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970 Views 19 Replies Latest reply: Aug 13, 2012 5:51 AM by Benni2407 RSS
edstar1960 Iknowathingortwo
edstar1960
712 posts since
May 25, 2010
Currently Being Moderated

Oct 20, 2011 8:18 AM

JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

Here is an official Line6 demo of the JTV69 from Paul Hindmarsh using VDI and 1/4" jack connected at the same time:  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meqkcELwew0&feature=related

 

I have seen many reports on the forums that using both VDI and 1/4" connections at the same time is not viable because you get ground loop problems and other high pitched noises.  I have also tried doing the same thing with my JTV59 and encountered a ground loop issue and a high pitched whine. I have also seen reports that Line6's official response is that the guitar is working as designed when it encounters these issues.

 

So please can we have a detailed description of the rig and connection's that Paul used during this video that avoided all of these reported issues and allowed him to have both the VDI and 1/4" jack connections connected at the same time.  I am sure many people would be interested to know how they can circumvent this problem.

 

Thank you.

Tags: vdi, jack, time, 1/4", simultaneous, same, jtv
  • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User
    TheRealZap
    11,829 posts since
    Dec 22, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 20, 2011 8:24 AM (in response to edstar1960)
    Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

    just curious...

    why would you want both connected at the same time anyway?

    • edstar1960 Iknowathingortwo
      edstar1960
      712 posts since
      May 25, 2010
      Currently Being Moderated
      Oct 20, 2011 8:36 AM (in response to TheRealZap)
      Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

      Actually, I personally don't have that requirement - yet - but I know of several people who have mentioned it on the forums and the guy who prompted this question was using his JTV59 with VDI connected to his POD HD500 and at the same time using the 1/4" out to drive his ELEVEN rack.

       

      Some people may want to use the POD VDI to power the JTV and change the model patches by footswitch operation but take the 1/4" jack output direct into another signal processor.

       

      Plus - I guess Paul Hindmarsh in the official Line6 demo video had a good reason why he had both connected at the same time.  He doesn't actually expalin it though and doesn't draw attention to the fact that he has both cables connected - but you can clearly see that both are connected as he lifts the guitar up and talks through the demo. If we can find out what his setup was I guess we would understand why he had both plugged in.

       

      I am interested to hear others input and Line6 official answer.

      • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User
        TheRealZap
        11,829 posts since
        Dec 22, 2006
        Currently Being Moderated
        Oct 20, 2011 9:42 AM (in response to edstar1960)
        Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

        i went to one of pauls demo's in person and i don't think that the intent was anything to do with utilizing both connections simultaneously... more that he builds on each component...

        first showing the guitar itself and eventually showing the whole "dream rig" by including all of the patches tones etc of the pod and then the DT50 topologies etc.

         

        i'm not saying you couldn't get creative and run it to multiple processors etc... (as long as one is an L6 due to the VDI)

        was just curious is all, i suppose....

        • edstar1960 Iknowathingortwo
          edstar1960
          712 posts since
          May 25, 2010
          Currently Being Moderated
          Oct 20, 2011 10:34 AM (in response to TheRealZap)
          Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

          Actually it's not the utilizing both simultaneously that is significant - it's simply the fact that both are connected at the same time and he does not have any ground loop or high pitched whine issues - but I did when I tried it, and several others have had problems when they have tried it, and when some of these other users raised the question with Line6 the response was that the guitars were not faulty and that these issues were expected or normal (or words to that effect). But here we have the JTV69 demonstrated with both VDI and 1/4" connected at the same time, and apparently there are no issues - contrary to the answers others have been receiving.  So, it is possible to have both connected at the same time without issues, so how is it done?   Is it down to the individual JTV (ie: some are actually faulty in this respect)? Or is it down to some unit in the signal chain (ie: a hum destroyer)? A detailed description of Paul's rig setup from that video will hopefully answer all these questions.

    • m1westwood Just Startin'
      m1westwood
      3 posts since
      Jan 13, 2012
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      May 26, 2012 2:16 PM (in response to TheRealZap)
      Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

      RealZap,

       

      I use a Digitech Vocalist live 4 for Harmonies, and I need to run my guitar though that.  I am thinking the best way to do this would be to use two cables; the VDI cable to my hd500 and the 1/4 inch cable to my VL4.  Have not tried it yet, but this is why I would want to use both cables.  Unless - someone else can tell me how to get a clean (effects free) signal by going VDI through the hd500 and then out from there to my VL4.

