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captainbob Just Startin' 47 posts since
Jul 10, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Jan 12, 2010 3:13 PM

Lack of support for Linux

I want to clear up a few misconceptions about Linux.

I am a huge Linux fan.  I am running Ubuntu Studio 9.04 for recording.  Thats the good one.  And Debian Squeeze Testing for web surfing.

 

I keep stumbling across a lot of upset people who are angry there is little if no commercial support for Linux.  I came across a closed thread on the Line 6 site that some people were raving about how Line 6 does not support Linux.

 

Heres why.

 

Its the licensing.  Linux is licensed to the general public.  YOU own Linux, not Line 6.  That license states that Linux cannot be bought or sold.  How Red Hat does it,  I am not sure, but you cannot charge for Linux code.  Linux is free, and shall always remain free.  Ever wonder why you can download a whole Linux desktop and all the apps for free?  Its the licensing.  Pretty nice huh?

 

Well, thats also a 2 edged sword.  Because Linux is free, for profit companies such as Line 6, cannot write programs in Linux code and charge money for them.  Line 6 would be required by law to give away all their Linux software for free.  That would be real nice, but Line 6 and most other companies are not in business to give away their products.  They have bills to pay, salaries to meet, ect. They are not charities.

 

Understand?

 

Linux has Windows emulators such as WINE that will run some Windows apps, but I don't believe these will run Line 6 SOFTWARE.  The software will install, but won't function.  Its up to the Linux folks to make their emulator work well enough to run programs written for Windows, not the other way around.

 

But not all is lost.

 

I have not tested this myself, with Line 6 products, as I cannot use Line 6 anymore since upgrading to Windows 7, but thats a whole other story, and the blame for that one DOES fall directly on Line 6 for dropping the ball, BUT, there is a great sound card, the M-Audio Delta 44.  It costs around $130.00.  I have one.  Its got 4, 1/4 inch inputs and 4,  1/4 outputs.  That card does work with Ubuntu Studio 9.0.  Don't bother with 9.10 or any other version of Ubuntu Studio, because I have tested several, and they are bug ridden,  unworkable pieces of crap.  But version 9.04 works well.

 

The Delta card is supported by Linux.  I don't see why it would not be possible to run say a Tone Port UX8 into a mixer and run the mixer out into the Delta input.  I believe that would make the Line 6 amp model sound available to Linux DAWs such as Ardour. Perhaps adaptors would be needed.

 

Stop wining, get creative.  You shouldn't be recording on an inherently unstable system such as Windows anyway, unless you are into losing your project, or enjoy looking at Blue Screens.  I know, due to crashes, I lost many Line 6 projects on Windows XP.

 

For $300.00 bucks I built a whole home recording studio, complete with the low latency real time kernel Ubuntu offers.  $700.00 if you include the guitar and computer. It sounds awesome.

 

Do your research, and stop complaining.

  • pbear5 Just Startin' 472 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Jan 12, 2010 3:54 PM (in response to captainbob)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    you could surely run a TonePort into a Linux supported interface--no mixer required--but you would need a windows or mac computer to run the TonePort.  you would be better off with a POD or other standalone solution if you just want to run one box with Linux.

     

    personally i feel the reason for lack of Linux drivers/software is that this would open up another whole can of support worms for each company to deal with.  it would really be a nightmare because there are so many different flavors of Linux and each one of those is open to being changed at any time--if i understand the whole open-source thing.  if they did offer support for Ubunto then the Red Hat and Fedora people would be up in arms. 

     

    when i hear people talking about how stable a Linux system is i have to ask--but what are you doing with it?  a Windows Vista system is perfectly stable if you don't install any software or hardware.  "normal" applications like Office, Explorer, Mail don't crash regularly.  if you are very selective with what you install on any system they can mostly be considered stable--unless there is a bug or a hardware issue and then you need someone who will develop a solution.  my iMac/Tiger is extremely stable.  i never shut it down or restart it unless there is some update or i install new software.  i very rarely experience any application crashes and even more rarely have to perform a hard shut-down--probably three times in two years--and each instance was due to some free plugin that i installed into Tracktion for a trial run.  at work i run an XP 32-bit machine and it crashes more often but i run at least 10 applications including SolidWorks 3-d modeling software at any given time--usually these are traced back to RAM--i'm maxed out on XP 32-bit with 4 gig physical--3.2(?) recognized.  my point is that, if Linux users had access to all of the hardware and software that a Mac or Windows user has, chances are they would see a reduction in stability so the only advantage they would really have is that it was free.

