28 AM by kdguitar61 RSS
frac82 Just Startin'
frac82
67 posts since
Jun 17, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Jul 8, 2009 11:39 PM

Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

why the cabinet relative to Vetta1 HD has Custom Celestion speakers while the Vetta2 HD relative one has V30s? is there any difference in sound generation between the two heads to justify that? if yes, this difference can be overcome with the update? when using the V30s loaded cabinet you still allow CAB/A.I.R. emulation or bypass it to get the full potential out of the V30s?

i'm about buying a 2nd hand Vetta1 HD and i'd like to know if my 2x12" Celestion Classic Lead cabinet is "rubbish"...

thanx, bye

Tags: speaker, tone, vetta, 2.5, i, ii, cabinet, connections, vettaii
  • Line6Hugo Line 6
    Line6Hugo
    6,580 posts since
    Apr 8, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 9, 2009 10:49 AM (in response to frac82)
    Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

    frac82,

     

    All of the Vetta (I and II) cabinets used the same Custom 12" Flat Response Celestion speakers:

     

    http://line6.com/cabinets/vetta.html

     

    The Vintage 30s Celestions are not flat response and will color your tone with the sound of the Vintage 30s if you choose to put these speakers in a cabinet to use with your Vetta II.

     

    Regards,

     

    Lin6Hugo

  • ricksox UberGuru
    ricksox
    11,600 posts since
    Mar 28, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 9, 2009 1:41 PM (in response to frac82)
    Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

    The decision to put V30's in the newer Spider Valve cabs was collectively made by the design team at Line 6 along with Reinhold Bogner simply because they liked the way it sounded. It doesn't go any deeper than that.

     

     

    Line6Miller

    • frac82 Just Startin'
      frac82
      67 posts since
      Jun 17, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 9, 2009 3:13 PM (in response to ricksox)
      Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

      that's ok...

      it sounds strange that they put  "neutral" speakers on a combo but for heads suggest cabinets with very characteristic ones; in principle: if cab/a.i.r. emulation on Vetta combos sounds properly with Seventy80s why loading the heads cabinets with V30s? i'd deduce that either cab/a.i.r. with V30s sound better or it's unuseful with "quality" speakers... isn't that?  

      • Line6Hugo Line 6
        Line6Hugo
        6,580 posts since
        Apr 8, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jul 9, 2009 3:32 PM (in response to frac82)
        Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

        The Spider III Cabinet has the same Custom Celestions as the Vetta cabinet does.  As Miller mentioned, the Line 6 Spider Valve Cabinet is the only cab with V30s in it for the reason mentioned.  You don't have to use one cab over the other as long as it sounds good to you, but Line 6 does make a 4x12 cab with either set of speakers.

         

        Regards,

         

        Line6Hugo

        • frac82 Just Startin'
          frac82
          67 posts since
          Jun 17, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jul 9, 2009 11:34 PM (in response to Line6Hugo)
          Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

          sorry but i don't think so... as described in the link i posted above:

           

          412VS CABS

           

          Maximum Strength

          The 412VS closed-back cabs produce superior tone of the highest definition. Compatible with Spider Valve™ HD100, HD147® and Vetta™ II HD

          heads, these cabs can be used in mono or stereo, as a half stack, or in any combination up to a perfectly ear-splitting set of eight. For anything stronger you’ll need a prescription.

          • Four 12" Celestion® Vintage 30 speakers

          • Weight: 83 lbs.

          • Dimensions: 29" L x 30" H x 15" D

          • 120 watts max per side, stereo (8 ohms per side, stereo)

          • 240 watts max, mono (16 ohms or 4 ohms, mono)

           

          the only cab suggested for Vetta HD has V30s... if you say it's cheaper to produce just one cab model i agree with you, but it's impossible for me to believe that you can get the same output (from combo to head) with such different speakers. i just can't believe that 2 equal sound processors different only in power throw out the same sund through those kind of speakers!

  • Line6Hugo Line 6
    Line6Hugo
    6,580 posts since
    Apr 8, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 10, 2009 11:03 AM (in response to frac82)
    Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

    Before the Spider Valve Head was released, there was a another Line 6 4x12 cab other than the Spider III Cabinet for use with the Vettas and HD147 that carried the Custom Celestion speakers. That cabinet was discontinued after the V30 4x12 for the Spider Valve HD100 was introduced. Since then, there has been no official 4x12 Vetta cabinet. But that does not mean there are no cabinets to be used with the Vetta, as the V30 cabinet is perfectly compatible for use with the head as the webpage says, though the V30s will color the tone. Some people find this desireable, some don't. The Spider III cabinet is also perfectly compatible with the Vetta head along with any other cabs from another manufacturer with a matching load from the cab to the Vetta head.

