Mar 22, 2011 12:46 PM
Variax/HD500 + Roland GR55/GK33
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I know this subject has been touched on in the GR55 thread here but I thought that it could use it's own thread here so we can get more specific...
Here's my current fantasy...
Curently I own a Variax JTV69 and an HD500 and I love it...
I've been thinking of installing a GK33 pickup and running it into a GR55 to get some better synth sounds (and piano, organ, sax and... well you probably know!)
This would be the ultimate sonic set-up as you could choose one or the other plus combine the two (giving you a total of 6 tones that could be combined!)
I know some people have done this or something similar and I would love for any of you to share your opinions/thoughts on this type of setup...
NOW... the problem I am having trouble contemplating is: how would I get these two machine/signals down to one stereo signal that I could run into my Boss RC-50 loopstation??
Is the "Aux in" on the HD500 stereo? If so, I suppose I could just run the GR55 into that input and bypass and amps/effects and then run the signal out of the HD500 like usual... OR I may be able to come out of the GR55 (with two 1/4 outs) and go into the MP3 in of the HD500 (with one 1/8 in)???
Anyone have any experience or ideas to share??
Am I crazy for thinking this??
musicalstew wrote:
I know this subject has been touched on in the GR55 thread here but I thought that it could use it's own thread here so we can get more specific...
Here's my current fantasy...
Curently I own a Variax JTV69 and an HD500 and I love it...
I've been thinking of installing a GK33 pickup and running it into a GR55 to get some better synth sounds (and piano, organ, sax and... well you probably know!)
This would be the ultimate sonic set-up as you could choose one or the other plus combine the two (giving you a total of 6 tones that could be combined!)
I know some people have done this or something similar and I would love for any of you to share your opinions/thoughts on this type of setup...
NOW... the problem I am having trouble contemplating is: how would I get these two machine/signals down to one stereo signal that I could run into my Boss RC-50 loopstation??
Is the "Aux in" on the HD500 stereo? If so, I suppose I could just run the GR55 into that input and bypass and amps/effects and then run the signal out of the HD500 like usual... OR I may be able to come out of the GR55 (with two 1/4 outs) and go into the MP3 in of the HD500 (with one 1/8 in)???
Anyone have any experience or ideas to share??
Am I crazy for thinking this??
Pretty easy, just use a small mixer to take the inputs and sent the mixer output to PA!
Yeh, I figured I could do it with a mixer but I'm trying to figure out a way to do it so I don't have to haul around yet another piece of gear...
I wonder if the 1/4 Aux input on the HD500 is stereo...??
Wondering if I could run the GR55 into the 1/4 aux on the HD500 (or is it's NOT in stereo maybe the 1/8 inch MP3 input) and that would allow me to have both signals from the GR AND the HD500 coming from the HD500 outputs...
Anyone tried this??
I HAVE done this, but only using mono (the left/mono output of my GR-55 into the Guitar In jack on the HD500). It works fine that way, but now I wonder if I'm missing out on anything by not using the stereo outs. I think I have a splitter cable to test this but unfortunately my GR-55 is 35 miles away at the practice studio, and I won't be able to get there until Saturday. If no one else chimes in by then, I can let you know what I find out on Sunday (3/27).
BTW, you might be able to find out if the Aux input on the HD500 is stereo by reading the manual, available elsewhere on this site in PDF format. I'll try that tonight.
Like you, I would like to combine my Line 6 (JTV 59/HD500/Vetta II) gear with my Roland (GR-55/VG-99/FC300 controller) gear, but it's too damn much to haul around and way too much to put on any of the stages I'll be playing on! But I love every piece of this and don't want to give any of it up . . . it's a quandary wrapped in a dilemma . . . or something like that. I'm in two cover bands now and I'm leaning towards using all Line 6 stuff in the "softer" band (Classic Rock like Styx, Kansas and Journey, plus Kings of Leon, etc.) because I can get the great JTV acoustic sounds that way, but using the Roland gear for my heavier band (Zeppelin, Whitesnake, Nickelback, etc.) where I use mostly LP/Marshall/MESA tones and can use the VF-99's D-Beam to dive bomb. But I need the GR-55 in BOTH bands, so I still have to figure this out . . . does anybody make a 3-level pedalboard? ![]()
Its a great combination to use! I used such a setup at a gig last week. In a pinch you can even just use the gr55's amp/effects with the JTV69. If you spend time tweaking the amp odels they arent bad, and certainly good enough to use as a backup in case your HD500 goes down.
