Skip navigation
3675 Views 45 Replies Latest reply: Nov 2, 2012 10:35 AM by es336td RSS
es336td Just Startin' 182 posts since
Jan 29, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Aug 18, 2011 8:37 AM

My 600 let me down

I have a Variax 600 I got in 2006.   It worked well for a while then shortly before it's warranty went out, I had to take it in for service because the piezo's crapped out.  Periodically I would get the stuttering crap due to the coffin shield thing...   about a month ago, I took the thing apart and shielded the coffin with liquid electrical tape.  Put it back together and installed my GK-2a pickup on it.  Worked flawlessly.  For one project I'm in, I use it exclusively and it helped the show flow... until two weeks ago.  1st set... the top three strings just went dead.  During the break, I reloaded all the patches from a saved bundle.  Worked great.   Then when we went to start the 2nd set, nothing.  No sound.  Smacked it and it came back... for a few tunes... then I had to get the spare guitar I brought.   Has anyone had similar problems?  I'm close to just selling it and being done with it.

 

Also, the project above has decided to go to Eb as standard tuning.   I would have done that on all the patches, but I use the 12 strings for a few songs and we all know they can't deal with tunings.   I have periodically done this tune down before and it worked fine.  Could that be the reason for this problem?   I know when I dive bomb the whammy it cuts out when the strings get to a certain tension.

  • JellyWheat Gear Head 1,220 posts since
    Aug 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 18, 2011 10:53 AM (in response to es336td)
    Re: My 600 let me down

    I have no definitive answer to your detune question. IMO, if you are detuning the Variax by only a semitone, the piezos should still be within their dynamic range. Remember,however, that these pickups generate an electrical potential as a function of pressure applied to the crystal. If you diminish this pressure, you will also diminish the capacity of the pickup to generate a raw signal that can be bussed to the motherboard...

     

    [The reaction of the piezos to "dive-bombing" is a practical demonstration of the phenomenon to which I have alluded in the above paragraph.]

     

    I don't want to diss Line 6's efforts to further develop their excellent guitar and amp emulation algorithms. They sound great, IMO, and have a lot of practical potential. I choose the term "potential" because, IMO once again, the company's stubborn resistance to repackage their models in a rack version that can be accessed by any guitar equipped with hexaphonic output capabilities defies logic. I cannot bring myself to put aside the beautiful instruments that have served me so reliably for so many years, and which I enjoy playing so much, to suffer the spotty, idiosyncratic performance offered by the existing line of Variax models.

     

    I must temper the last statement by saying that my Fuji-Gen-Gakki made Variax 700 was a pleasant, reliable instrument. I do not, however, play on "legacy" instruments for which technical and software support may be withdrawn, arbitrarily and unilaterally, by the manufacturer, at its sole discretion.

     

    For all the complaints and criticism I could level at another well-known guitar manufacturer with a strong-willed and stubborn CEO, it has never abandoned its historical products, for which parts and support (although costly) are still readily available through a vast, world-wide distribution network, as well as directly from the manufacturer.

     

    I continue to support Line 6 in its quest for accessible, credible, reliable modelling technology. My sole wish is that they define this as their area of core competency and competive advantage, leaving the instrument-building to others who have demonstrated their superior abilities in this regard.

     

    Good luck and kind regards,

    JellyWheat

    • amx05462 Power User 3,495 posts since
      Sep 1, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Aug 18, 2011 1:53 PM (in response to JellyWheat)
      Re: My 600 let me down

      +10    j/w

       

      possibly  a loose  ground  or connector   based  on you gave  it  a  smack  and  it  came  back.  you  have to keep in  mind   the variax  is a delecate  instrument  not a beater.  you  have  to treat  it  like  a   little  girl  not an  old bar  fly   woman  lol

      • JellyWheat Gear Head 1,220 posts since
        Aug 18, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Aug 18, 2011 2:44 PM (in response to amx05462)
        Re: My 600 let me down

        amx05462 wrote:

         

          you  have to keep in  mind   the variax  is a delecate  instrument  not a beater.  you  have  to treat  it  like  a   little  girl  not an  old bar  fly   woman  lol

        You may rest assured, here, Dear Readers, that you are getting this advice STRAIGHT FROM THE MOUTH OF ONE OF THE GREATEST EXPERTS ON THIS SUBJECT THAT HAS EVER WALKED THE FACE OF THE EARTH. You can take it to the BANK!