  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Jan 12, 2010 4:02 PM (in response to captainbob)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    captainbob wrote:

     

    Because Linux is free, for profit companies such as Line 6, cannot write programs in Linux code and charge money for them.  Line 6 would be required by law to give away all their Linux software for free.

     

    That's complete hogwash.  Plenty of companies write software for Linux and sell it.  It just happens that there are a lot of freeware applications out there that are licensed openly.

     

    And Line6 does not sell its drivers.

     

    Red Hat, by the way, doesn't sell the software.  It sells support.

     

    Ooooo!!!! Look!  Soldier of Fortune game for Linux:  $119  A far cry from free.

     

    http://www.amazon.com/Soldier-Fortune-Linux-Pc/dp/B00004TBBY

  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Jan 12, 2010 4:00 PM (in response to captainbob)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    captainbob wrote:


    You shouldn't be recording on an inherently unstable system such as Windows anyway, unless you are into losing your project, or enjoy looking at Blue Screens.  I know, due to crashes, I lost many Line 6 projects on Windows XP.

     

    I've never experienced a crash while recording on XP, never lost a project, and never saw a blue screen.  Ever.

     

    Hey, I'm glad for you that you got your system doing what you want it to do.  That's very cool, and even cooler to have such a low cost recording setup.

  • mikey1 Just Startin' 524 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Jan 12, 2010 4:36 PM (in response to Karl_Houseknecht)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    Same here. 25 Cd's produced using XP. Never a blue screen. Not even one. I have lost a track or two but it was my fault. And I did have a hard drive failure but that was a bad drive and I was able to recover everything. XP is aces in my book. I've got everything working in my studio and I aint changing nothing. I tried the 64bit version of Windows 7 to try and take advantage of the extra ram and I got some stuff working but there was no noticable increase in speed. And I was BSOD'in all over the place.

     

    I used Linux when I worked in IT at OCB. It crashed all the time.

  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jan 12, 2010 4:50 PM (in response to mikey1)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    Mikey,

     

    As you should well know, all the big studios use Linux as the platform for their DAW software.  Right?

     

    Wrong.  ProTools doesn't run on Linux.

  • nuser101 Just Startin' 178 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Jan 12, 2010 6:06 PM (in response to Karl_Houseknecht)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    As a scientist with quite a few clients, I run linux without issue at work, and have been doing so for about 3 years.  My clients are surprised when they find out about it (I am diligent about file conversion to MS file types when the need arises. I haven't mistakenly sent out a .odt, yet). It works, and works very well for that purpose, and I don't have to worry about the cumbersome MS or MAC kaching quotient. At home, my kids have one Mac box (a MacBook Pro), and a very old XP/Linux dual boot machine, home built in 2002. They use Linux, by their own choice, most of the time, although the elder one is becoming a Mac fanatic because of the high school he attends. Different strokes...

     

    That said, I would not expect Line 6 or Boss, or any other company, to write for Linux for the simple reason that the market is not there, nor does it seem to be growing at the rate that would cause Mac or MS to worry about it.  Current estimates have it at 1.5 - 2.5% (the upper estimate is very generous in its assumptions) of the desktop market share.

     

    Very few, if any, companies in the music business could profit from writing and maintaining code for such a small market share.

  • phil_m Expert Line 6 User 4,243 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Jan 12, 2010 6:40 PM (in response to captainbob)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm44/loud7600/pcmaclinux.jpg

  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Jan 13, 2010 4:59 AM (in response to captainbob)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    captainbob wrote:

     

    Ok, a clarification, you are right, you can charge money for Linux, so long as you include the source code.  The source code must always remain free.

    How long would a company remain profitable selling its software, if they did this?

     

    No, you can't charge money for Linux.  However, you CAN charge for support and maintenance contracts for Linux.  That's what the RedHat folks do.

     

    You can also charge any money you want for software that runs on Linux and you do NOT have to give out the source code.

  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Jan 13, 2010 6:24 AM (in response to captainbob)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    captainbob wrote:

    Including open source code with your software product is like allowing the students to keep a copy of the test answers while they take the test. Their amp models would be made available for free and LEGAL download to everyone

     

    Except that Line6 wouldn't have to include the source code for their product.  You can, in fact, distribute proprietary code that runs on the Linux platform without making it open source.

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