Im using the gr55 with a JTV69/pod HD500 combo. Im using a looper as well, but I dont need to loop both sources. My amp is a traynor k4 which has several different stereo inputs so I just mix levels on the amp and go.
Hey Jason, I found your vid last night; I meant to leave a comment. Excellent, really enjoyed the piece. Can't wait to hear more clips.
Hi,
I'm currently using that setup. I have a Pod HD 500 and a GR-55 and a GK pickup installed on a variax 600 and an RMC piezo/midi system on a Carvin 7 strings and honestly that combination is a dream come true... that GR-55 is really a beast, but it doesn't really replace the pod or the variax, I would say it's probably it's perfect companion...
If you get it, make sure to download the GR Floorboard controller software being developed in sourceforge because that thing is really crazy to edit using the hardware menu especially if you want to do dual amp patches using both units ![]()
Here is my setup:
- Midi out of Pod HD to Midi In Gr-55 --> Allow to assign GR-55 patch changes to 1-8 switch from inside pod patches, I put the GR-55 in midi channel 2, so changing pod main patches or expression pedal isn't messing around with it
- 1/4 stereo out of GR-55 to Pod HD FX Loop stereo Return --> In each patch I want to use the GR-55 I then insert an FX Loop FX stomp at 50% somewhere in the effect chain, so that way I can put the same effect used on the pod sound also on the GR sound, but if you don't you can just put it at the end of the chain.
The reason why I'm using the FX Loop Return and not the MP3 input is because the MP3 input is not send to the DT50 when using the L6Link, but if you are not using that amp with that connection you could use the MP3 input, however if you do you won't have any control on how both sounds are blending together and won't be able to apply pod effect on the GR-55 sound.
Also, one aspect I didn't suspect to be using when I got the GR-55 is the guitar magnetic pickup going in the 13 pin cable input that it can pocess through it's amp simulation and effects, but I'm using it all the time to create dual amp setup with the pod and honestly I'm getting insane results. I don't know why, but the results are a lot better than trying to do dual amp setup directly on the pod...
Hope it helps...
Wow!
Great replies thanks everyone!!
Awesome video!
You've all been very helpful... I'm totally going to go for it now!
Especially thanks a bunch francisb, that is pretty much exactly how I want to do it!
I didn't even think about just running the GR into the effects loop... that would allow a stereo signal PLUS the option to add HD effects on top of the GR!!
That is the ULTIMATE sonic setup!!
Now also, with a midi cable are you telling me that I could tell the GR to switch to a certain patch every time I switched the HD to a certain patch??
Sick... friggin' sick...
Glad to help!!
That setup is indeed quite cool, I found also effects like pitch shifting, univide, ... to be better on the GR-55, so blending those with the pod original sound is nice too..
Well, regarding midi, the pod is quite retarded in what it can do when changing patches, what I mean is that it can only send the same patch number changes out to the next device, so for what you want you will need to actually match the GR-55 patch number to the corresponding patch number in the pod. I found that to be insane to maintain. However, where the pod is quite powerful is assigning program changes, CC or Note On to any Footswitch after the patch is loaded up, it is a 2 steps process, but it also means that for a giving pod patch you could assign up to 8 GR-55 patch changes or do other crazy things... This is why I said that I assigned the GR-55 to midi channel 2, so I don't want the pod to mess around with my GR-55 patches when I do patch changes on the pod, but then assign by pod patch what I want my footswitch to control on the GR-55.
