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4813 Views 37 Replies Latest reply: Feb 26, 2013 6:07 PM by jcosta_sr RSS
jdolby Just Startin' 80 posts since
Jan 24, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Nov 16, 2010 7:30 PM

Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

I've had my 500 for a couple of weeks and have only recently started to explore it.

 

I plugged my home-made 212 cabinet (8 ohms) with Eminence Red Coats into the back of my AR112-50, turned off the Atomic's internal speaker and set the HD500 output mode to Combo PWRAMP.  I get KILLER tones from this rig if I use the PRE models and turn off the cab sims.  In fact, even my wife commented how great it sounded.  I was never able to get sounds this rich from the X3 Pro - and so easily to boot.

 

I'm going to pull the amp out of the Atomic and build a little box for it - similar to the new Atomic Mono Block.  I'm selling my X3 Pro and FBV and the funds from that will go towards a new 412 cabinet from Avatar, me thinks.

 

LOVING the HD500!

rig.jpg

  • jdalf59 Just Startin' 75 posts since
    Feb 7, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2010 6:39 PM (in response to jdolby)
    Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

    Thats sweet, is your diy cab open back or closed?

     

    I'm thinking about doing something similiar with an atomic 18 watt i have. The 18 watter has an extra output from the transformer that works, I have an eminence wizard and a celestion v30 I'm going to put in a cab and put the power amp assembly in a head.

    • stumpsout Just Startin' 895 posts since
      Jan 28, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Nov 16, 2010 8:09 PM (in response to jdalf59)
      Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

      I have an  Atomic 18 watt amp...why is it that it doesn't sound as good as your setup here? Is it that the speaker or the cabinet in the Atomic is not as good?

       

      I played the HD 500 with my Traynor 50 watt just plugged into the FX loop to use the poweramp only..and it sounded killer with the HD500 set to poweramp combo.

       

      But the Atomic was not nearly as good in this mode. Studio/Direct was the best for Atomic, but still not as good as the other Traynor setup I mentioned.

          • cGil Just Startin' 393 posts since
            Jun 5, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Nov 16, 2010 9:02 PM (in response to jdolby)
            Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

            fwiw, I've found EV12L's to be superb with modelers, and especially with this new HD500.  I run in studio mode through a Peavey Classic 50/50, and the cab models are very satisfyingly accurate to my ears.    And I have a room full of great speakers to compare it to including Heritage G12M, Heritage G12H30, Alnico Blue, Vintage 30's, and Jensen P10r's, among others.

             

            Gil...

        • ozbadman Gear Head 1,474 posts since
          Apr 17, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Nov 16, 2010 8:59 PM (in response to jdolby)
          Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

          Actually, Atomic amps (and by that I mean the speakers that come with atomic amps) are designed to be FRFR (they have tweeters). Combo amps are not FRFR. So, to compensate, when you select "ComboAmp" output on the HD500, it boosts the higher end. If you do that into a FRFR system, you're going to end up with a lot of treble. So, for FRFR systems like Atomics, the "correct" output mode setting is Direct.

           

          David.

        • stumpsout Just Startin' 895 posts since
          Jan 28, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Nov 17, 2010 12:23 AM (in response to jdolby)
          Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

          jdolby wrote:

           

          stumpsout,

           

          I think, in your case, it has to be the modeling speaker in the Atomic.  My 112-50 sounds a little harsh on its own in the Combo PWRAMP mode, too.

           

          Does the 18 watt Atomic allow you to plug another speaker into it while disabling its internal speaker?  I urge you to try it, if so.  Make sure your speaker impedance matches the Atomic's output.

           

          Another trick would be to throw a Vintage 30 into your Atomic.  I did this to my 112-50 and was using it as a powered extension cab connected to the effects send of my Traynor YCS-50.  I put the original speaker back in only because I had thoughts about selling the Atomic at some point.

           

          Hey, there's a thought!  I might just put the Vintage 30 back in the Atomic!

           

           

          Good stuff, thanks.

           

          There is no disabling the internal speaker while plugging in an external speaker, but I do have a Vintage 30 speaker sitting here to try swapping.

           

          Okay, here comes the noobular side of me..

           

          The Atomic speaker says 8 Ohms 150 watts

           

          The Celestion Vintage 30 says 8 Ohms and has a 50 on it..it's from a 50 watt amp.

           

          Is that going to likely be fine...or maybe not?