         

        FYI

        JellyWheat

    • amx05462 Power User 3,495 posts since
      Sep 1, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Aug 21, 2011 4:14 PM (in response to es336td)
      Re: My 600 let me down

      well since  your  sending  it  in  anyhow .  see  what comes  of that  but theres  planty of documentation  on changing  out  thee pickups to graphtechs.

      • JellyWheat Gear Head 1,220 posts since
        Aug 18, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Aug 21, 2011 5:20 PM (in response to amx05462)
        Re: My 600 let me down

        Honestly... if you insist on gigging the thing, why not just send it to Rackvax and have an external unit made of it to put in your rack? Take your favorite straight axe and put a Roland GK-2 on it with double-sided tape, OR, get a Roland-ready Strtocaster.

         

        Housing all those boards and electtronic components in a guitar that is pressed tightly against the steaming body of a sweaty musician just does not seem logical to me... But what the hell do I know? YMMV

         

        Regards,

        JellyWheat

          • JellyWheat Gear Head 1,220 posts since
            Aug 18, 2008
            Currently Being Moderated
            Aug 22, 2011 3:01 AM (in response to es336td)
            Re: My 600 let me down

            I hear what you are saying... The thing is, the Variax models are pretty awesome in and of themselves, but the actual guitars have too much that can go wrong with them. A guitar is not a reliable platform for all those sensitive electronic components, IMO.

             

            You can have it made into a rack unit for the cost of 3 or 4 pro-quality stomp boxes and have all of the advantages with none of the downside. [After all, your Variax has earned its keep for the past 5 years: how much money have you put into your car over that same period?]

             

            But ultimately... you're the boss.

             

            Good luck.

            JéW

              • JellyWheat Gear Head 1,220 posts since
                Aug 18, 2008
                Currently Being Moderated
                Aug 23, 2011 4:18 PM (in response to es336td)
                Re: My 600 let me down

                I've had both the Line 6 and the Roland, and the Line 6 modeling blows Roland out of the water, IMO. Don't get me wrong... I LOVE Roland's quality and sound in most cases, but Variax modeling has got them beat.

                 

                I have also owned many MiM Starats, and the oldest Strat in my stable is a MiM SuperStrat that I play proudly and without reservation anywhere alongside my costly Custom Shop stuff. MiM is NOT an issue for me, and - one of these days - I'll have a white Roland-ready in the barn, too (ssshhh! Don't let Mrs. jellyWheat overhear!!!).

                 

                The thing with the RackVax is that once you have taken the plunge, it is a relatively feasible and cost-effective thing to equip your other favorite guitars with hexaphonic pickups, thus permitting you access to the best of both worlds, real and virtual.

                 

                That's my take on it, anyway. I see Line 6 putting the reast of their bread-and-butter into beans, stompbokes, rack units and amp cabinets with stunning success, and I ask myself every time why they bother to dither with all this on-board-the-crappy-guitar stuff.

                 

                My $0.02/YMMV

                Regards,

                JellyWheat

              • JellyWheat Gear Head 1,220 posts since
                Aug 18, 2008
                Currently Being Moderated
                Sep 16, 2011 9:11 AM (in response to es336td)
                Re: My 600 let me down

                es336td wrote:

                 

                My GR-Strat is a fine guitar, even though it's a MIM.  I could take the GK-2a off the Vax and put it back on my PRS Standard, or any number of other guitars.   I've been toying with the idea of the Roland GR-55; replacing the Vax and my GR-30.  It would be close to the same price as the RackVax once all is said and done.   However, the Roland sounds vs the Line 6 sounds is what drove me to the Vax...    decisions... decisions...