Maybe at some point Line 6 will implement the same midi controls by footswitch up to the main patch and then we will have full flexibility...
Wow, francisb . . . thanks for sharing your setup! I can't wait to try this over the weekend!
One question: can you explain in more detail how you're doing this part?:
the guitar magnetic pickup going in the 13 pin cable input that it can pocess through it's amp simulation and effects, but I'm using it all the time to create dual amp setup with the pod and honestly I'm getting insane results.
Maybe you could give an example of one of your dual-amp setups -- which amps, which guitar models or pickups, and how you make that happen (I haven't tried dual-amps with the HD500 yet). And I'm thinking that the "magnetic pickup" could just as easily be your Variax model going into the GK3's 1/4" input and out through the 13-pin cable to the GR55. Is that correct?
I have an extra GK3 just waiting to be installed on my JTV 59 . . . sounds like I may soon reach Guitar Nirvana . . .
Thanks again!!!
Yes, that is correct. The GK-3 pickup as a 1/4 inch input connection and if you connect your guitar output to it you can then use it on the GR-55 through the 13 pin cable with it's amp sim and effect chain. That also means that if you aren't scared of cable running in all direction you could even send back the send ouput of the pod and add GR-55 effect on top of pod amp sim sound by example ![]()
The beauty of the Variax is that you also have the VDI connection that you can feed the pod with and with the JTV that means, I believe, that you could use variax sound on one and magnetic on the other or both the same. I only have a 600, so it is the same variax sound on both.
About patch example, well that could be everything you can imagine really....
- One patch I'm using a lot these days is with my Carvin 7 strings, on the pod I have a Sreamer feeding a Fireball with Tube Comp and Flat Analog chorus and on the GR-55 I have a 5150 and I then mix both right at the end of the pod effect chain with the FX Loop. On that setup I'm using no Synth or modelled guitar on the GR-55.
- Another one I'm using a lot that is quite lush is the following: Carvin 7 strings Piezo sound or Variax acoustic, on pod, various EQ, Comp fed into Analog Chorus and Verb and on the GR-55, on Synth, Rhodes and a Pad(just to give a bed), Guitar modeling Acoustic 12 strings and Analog pickup(so piezo) into a JC-120, for FX I add Chorus and Verb to it. In this patch I put the FX Loop before the pod Reverb, so everything is fudging into it. This obvioulsy do not works for chords strumming, but you could spend hours just playing any 2 notes sequences... and they all sound stunning... I tried them all![]()
The possibilites are just freaking endless....
I'm inept when it comes to MIDI programming between 2 units...anyway you can create a YouTube tutorial to descrive how you are handling HD500/GR55 switching? I almost feel like I need someone to break it down using hand-puppets...
any hopes you can post a video of how you've synced your gr55 to change using the POD as a midi controller? I'm doing something wrong, because i've had no such luck.
I'm not very internet and don't have really an easy of doing a video, but can surely walk you through...
What do you want to do, have the patch change on the GR-55 following pod patch changes or assign GR-55 patch to a Pod patch footswitch assignment?
By the way I am doing the later because the first case require that both unit have the corresponding patches at the same location which isn't really convenient.
gr55 to pod patch footswitch assignment would be great if its the easier to use. thanks!
First you need to put your GR-55 on any other midi port than 1, so it doesn't get triggered by pod patch changes. To do that go in the GR-55 System menu, under MIDI/USB and change Patch number to something else(I put mine on channel 2). Connect a midi cable from POD HD Midi output to GR-55 Midi Input.
After that all is done directly in Pod HD Edit under the Controllers section:
1- Free up an FS switch by making sure it isn't assign to anything else on your patch
2- In the the Midi Assign section select the FOOTSWITCH number you want to use
3- Under MIDI CHANNEL set the number you set the GR-55 to
4- Under MESSAGE set Prog Change
5- Under PROGRAM # set the patch number corresponding to the GR-55 bank and patch you want to trigger(Here you will need to do some math because 000 is equal to USER 01-01, 001 to USER 01-02 and so on.... so if your patch is like USER 05-01 that would be equal to 012.