          • jdalf59 Just Startin' 75 posts since
            Feb 7, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Nov 17, 2010 4:13 AM (in response to stumpsout)
            Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

            a V30 will be fine in the 18 watter, and will probably be louder than the stock speaker

             

            If you are handy with speaker wire, switches and speaker jacks, you could modify the atomic for an external speaker out

             

            On the left side of the inner docking station area is a silver box with a 4 pin connector. only 2 pins have wires coming out  (red and black)and they go to your speaker. The 2 unused pins will power a speaker, I've been doing it for awhile. I can use the atomic cab and an external 8 ohm speaker together

             

            I aksed on the fractal website and emailed support  if this would work, but never got an answer, so did it anyways

             

            I'm planning on taking the power amp out and building a head for it , i think it might play well with the HD when I get it

             

            I'm just a house hack, Gil is the Amp Expert here

            • cGil Just Startin' 393 posts since
              Jun 5, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Nov 17, 2010 3:51 PM (in response to jdalf59)
              Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

              Expert?  Hardly.  Crispy rust bucket's more like it.  I was lucky to find the shoulders-of-giants to peek over to get me stumbling back into the game is all.  But adding a jack that'll disconnect the internal speaker when an external cab is plugged in, is relatively easy. 

               

              Use a switched-mono 1/4" phone jack.  First, connect the OT's output ground wire to the jack ground lug, and extend that (add wire) to connect it to the speaker's ground lug.  

               

              Run the OT's output hot wire (the red one) to the tip lug of the jack.  Run a new wire from the switch lug (the tip's switched lug if using a Cliff Jack, or just THE switch lug if using a Switchcraft jack) to the speaker's hot connector.   This will connect the internal speaker to the amp through the jack when nothing is plugged in, so be sure to keep that jack clean and well maintained for best tone.  DeOxit D or G-series spray (formerly ProGold) is excellent for this job) 

               

              Simply swapping out the speaker should be a straightforward affair if quick connects are used on the OT wires.   If so, try to spread the quick connect crip apart so it'll slide off the speaker lugs easily.  Crimp them gently with pliers before reinstalling and make sure there's a snug fit.    Personally, in terms of 12" drivers anyway, I prefer a single 20w greenback with my 18watt Marshall clone, but I moved that to a closed back cab cuz it sounded so much better in there.   I've also run a 15watt Alnico Blue.  Currently I run a G12H-30w bass cone in that combo now.  It's louder.  None has shown any sign of danger toward burning up the voice coil, and they've all survived it just fine.   That Vintage 30 is rated for 60 watt, and will have no trouble with anything an 18watter can throw at it. 

               

              Gil...

          • jeffwatt Just Startin' 31 posts since
            Jan 29, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Nov 17, 2010 11:03 AM (in response to stumpsout)
            Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

            Hey jdolby and stumpsout,

             

            I also have an Atomic 18 watter, and have been falling a bit out of love with it lately when pairing it with the HD500 because of the lack of high frequency reproduction (for some reason it wasn't as much an issue for me with the X3). However, I find this idea of changing out the speaker very intriguing!

             

            I'm *very* interested in hearing about any sonic improvement you might notice after switching out the stock speaker for the Celestion Vintage 30, and if you prefer it with Studio or Combo mode. Have you tried it yet?

             

            Alternatively, might there be a way to add a tweeter to the 112-18? Gil?

  • cGil Just Startin' 393 posts since
    Jun 5, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2010 6:46 PM (in response to jdolby)
    Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

    4 thumbs on that cab.  Sweet!

     

    Gil...

  • mr_slugworth Just Startin' 429 posts since
    Oct 12, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2010 7:48 PM (in response to jdolby)
    Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

    jdolby wrote:


    ...
    In fact, even my wife commented how great it sounded.
    ...

     

    If your wife is anything like mine, this is easily the most impressive part of your post. 

  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 17, 2010 5:08 AM (in response to jdolby)
    Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

    jdolby wrote:

     

    I'm going to pull the amp out of the Atomic and build a little box for it - similar to the new Atomic Mono Block.  I'm selling my X3 Pro and FBV and the funds from that will go towards a new 412 cabinet from Avatar, me thinks.

     

    All of that sounds like an excellent plan.  Are you going for the G412 Vintage?  I have one with Hellatone 60's and T75's in it, ala Uberkab.  It is divine.

