Polaris20 wrote:

 

The cost of the AxeII is not $2600. It's $2200 after the immediate coupon code you receive after you get on the waiting list. This is until they clear out the que. If you want to sit there and continuously hit refresh on the store button, then yes, it's $2600.

 

It's an interesting way of managing orders, but apparently it works for them.

Yes, $2600 if you buy outright.  $2200 if you get on the list and wait for what's going to be a very long time.  Or, you can apparently email Cliff and drive to his office and pick one up for the discounted price.

Still...$2200?  And you can't buy a lower end model like the Standard or Ultra anymore.  Smart move on Cliff's part.

Sorry to barge in here...But I see the complexity of the AXE as a shortcoming...Eventide too...TC Helicon Vocal Live...Oh man, worst manual on the planet I think...These are great units, but they are NOT writting tools in my mind...By the time I get the tone I want, I will have forgotten the idea and that's no good...To me, that is an important part of the equation because I spend most of my time writting...I do post production also, but then that's UAD and other stuff...Yea, that stuff takes time...But I don't try to write with that stuff...I really don't see the absolution in folks having to rationalize that some unit is better than another...better for you, him, her...cool...Not better for me...last thing I need is another 19" something or other with menus that are 300 levels deep...I got enough of that...

I don't see it as different markets...I see it as completely different part of producing music...Some guys need the AXE..>It fits thier workflow...More power to them...And I think that is why there are lot of folks that have both units...more colors to choose from, that all...Where it fits in the flow is a very personal thing...I think that is the point that is most often overlooked when trying to kindly say the AXE is better than the POD...who cares?

spaceatl wrote:

 

Sorry to barge in here...But I see the complexity of the AXE as a shortcoming...Eventide too...TC Helicon Vocal Live.I do post production also, but then that's UAD and other stuff...Yea, that stuff takes time...But I don't try to write with that stuff...I really don't see the absolution in folks having to rationalize that some unit is better than another...better for you, him, her...cool...Not better for me...last thing I need is another 19" something or other with menus that are 300 levels deep...I got enough of that...

 

Where it fits in the flow is a very personal thing...I think that is the point that is most often overlooked when trying to kindly say the AXE is better than the POD...who cares?

About the UAD.....  Every discussion about the Axe-FX ends up at it cost too much.  Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.   UAD is something I looked into recently.  UAD cost too much.  For a QUAD that I could probably easily crush with my requirements that has 4 processors costing about 30$ each why is the street price $1499?  Thats  a bigger markup that any comparitive discussion to Fractal with Tigersharcs.    Anyhow that was just a tangent thought.....  UAD not going to happen for me because of the buy-in price and that I would probably need 2 or more of them.

To your latter comments.  That is the bottom line, nail on the head stuff.  I have used both, now I use neither and nobody cares.

Polaris20 wrote:

 

I think the "it costs too much" argument is absurd. It's made in the US, and has 70 amp models, plus effects, for $2200. Any decent amp will cost close to that. Why does it have to be cheap if it's electronics?

 

On the other hand, the POD HD series are made in China, and are quite affordable. That doesn't make either one a poor value.

I do not disagree with your post.  The Fractal is a great value for what it is and I never got into that "its cost too much" thing with that product, but this forum is full of such statements.  I wanted an Axe-Fx a couple years ago so I bought one.   I could get and AXE-II if I wanted, but I don't want.  Line 6 is also a great value for what it is, but I don't want that either.   Cost and features aside I go with quality and reliability every time with everything I purchase.  Longer term with where I am now and gear and based on my history with both companies I will say that I would go Fractal again or someplace else and that I would not even consider using Line 6 again.

mikey1 wrote:

 

.... I'll keep the Line 6 stuff I have. Mainly because nobody will buy it. I might fart around with it now and then. ...

Really? I'm pretty sure that depends on your price. You must value your farts highly.

Karl, what I meant by not in the same market is that the HD500 is clearly in the $500 floorboard category.  Every large fx maker has one:  Boss GT-10, Digitech RP1000, Zoom G9.2tt, Vox Tonelab, etc.  All of these major companies keep their floorboards at the same basic price point, so it really becomes more about what they can cram into a $500 box.  I certainly wouldn't expect it to be on par with the Axe-Fx.  The whole idea behind the Axe was to create a product that was in bewteen the high end effects racks like Eventide and TC Electronics mfxs and the $500 floorboards.  There seemed to be a big jump from $500 (mfx floorboards) to around $3500-4000 (high end mfx racks).  The reason there is crossover in the market was (I think) by design - to pick up a few people who would pay a bit more for better product but wouldn't (or couldn't) bring themselves to shell out $4k+ for a big rack rig. Its a product that hits in the center of two markets.  Its high end enough to roll with the big boys but still just right there in the price range for you to pony up for it like you would a nice amp or put it on the credit card if you don't have the cash outright.

Spaceatl:

I am an audio engineer.  Gear like the Eventide and TC aren't aimed at the local band boys doing gigs on the weekend.  They are aimed at the studio markets.  They are aimed at people who are going to run the gear that you pay a lot of money per hour to record on.  They are aimed at studios that record broadcast commercials and the like, not the cover band guitarist market.  You don't see them as writing tools; well - really they aren't, or rather, that's not their primary function.  They are post production tools that can be used as pre-production tools.  Engineers are supposed to learn this gear so that when you come into a studio to record, you tell us what you want and we make it happen. Boxes like the HD500 are made for you and I think its great.  I own quite a few MFX units, pedals, and a few racks myself.  Everything has its use and I try to respect each unit for what it does.

For what its worth, I'm hoping for the day that all of this crap comes down in price.  There will always be high end gear for big studios just like there will always be luxury cars for rich people but the quality is increasing greatly every year.  I think the FX gap is closing fast and gear like the Axe-Fx II will come down to about half of what it is now in the next few years.  Just a 15 years or so ago, ADATs were a few thousand dollars each - now you can pick one up for a hundred or two on feebay. Technology grows quickly each year.

I was dreaming of a device like the Axe-Fx back in the early 90s.  Now, the tech is here, in use and almost easily affordable.  I hope in the next few years, chip technology will force ALL of these companies to have to drop their prices.

I suspect that Fractal Audio will have to change their business model soon or fade into obscurity because the tech will catch up to them but for now, they actually have a good product at a good price point for right now.

The market crossover is because its now a viable option for SOME MFX buyers.  Hopefully soon, it will be an option for ALL.  I'm not on anybody's side but my own.  I'm for getting the best quality for the cheapest price.

And I agree, Karl.  This is the best time in history to be a guitarist technology wise.  Good tone has never been this affordable.  If I truly wanted to, I could do a gig with my little Pandora PX4.

I think Cliff would jump in front of a train before he licensed out his technology. He seems pretty set about remaining a small company. Then again, money talks......

thank you for the lecture, I will try to keep it in mind...