Also it doesn't seem to work really well with other bank than USER and to have it to work with USER you need to have it selected on the GR-55.
Let me know if you still have problem.
sweet! got it switching. thanx! any tips or tricks for set-ups using the POD to mute or do anything else like pitch bend, etc?
You mean controlling effects on the GR-55 from the pod?
No I haven't mess around with it myself, but I'm sure it's possible. Personnaly, I prefer doing it on the GR-55 itself where you can assign the pedals and CTRL FS to do different operation by patch.
Thanks for the instructions, francisb, but I'm not quite there . . . I did everything you said and my FS1 switch IS switching the GR-55 to the patch I want (very cool), but I'm not getting any sound. I'm using a GK3 into the GR-55 (no 1/4" cable from the guitar) . . . ran a stereo cable from the GR-55's Right output to the Right FX Return jack onthe HD500 . . . and finally a 1/4" cable from the HD500 Guitar Out to my amp . . . but there's no sound. There's nothing connected to the FX Send -- is that what I'm doing wrong? Thanks in advance!
Have you put an FX Loops FX in your pod patch with a mix set at 50%?
Also, if you do not connect your guitar output to the guitar input on the GK pickup only the synth and modeled guitar will work, not the PSU input.
francisb wrote "Have you put an FX Loops FX in your pod patch with a mix set at 50%?"
Not yet -- I went back to one of your previous messages and saw that late last night; will try to figure it out tonight. If you can provide any further instructions it would save me a lot of time. Sorry, I'm a total newbie with this kind of stuff!
And "if you do not connect your guitar output to the guitar input on the GK pickup only the synth and modeled guitar will work, not the PSU input."
Again, forgive me, but what is the PSU input?
1- Connecting anything to the Return input of the pod will not produce any sound unless you activate this fonctionnality in the FX chain of the pod. So you just have to add an FX Loops effect in the pod like you will do for Reverb by example. Then after that if you want to blend pod sound with GR-55 sound you need to set it's Mix value to 50%.
2- The GR-55 have 4 independant sound source: 2 synths, 1 modeled guitar and your guitar pickup. The first 3 are coming from the hexaphonic pickup, but the last one need your guitar pickup output into the GK pickup input to work. That would allow you for example to apply the GR-55 amp modeling to your regular guitar pickup and blend that with the pod modeling for example.
Hmmmm...Hi everyone on this thread, yes the GK setup on a variax is pretty cool, I have done similiar with a Vax 700 hardtail, and also have incorporated
a GR55 into my setup....I'm not using a HD500,or the VDI cable however.
Mine is connected via the two cable method, ie 1/4 trs cable from variax to L6 A/B power, then out to pedal board, a TC Nova system , with various A/B bypass pedals through a stereo volume pedal,out to single ended valve amp, a 13 pin to the GR55 from GK ,then guitar out from that into spare channel on acoustic amp, I use two acoustic amps for the GR55 tones left and right.
This setup gives me a pretty good mix and spatial spread from effects.
I have a JTV69, received just over a week ago,and it's OK, just as promised, the acoustic tones are improved, and the fender electric models sound as good as if not better than original.
However.........
If you're thinking of putting a GK3 on your new acquisition when it arrives, you may have a problem with crosstalk and latency, and buzz generated from the tyler bridge through the GK driver and into/ and out of the GR55, that's if you decide to use the single 13 pin cable only setup.ie 1/4 cable out from tyler into gk pup input.
In addition the distance from the tyler saddles to your GK pup will range from 23mm-28mm which is beyond the limit of that pup's setup.( 20mm max from guitar bridge)
This is my experience ,tried with a demountable GK3 which came with the GR55, I have the older?( better IMHO) GK2a pup on the Vax 700, no noise problems there.