                ?(8>*}???... PRS = big monetas! ... any number of other guitars = more monetas!!

                 

                [The more I re-read these posts, the stranger it seems to me that there are not a few spare bucks floating around for a couple of relatively minor Variax repairs and a spare XPS Mini!

                 

                In the absence of some pretty basic upkeep on the Variax in question, sometimes I think the thread shpould be retitled:

                 

                "I let my 600 down."

                 

                ... or not. I may just be grumpy today because I didn't sleep that well last night! LOL]

                 

                My $0.02/FWIW/YMMV

                J/W

                  • JellyWheat Gear Head 1,220 posts since
                    Aug 18, 2008
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Sep 20, 2011 9:05 AM (in response to es336td)
                    Re: My 600 let me down

                    I think I understand your perspective, however - were I in your boots (which I am not)- I would be worried about the entropic risk: that is, if you don't restore the system to its stable state, it will continue to degrade and become more chaotic and unpredictable.

                     

                    Now, if the older Variax instruments were a dime a dozen on the second-hand market, one might be less careful to guard against this possibility. And, I suppose you could just ride this one out to the end and buy a new JTV, as well. This having been said, when live performances were my "bread and butter", I (speaking very personally, once again) could not have lived comfortably with the "wait and see" approach. But that is just me.

                     

                    As amx05462 often has to remind me, "whatever floats your boat" is the operant principle here, so please pardon me if I seem too judgemental...

                     

                    Hope your solution floats by soon!

                    JellyWheat

                      • JellyWheat Gear Head 1,220 posts since
                        Aug 18, 2008
                        Currently Being Moderated
                        Sep 20, 2011 9:37 AM (in response to es336td)
                        Re: My 600 let me down

                        OK... I thought you were earning your living with this rig, so we are already on different turf. The sense of urgency is gone, as you aptly note.

                         

                        Now, whether doing nothing can or will cause further degradation I dinna ken to answer. I'm with you on the battery part... that should not cause further complications if left unattended. BUT, we still don't really understand what is causing the time-dependent degradation of the performance of the Variax.

                         

                        What if, for the sake of argument, the cause is a failing electrical component on the board that - when it eventually does give up the ghost completely and utterly - will allow excess currrent to flow and thus damage the rest of the board? My point is that we have not ruled out this possible scenario, which could, conceivably, cost much more to fix than whatever repairs the Variax currently requires.

                         

                        Anyway... if you are not going to be losing any gigs by taking the risk and letting things evolve towards whatever the end state may be, who Im I to give advice?

                         

                        This should just be taken as my $0.02/FWIW.

                         

                        J/W

        • JoeValente Just Startin' 7 posts since
          May 14, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Aug 23, 2011 5:19 PM (in response to JellyWheat)
          Re: My 600 let me down

          Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't the RackVax take away your ability to change banks and even pickup positions from the guitar? And entirely eliminate the ability to go wireless?

           

          I bought mine to be able to go from Les Paul to acoustic, and from banjo to Tele mid-song. If I could still do that with the RackVax, I would consider surrendering my Relay wireless, but if I have to physically walk back to RackVax mid-song to change presets, well, that's a deal-breaker for me.

          • JellyWheat Gear Head 1,220 posts since
            Aug 18, 2008
            Currently Being Moderated
            Aug 23, 2011 5:42 PM (in response to JoeValente)
            Re: My 600 let me down

            I don't know the details.... you'd have to check the RackVax site to get answers to those questions.

             

            J/W

             

            PS: I just did a quick scan of their site, and it looks as though you can use MIDI to control the thing on the fly.

  • VARIAXED Just Startin' 52 posts since
    Aug 22, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 27, 2011 5:42 PM (in response to es336td)
    Re: My 600 let me down

    Time after time I have read about insulating the grave to protect the coffin against the ground however, I know of many problems that can cause trouble. What I believe to be the number one overlooked culprit; is that many Variax owners have Vari-ing degrees of intermittent problems that reside within the Variax's (fault prone) processor which is the (brain) control center including It's internal memory that can fail and manifest into a major system flaw and for some a complete and disastrous breakdown. YES! the Variax system is very delicate and not robust, one must take care. About your whammy situation, when you are performing your dive bomber runs, you are disrupting the bridge saddles (positive string to piezo pickup) contact thereby loosing It's optimum sound transmission.

