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2269 Views 14 Replies Latest reply: Apr 26, 2009 7:51 PM by Saifa RSS
athlon Just Startin'
athlon
7 posts since
Mar 29, 2006
Currently Being Moderated

Mar 24, 2009 12:49 AM

Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

I recently sold my Spider III 75W, and upgraded to a Flextone III, and to be quite frank, i am bitterly dissapointed. Years ago i had a Flextone II and the insane on that was .. well .. insane!! 18 months ago, i got a Spider III and the insane on that kicked ***, and now i have a Flextone III, and the insane on that is like wet cardboard, it sounds awful, it doesnt cut the mustard. So whats up? how can i get that old sound of Satan wipeing his rusty sherrifs badge with fibreglass toilet paper? instead of the fuzzy, "toothless" mess that is insane, because its driving me insane.

 

and i am not playing garbage through it either, a collection of N4's and an Ibanez Jem 7V.

 

anyone?

 

thanks

  • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User
    Crusty_Old_Rocker
    3,096 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 24, 2009 12:59 AM (in response to athlon)
    Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

    Take one of your guitars to the music store and plug into a Spider Valve.

     

    I'll leave it at that.

     

    Cheers,

     

    Crusty

    • athlon Just Startin'
      athlon
      7 posts since
      Mar 29, 2006
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 24, 2009 1:04 AM (in response to Crusty_Old_Rocker)
      Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

      and that helps me to get a better sound from my stuff by doing .... what?

      • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User
        Crusty_Old_Rocker
        3,096 posts since
        Jan 24, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 24, 2009 1:25 AM (in response to athlon)
        Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

        Sorry, just a light hearted remark.  It was merely to point out that if you thought the Spider was good, you would be blown away by the Spider Valve (perhaps I should have spelled that out).

         

        Okay, I'll lose my smile and tell you this.  The two amps are very different beasts.  The Spider has most of the tweaking already built into it, with minimal ability to alter the effects.  The Flextone gives far greater control over the amp and effects.

         

        The areas that are going to affect the sound and puch of the amp are the speaker/cabinet/mic settings and the compression.  Of those the speaker/cab settings are going to make the greatest difference.

         

        Tone is very subjective and there would be no point in me suggesting what speaker/cab and amp combinations I like, you will need to find what delivers the tone you are looking for.

         

        You can even try switching off the speaker/cab simulation and hear how that sounds then adjust the bass, mid, treble and presence to suit.

         

        So, there you have it.  If you spend some time getting to know the amp and how to tweak it, you will find tones in there that the Spider could never deliver.

         

        Select the Insane amp model and start making your way through the various speaker/cab simulations and hear how it changes the tone of the amp.

         

        Cheers,

         

        Crusty

         

        P.S. I will remember to never attempt to have a joke with anyone on this forum.

        • athlon Just Startin'
          athlon
          7 posts since
          Mar 29, 2006
          Currently Being Moderated
          Mar 24, 2009 1:24 AM (in response to Crusty_Old_Rocker)
          Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

          thanks for your input, its most welcome  

           

          i have tried lots of speaker, amp combinations, and at the end of the day it just doesnt deliver enough gain. I am utterly dissaspointed in Line6, the Vetta was the same, the Variax was the same ... they seem to cater for people who like that rock sound of 30+ years ago, but thier gear just doesnt cut it for heavy rock.

           

          maybe i should get a Boss pedal to give this thing a kick in the pants.

          • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User
            Crusty_Old_Rocker
            3,096 posts since
            Jan 24, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Mar 24, 2009 1:26 AM (in response to athlon)
            Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

            Guys have been throwing the 'Bad Monkey' pedal in front of their Line 6 gear to give it some extra push without turning the tone to mush.  That one might be worth trying.

             

            Cheers,

             

            Crusty

            • athlon Just Startin'
              athlon
              7 posts since
              Mar 29, 2006
              Currently Being Moderated
              Mar 24, 2009 1:30 AM (in response to Crusty_Old_Rocker)
              Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

              Thanks again 

               

              the tone is there i can hear it, it just doesnt have the "meat and two veg" to back it up. i am thoroughly fed up, and its shocking that i need to buy another pedal to get this thing to pull its finger out of its ^&*$%

               

              after several years, it will be the last Line6 thing i ever buy

              • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User
                Crusty_Old_Rocker
                3,096 posts since
                Jan 24, 2007
                Currently Being Moderated
                Mar 24, 2009 1:34 AM (in response to athlon)
                Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

                Oh, just another thing.  Quite a few Flextone owners have modified their cabinets (like closed backs, different speakers).  Perhaps they have some more details for you.  I don't have a Flextone, but have the Vetta II.  I have heard the Vetta used for very heavy rock and it works well.

                 

                Where do you have the amp sitting?  Have you got it off the floor on a stand?  My Vetta combo sounds a hell of a lot better off the ground.

                 

                Cheers,

                 

                Crusty

                • athlon Just Startin'
                  athlon
                  7 posts since
                  Mar 29, 2006
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Mar 24, 2009 1:36 AM (in response to Crusty_Old_Rocker)
                  Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

                  anyone know if there is a firmware that can change this? or is it a common complaint?

                  • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User
                    Crusty_Old_Rocker
                    3,096 posts since
                    Jan 24, 2007
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Mar 24, 2009 1:41 AM (in response to athlon)
                    Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

                    There are only 2 firmware versions for the Flextone III - v 1.00 and 1.10.