     

    We here in support are here offer additional information to supplement the website or manuals with public info on our products. So, though it may not say on the website that you can use the Vetta HDs with a Spider III cabinet, I am here to tell you that, yes, you can use it with the Vetta HDs along with any other speaker cabinets with proper matching loads.

     

    Regards,

     

    Line6Hugo

    • frac82 Just Startin'
      frac82
      67 posts since
      Jun 17, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 10, 2009 12:42 PM (in response to Line6Hugo)
      Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

      i really don't wanna be polemic! you're all doing a great job for support and the forum is fantastic (once you understand the new layout! )!

      and i know general compatibility is just a matter of impedance...

      my question was another... i see the Vetta combo loaded with known neutral and colourless speakers (C12P or Seventy80); "that's right!" - i think - "cab emulation comes from the sound processor and must be changed as little as possible."

      then i see the Vetta HD with its V30s cabinet ; once again i think that's ok because something inside the head internal circuitry/firmware differs from the combo one and yields better with colourful vintage speakers... but once again i read the faqs and along the web that the two amps differ only for maximum output power!!! now i get a little confused...!?! do you know what i mean?

      thanx

      • ricksox UberGuru
        ricksox
        11,600 posts since
        Mar 28, 2006
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jul 10, 2009 2:37 PM (in response to frac82)
        Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

        then i see the Vetta HD with its V30s cabinet ; once again i think that's ok because something inside the head internal circuitry/firmware differs from the combo one and yields better with colourful vintage speakers...

        There is nothing inside the head, internal circuitry or otherwise that is different from the combo. We load the combos with custom flat respnse celestions. We discontinued the old 4x12 flat response cabs and replaced them with the V30's. Not sure why. It was a development decision.

         

         

        Line6Miller

        • frac82 Just Startin'
          frac82
          67 posts since
          Jun 17, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jul 11, 2009 4:05 AM (in response to ricksox)
          Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

          ok, at least as i supposed...

          so can we say that, regardles of personal taste:

           

          • Vetta combos produce a more true/faithful sound than heads with current cabinets?
          • to obtain the best from a Vetta HD (with current cabinets) is better to disable the CAB/A.I.R. option, letting the V30s work?
          • jvblack Iknowathingortwo
            jvblack
            190 posts since
            Oct 20, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jul 11, 2009 11:29 AM (in response to frac82)
            Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
            • I have a combo and i love the way it sounds.  Never used a head/cab setup with the vetta.

             

            • Why not get two small, full range PA cabs and run them in stereo instead of a 4X12 guitar cab.  It's probably easier to transport and carry, and should be plenty loud.  I've run my combo this way a couple of times with the internal speakers disabled, and it sounds AMAZING.  Being able to separate the left and right speakers really enhances the stereo aspect of the amp.  If i had to do it over again, I'd get the head and do that.  Maybe you could try it at rehearsal or take your head to a local music store and try it.  Don't buy a big, expensive 4X12 until you do.

             

            I'm pretty sure some of the users of the various pods do the two speaker thing with a power amp.  You might check out some of the pod forums here and in the archives.  There's no reason you couldn't do the same thing with a Vetta head using it's own internal power amp.

             

            The cab models are (in my opinion) a great resource.  You shouldn't have to give them up just because Line 6 doesn't make a cab.  There are speakers out there that can do the trick.

             

            Hope this helps,

            Joe

            • jvblack Iknowathingortwo
              jvblack
              190 posts since
              Oct 20, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Jul 11, 2009 11:26 AM (in response to jvblack)
              Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

              Forgot to mention:

               

              The first time i did it, i used two little PA cabs with 1 - 12" and a horn.  It sounded really good, but i don't remember the brand of cab.

               

              The second time i tried it, i used two Peavey PV215's.  They have 2 - 15" and a horn, and they sounded incredible.  However, they're about 80 pounds each and i wouldn't want to pack them around.  However, with the 15's the low end was nice and smooth without being boomy, and the highs were very smooth without being harsh.