    • JellyWheat Gear Head 1,220 posts since
      Aug 18, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Aug 27, 2011 7:07 PM (in response to VARIAXED)
      Re: My 600 let me down

      The Variax... "delicate"?

       

      Surely you JEST dear sir or madam!... you JEST!

       

      JellyWheat

      • amx05462 Power User 3,495 posts since
        Sep 1, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Aug 27, 2011 11:24 PM (in response to JellyWheat)
        Re: My 600 let me down

        so are  you saying  the  variax  is the  yugo  of guitars?

        • amx05462 Power User 3,495 posts since
          Sep 1, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Aug 27, 2011 11:34 PM (in response to amx05462)
          Re: My 600 let me down

          one  more  thing .  while  a good theory....  your theory is  faulty.    the  whole  bridge  system tilts  .     so the   piezos  and saddles  maintain there  place  and  ground.  under  your  theory   the  strings   would  have  to go completely loose.  this is  not the  case. the  pickups    also are  radused    so the  strings   do not  hang up  on them.    . .   my opinion is  that    you dont  loose  string  tension but  lower  the  tension  in a dive  bomb.  .  also     this  problem  occurs  in  hard tail  models  as well  so.  that    pretty much    takes  your  theory   out of  play.

           

          i would  imagine    much  like  addidas  who has a machine  to put there  newest  shoe  model through  extensive  tests     that  line  6 would  have   a  special  machine  to   to the  same  so  that   they can guarantee  that   dive bombing    would  not   upset  the   chip  in the guitar.   or if  not a machine    quite possibly a  frustrated  college  student  with  no girlfriend  to do  the dive bombing..

           

            but im sure they test these  things  before  putting  something   on the  market .   anything  less  would be  a solid  F.U.   to there  valued  customers.

    • JellyWheat Gear Head 1,220 posts since
      Aug 18, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Sep 13, 2011 9:44 AM (in response to es336td)
      Re: My 600 let me down

      Seems to me that you may have a problem with one of the larger capacitors in your rig : it might even be located in the XPS unit, itself...

       

      Is there no way you can rent/borrow an XTLive or X3Live and power the Variax with the VDI cable to see what happens? I had nothing but trouble with one of my 3 XPS Minis, while the other 2 always provided a reliable power source.

       

      If the problem persists using the VDI connection, you still may have a faulty cap on board whose values start to drift after the unit warms up. Unplugging may allow excess voltage to bleed away, so that when you plug back in, the problem does not immediately present itself. After a while, however, your cap values may begin to drift again, so the problem will reappear.

       

      My $0.02/FWIW

      Good luck,

      JellyWheat

       

      [BTW: I just went back to review your original post... tell us again why you have a GK-2a pickup on your Variax, please. Are the original piezos not working? I'm sorry - I don't understand the scenario any more.]

        • JellyWheat Gear Head 1,220 posts since
          Aug 18, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Sep 13, 2011 12:05 PM (in response to es336td)
          Re: My 600 let me down

          (((8>D}}}... so then, you have a POS as your main axe and a PRS as backup, if I understand correctly!

           

          [hnyuk-hnyuk-hnyuk... where is the Great One to share in the levity?]

           

          OK, I thought it might be something like that. I still say - broke or not - your most cost-effective diagnostic option at this stage is to rent a POD with a Variax connection and try it out. Your rig has a lot of components, and we have to start eliminating some potential problem areas. In this vein, you might also want to try out another XPS Mini and see whether the problem recurs.

           

          Here's another question : do you experience any problems at all when you are running on battery power alone? I realize this is not a viable long-term option for a gigging musician, but - as I said before- we need to start narrowing down the field of options, here, or we'll just continue to go around in circles...

           

          Later.

          J/W

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)