                     

                    You can find them here: http://line6.com/software/index.html

                     

                    Cheers,

                     

                    Crusty

                  • geodavjenk Just Startin'
                    geodavjenk
                    64 posts since
                    Feb 5, 2007
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Mar 24, 2009 9:20 AM (in response to athlon)
                    Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

                    You haven't mentioned using a patch editor like L6 Edit or Tweak Wizard? When I bought my FlexII the tones that come pre-loaded didn't thrill me that much but I could see there was a lot of potential. There is only so much editing you can do from the amp itself. If you haven't yet purchased a midi-to-USB cable and started editing on your computer you're missing a bunch of settings that can really wake up the FlexIII. You have to invest a little time and get a feel for the amp and do some deep editing. I got some extremely heavy tones ala Disturbed with the FlexIII and also some clean chimey Fenderish country tones. I played with 3 different bands up until recently, alternative rock (Disturbed - Lamb of God - etc), classic rock (Ozzy - Who - Black Crows), and country (Brad Paisley - Trace Adkins - Montgomery Gentry). I've never had a problem getting the tone I want from the FlexIII although sometimes it was pretty time consuming getting there. Eventually I did change the speaker and added the closed back mod just to get more low mid thump.

                    • 0dannyboy Just Startin'
                      0dannyboy
                      76 posts since
                      Dec 5, 2006
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Mar 27, 2009 3:32 PM (in response to geodavjenk)
                      Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

                      I had a Flex 3 I did all the mods...speakers closed backs on both cabs fx loop eq a bad monkey out front...I liked it. This amp is Not catered to a metal audiance in my opinion but would rawk out pretty good after the mods without the speaker mod it woofs really bad if you give it a heavy bottom end. I replaced it with a spider valve.  The spider with the SV pre gets all the vintage clean I like for the band but for my inner vanhalen ...seriously it will melt your face of man It has seriuos lowend chug for a 1x12 ... try one...that was a good first sugjestion as it seems like the Flex3 may be a bad fit for this guy.  I owned a flex3 a pod xt a pocketpod a variax a kbwhatever....I agreee alot of line6 stuff "almost" does it for me so you might have to shop around to find the right model for your needs.

                • Spyfunker Just Startin'
                  Spyfunker
                  53 posts since
                  Feb 2, 2007
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Mar 24, 2009 9:21 AM (in response to Crusty_Old_Rocker)
                  Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

                  It sounds like Athlon is down that road of dusty travel, but Ill share anyway.

                   

                  I just replaced the crappy "custom celestions" in my F3XL with 16ohm Swamp Thangs($85 each). More balls than godzilla. However, I agree that you shouldnt have to do that to get what you want.  I think it simply comes down to preference.  And yes, I would agree that the Spider is built for out-of-the-box distortion, but Ive had no trouble getting all the gain I need (Alice In Chains, Metallica, Pantera), and in fact, Ive had to tweak it down a bit since installing the Swampys.  With the amount of gain(distortion) I get out of the F3, I cant imagine that the distortion in the Spiders is very usable on stage, always sounded thin to me.

                   

                  Sounds like the dude is ready to get rid of the F3, and testing out an SV would be a good idea, not just a joke.  Very few of L6's products suit me, but the F3 is perfect for what I use it for; covering 5 decades of rock, and doing the occasional anthem at ballparks - without a single pedal.

                   

                  ~S

          • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User
            Crusty_Old_Rocker
            3,096 posts since
            Jan 24, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Mar 24, 2009 1:29 AM (in response to athlon)
            Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

            You may have uncovered something in what you said.  I have always thought that the Spider amps were marketed to a younger demographic and the Flextone aimed more at the older market.  Who knows?  Maybe they made the Insane on the Spider more Insane than it is on the Flextone.

             

            Cheers,

             

            Crusty

  • Saifa Just Startin'
    Saifa
    1 posts since
    Apr 26, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2009 7:51 PM (in response to athlon)
    Re: Spider sounded better than my Flextone III

    Hey all,

     

    I gotta agree with the original poster here.  I actually don't think it's really a 'gain' issue though... more of a presence problem.  I have sitting just to my left both a Spider Jam and a Flex III.  The Flex is hooked up via MIDI for deep editing and I'm running Line6 Edit.  I'm trying to get the Flex to sound like the Spider Jam, and in general yes it's possible, but the problem is that the Flex just sounds like it's got a wet blanket draped over it.  I can match the tones virtually identically -- the Spider gives you the clues to the settings it's dialed to, and then I can deep-edit the Flex to match, and sure enough they sound "the same"... except that the Flex sounds like it's in the garage next door whereas the Spider is right up all in my face.  Dialling-out all the reverb and cranking the presence to 100% on the Flex III helps somewhat but still doesn't come close to matching the Spider's crispyness.

     

    I bought the Flex III for the programmable patches and the effects loop, because although the Spider Jam sounds superior, its looping controls are not usable in a live performance venue with a Shortboard.  Just try tap-dancing in and out of Jam Control mode to do patch changes between loops and you'll understand what I mean.  The Spider Jam needs *dedicated* loop controls *in addition* to patch change controls, not toggling between.  So... I figured I could match the tones from a Spider III into a Flex III using L6Edit and have what I need loop-wise by putting a Boomerang in the Flex's effects loop.  Great idea, right?  Except for the Flex III's sound.  It just sounds like the Flex III's trying to push thru fog while the Spider is right there in the room.  BTW, I have both combos sitting on same-height amp stands, so it's not a matter of the tone being drained by sitting on the floor.

     

    Anyone have any specific tone tweak suggestions to get some right-up-front sound out of the Flex III?  If not, anyone know if the loop-control MIDI commands for the Spider Jam can be issued separately from patch change commands by inlining another MIDI footcontroller?  (Or better yet by hacking a Longboard, but I digress...)

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