               

              If i were shopping for this rig, i'd probably look for something with 1- 15 and a horn with a pretty flat response.

               

              Joe

              • frac82 Just Startin'
                frac82
                67 posts since
                Jun 17, 2007
                Currently Being Moderated
                Jul 12, 2009 11:33 PM (in response to jvblack)
                Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

                i'm not sure to understand well what you want to say, Joe...

                • jvblack Iknowathingortwo
                  jvblack
                  190 posts since
                  Oct 20, 2007
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Jul 13, 2009 3:44 AM (in response to frac82)
                  Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

                  My point is this:

                   

                  If a suitable full range, flat response 4X12 stereo speaker cabinet cannot be found, one could simply use two small full range PA type cabinets instead to take advantage of all the cabinet modeling features of the Vetta head.

                   

                  One could also use two of the Vetta 2X12 extension cabinets.  There seems to be a few retailers that still have them in stock.

                   

                  Joe

                  • frac82 Just Startin'
                    frac82
                    67 posts since
                    Jun 17, 2007
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Jul 13, 2009 4:00 AM (in response to jvblack)
                    Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

                    yeah, i totally agree with you: two 2x12" cabinets are always better than one 4x12"! both for the sound and flexibility/portability!

                    meanwhile i probably found the answer to my question at this link: http://www.vettaville.com/vetta1.htm .

                    citation from the website above:

                                 
                         

                    Vetta       A.I.R. II  Mic Options

                                                                                                                                                     
                    The             Vetta uses the new A.I.R. II for Direct Output processing. This is             nothing like the POD A.I.R. (which was more or less a volume control             for a few milliseconds of miked-room ambience).            

                    The A.I.R. II on the Vetta is             actually three "classic" virtual modeled microphones (see             pics) with two settings each.
                               
                                These "ONLY" affect the direct outputs and have no affect             on the signal that is going to the Vetta's speakers...anyone can             verify this themselves by playing thru the Vetta Combo and scrolling             thru the different virtual mics...you will not hear any tone change             coming out the Vetta's speakers...which would make sense, since you             typically mike-up a cabinet to record it, so obviously Line6 has             already included the virtual-mics for you., which is really cool!

                    		           

                    Shure             SM-57

                               

                    Shure             SM-57 (Off Axis)

                    		           

                               

                    Sennheiser             MD-421

                               

                    Sennheiser             MD-421 (Off Axis)

                    		           

                               

                    Neumann             U67

                               

                    Neumann             U67 (Off Axis)

                    		           

                       
  • Line6Andy Line 6
    Line6Andy
    4,345 posts since
    Jun 5, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2009 9:27 AM (in response to frac82)
    Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

    If you are interested in acquiring the Vetta "flat response" speakers, you can still order them directly through a Line 6 dealer.  Another option would be finding a dealer that has a new or used Vetta cabinet is stock so you can compare the sound yourself.

    • frac82 Just Startin'
      frac82
      67 posts since
      Jun 17, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 20, 2009 1:35 PM (in response to Line6Andy)
      Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

      If you are interested in acquiring the Vetta "flat response" speakers, you can still order them directly through a Line 6 dealer.  Another option would be finding a dealer that has a new or used Vetta cabinet is stock so you can compare the sound yourself

       

       

       

      thanx, but i didn't mean that... however i found the answer to y question on the chart bolded above

      bye, see you next

    • drunkuilled Just Startin'
      drunkuilled
      2 posts since
      Oct 11, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      May 13, 2010 6:56 AM (in response to Line6Andy)
      Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison

      Hi guys,

       

      I seem to have a problem with Vetta II.

      When I plug in the full-range PA-box to the amp-out it sounds really bad - lot's of distorted high frequences (from the horn). When I use the cheapest PA amp and go direct out from the vetta to the pa-amp and to the same speaker - it sounds awesome.

       

      How can this problem be solved? Obviously it is a problem of the poweramp inside my vetta - is it supposed to be working? Or is there something wrong with the vetta?

       

      Another problem or feature that I don't understand is why on the output page I have the selection between 2x12 and 4x12 when I already specified on my cabinet modelling that I use for example 1x15 thunder? I could probably understand that for usage of the external speakers but why does it affect the direct out??? Can i switch that off? For example POD X3 doesn't have this option on the direct out and to my ears it sound much better.

       

      Cheers,

      Sergey

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