      • johandovelius Just Startin' 9 posts since
        Aug 9, 2006
        Currently Being Moderated
        Nov 17, 2010 11:12 AM (in response to jdolby)
        Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

        Back to the Atomic amps!

         

        I have two Atomics for stereo – one 112 and one 212. I have just bought the HD500 and are trying to find out about the best combinations:

        - Output: Direct or Combo front or Combo Power Amp (yes, it is a power amp)?

        - Pre or not pre amp models?

         

        I have tried different combinations, and different amps sound good in some combinations, others in other combinations. I find it difficult to find the overall best configuration here.

         

        I think I go for Direct output and no pre amp models as my general principle, as it gives me most options to tweek the sounds. And also, I guess most of the customtone patches you guys upload will use no pre amp.

         

        But I will happily take advice here. Maybe I miss something in my lonesome tweeking

         

        Ivve

        • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
          Jan 25, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Nov 17, 2010 11:52 AM (in response to johandovelius)
          Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

          johandovelius wrote:

          I have tried different combinations, and different amps sound good in some combinations, others in other combinations. I find it difficult to find the overall best configuration here.

           

          Maybe I miss something in my lonesome tweeking

           

          I don't think you're missing anything.  This is a problem with the original Atomic Reactors that aren't built for FR (i.e. - don't have a tweeter).  The cab/speaker design is somewhere in between full range and guitar cab.  And because of that, any output mode you try is going to leave you wanting.  Using the HD with just the preamps and no speaker simulation won't sound quite right because the Atomic cab isn't a traditional guitar cab.  And using the HD with full models and cab simulations won't sound quite right because it isn't quite full range and it will sound like a blanket over the speakers.

           

          Do you find it at all telling that Atomic no longer manufactures the original Reactor series, instead concentrating on the Reactor FR line?  They did that because the Fractal users wanted a full range setup that showed off the cab models and more pristine effects of the Axe-Fx.

          • johandovelius Just Startin' 9 posts since
            Aug 9, 2006

            Thanks, Karl!

             

            I understand what you mean. I experience either to much bass or a bit too bright sound. If I choose the Combo Front or Power Amp output mode, I easily get a terrible treble digital distortion sound when using overdrive on some amp models. I have tried another hour now, and will definitely go for the Direct output, meaning I have to adjust the bass with an eq on some amp models.

             

            But still, hey, I can hear the potential. It is wonderful to play

      • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
        Jan 25, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Nov 17, 2010 12:04 PM (in response to jdolby)
        Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

        jdolby wrote:

        I'm probably more likely to buy the G412 Traditional with Hellatone 60's and T75's.

         

        You like the looks of the traditional cab more?  Personal preference, I guess.   I like the look of the Vintage just because it looks like a Bogner cab.

         

        I still need to sell my X3 Pro and FBV before my cabinet purchase can happen, though.  Any ideas what $$$ I should ask them for?  They're both spotless.

         

        I'm seeing used X3 Pros on eBay going for $400 max.  Factory sealed ones are going for about $500.  FBV or FBVSB?  The shortys are going for around $100.

  • artar Just Startin' 12 posts since
    Mar 22, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 19, 2013 2:14 AM (in response to jdolby)
    Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

    Hi,

     

    I have the HD500 + 2 Atomic 112 50.

     

    I changed the original speaker for a Celesion Greenback Heritage G12M.

     

    And WOW ! Now i'm verry happy with the SOUND !   ( On the HD500 use only the Preamp Models  and NO Cabinets )

     

     

    Art...

  • Jeremy_Shirland Just Startin' 15 posts since
    Mar 20, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 25, 2013 8:56 PM (in response to jdolby)
    Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

    I have Pod HD bean' and 2 Atomic 112-50s. I like the Stack mode. It compensates for the closed back. I've never had issue with the Atomic speakers, other than the fact that all high wattage speakers need to be pushed to sound good:)

  • jcosta_sr Just Startin' 120 posts since
    Jun 11, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 26, 2013 6:07 PM (in response to jdolby)
    Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!

    I've been thinking about changing speakers on my 112-50 and going FR.  Has anyone looked at the Eminance Beta 12-CX?  If you add the coaxial tweeter and cross over you get a frequency response of 66 hz to 20k.  It looks like there will be no problem with power handling, 250 watts RMS.  I just wonder how much frequency response the Atomic amp will have?  My guess is that it will be better than the stock 112-50 but not FR.  Any thoughts.

     

    Message was edited by: John Costa - spelling :-)

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