So I'm leaving the JTV as it is, until a better midi driver comes along, apparently Fishman are developing a wireless version with the original inventor of the Axon unit. It would be good to get rid of those pesky 13 pin leads...![]()
You might be luckier with the JTV hardtail versions.....![]()
pappywatts wrote:
Hmmmm...Hi everyone on this thread, yes the GK setup on a variax is pretty cool, I have done similiar with a Vax 700 hardtail, and also have incorporated
a GR55 into my setup....I'm not using a HD500,or the VDI cable however.
Mine is connected via the two cable method, ie 1/4 trs cable from variax to L6 A/B power, then out to pedal board, a TC Nova system , with various A/B bypass pedals through a stereo volume pedal,out to single ended valve amp, a 13 pin to the GR55 from GK ,then guitar out from that into spare channel on acoustic amp, I use two acoustic amps for the GR55 tones left and right.
This setup gives me a pretty good mix and spatial spread from effects.
I have a JTV69, received just over a week ago,and it's OK, just as promised, the acoustic tones are improved, and the fender electric models sound as good as if not better than original.
However.........
If you're thinking of putting a GK3 on your new acquisition when it arrives, you may have a problem with crosstalk and latency, and buzz generated from the tyler bridge through the GK driver and into/ and out of the GR55, that's if you decide to use the single 13 pin cable only setup.ie 1/4 cable out from tyler into gk pup input.
In addition the distance from the tyler saddles to your GK pup will range from 23mm-28mm which is beyond the limit of that pup's setup.( 20mm max from guitar bridge)
This is my experience ,tried with a demountable GK3 which came with the GR55, I have the older?( better IMHO) GK2a pup on the Vax 700, no noise problems there.
So I'm leaving the JTV as it is, until a better midi driver comes along, apparently Fishman are developing a wireless version with the original inventor of the Axon unit. It would be good to get rid of those pesky 13 pin leads...
You might be luckier with the JTV hardtail versions.....
I have no crosstalk problems using a gk3 pickup on a JTV69. Ive used both the VDI directly to an hd500 and used just the JTV's 1/4inch signal through a 13 pin cable to the gr55 via the GK guitar input jack and had no issues with either configuration.
Also im not sure how you are placing the gk3 but all my saddles are all less than 20mm from the middle of each gk humbucker. The farthest is my low "e" string which is 18mm from piezo element to middle of gk element. All the cosm modelling functions extremely well as well as the PCM triggering.
If you are getting noise I recommend using some Deoxit on the 13 pin cable, as some users have reported that getting rid of noise on the 13 pin cable that came with the 55 (mine was fine however).
Hi..glad to hear someone's had some success with GK3 on a JTV 69....![]()
I recently posted about a neck change to my JTV, had put a warmoth tele neck on, which involved some re-intonation, bringing the saddles forward a few mm.
But alas..the distances are still around 19mm high E to the centre line of GK, and 24mm to low E. The intonation is spot on, incidentally the guitar rings/sustains very well with a change of neck, unlike the original. I must have got one of the early return/ sent back guitars for a re-setup and polish.
I think it depends on where your trem posts sit in relation to the bridge humbucker, I only have 2/3mm to play with either side, and can't get close enough to the tyler saddles without fouling the trem plate. I had this problem a few years back,putting an internal GK2a kit on a BM red special, had to grind the edge of the trem plate on that one, but tylers' design is right on the knife edge.
I'm aware of 13 pin coatings/oxide on the shipped leads/sockets for the GR55, and Deoxit is part of my toolkit as well....![]()
I'm still reluctant to hack the JTV about any more just to fit a roland pickup, it will have to remain a standalone, my main synth driver guitar is a Carvin SH575
with different issues, regarding the sensitivity and piezo signal strength, that still works reasonably well with the GR55.
If only 13 pin leads could be updated, to a better quality plug, preferably angled, and with solid earthing like the old 24 pin versions...![]()
wonderful ! I'll try this as soon as I can! that was exactly what I was looking for...it's a shame that it's not possible to swith a specific gr55 patch from hd500 :/
But, I think that associating a gr55 patch to a hd500 switch is enough for now.
thanks!
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