       

      Thoguhts?

      • Iknowathingortwo
        MerlinFL
        1,667 posts since
        Jul 17, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        May 26, 2012 4:55 PM (in response to m1westwood)
        Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

        Yes - you could do exactly that and it would work or...

         

        You could use the FX loop Send Only into your Vocalist to get the guitar chords for pitch tuning without using two chords or disrupting your signal path and VDI connection.  You don't need the signal to come back out of the Vocalist, just in for your harmonies.

         

        And I had to re-read your question - the second part..FX free, that will be based on where in the signal chain you put the FX loop send.  If you put it at the top of the signal chain or even after a noise gate, it would not have any FX after the loop send as you wanted.

  • Line6Hugo Line 6
    Line6Hugo
    6,580 posts since
    Apr 8, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 21, 2011 10:03 AM (in response to edstar1960)
    RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

    edstar1960,

       

      In the video's comments, Paul's says, "that would have been acoustics straight into the PA and electrics into POD HD500 and DT50."

       

      Using both outputs on the JTV's typically yields the ground loop noise you mentioned.  Using a D.I. box with a ground lift or a Ground Loop Eliminator box would need to be used to eliminate this problem.

       

      Regards,

       

      Line6Hugo

    • edstar1960 Iknowathingortwo
      edstar1960
      712 posts since
      May 25, 2010
      Currently Being Moderated
      Oct 21, 2011 10:34 AM (in response to Line6Hugo)
      Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

      Hi Hugo,

       

      Thanks for the response.  I know from personal experience that not only do you get a ground loop problem but you also get a high pitched whine at around 3K when using both connections, and the ground lift or ground loop eliminator does not remove that sound.

       

      Also, can we clarify that Paul was actually using a DI box with a ground lift or a ground loop eliminator unit in his rig?

       

      Plus can we clarify that his comment "acoustics into PA and electrics into HD500 and DT50" actually meant his electric model signals were going via the VDI and the acoustic modelled sound was going via the 1/4" jack into the PA.  And further - did his 1/4" jack go into a DI box with ground lift before going to PA?

       

      If that's all that is needed to resolve this problem then I am sure everyone will be pleased to hear it and try it out.

       

      Thanks in advance.

       

      Best Regards

      Eddie

      • edstar1960 Iknowathingortwo
        edstar1960
        712 posts since
        May 25, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Oct 24, 2011 4:58 AM (in response to edstar1960)
        Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

        OK - I tried to recreate the problem today and to my complete surprise I could not.

         

        JTV with VDI and 1/4" jack both connected to my HD500 standalone and no ground loop hum !!  But it definitely did it last week when I first raised this thread - in fact that is what prompted me to raise the question.

         

        I tried these scenarios as well and found that they seemed to work.

         

        JTV with VDI connected to HD500 and "live" out 1/4" connected to input of combo amp, PLUS, JTV with 1/4" jack connected to input of my XENYX802 mixer - no noise when monitoring on headphones via either HD500 or XENYX802.

         

        Same but with HD500 standalone and XENYX 1/4" output connected to input of my combo.

         

        I then introduced my powered PA speaker into the scenario - so take scenario 1 with HD500 connected to combo and I added the powered PA speaker connected to the 1/4" out from my XENYX802 - and NOW I get a pulsing sound that is in time with the TAP tempo button on my HD500.  Weird!  This sound is there even when the output volume for the mixer is turned off.

         

        So I thought I would try a DI box. So the JTV 1/4" into the DI box GROUND Lift input and then into the mixer and the pulsing hum was still there. So I tried it into the DI box input without the GROUND Lift and the sound disappeared!!  I tried this with both balanced and unbalanced cables from the DI box to the mixer - both times the hum was present if I used GROUND lift but went away if I used the normal input.  If I did not use the DI box then the sound would also return.    That has confused me along with the fact that I could not reproduce the original problem.

         

        Bottom line is that it does appear to be possible to use BOTH the VDI and 1/4" jack outputs of the JTV at the same time without problems - so if you do hit problems then experiment with ground lift and ground loop eliminators and different connection methods and hopefully you will find a method that works.

        • Benni2407 Just Startin'
          Benni2407
          55 posts since
          Dec 22, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Aug 2, 2012 2:02 AM (in response to edstar1960)
          Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

          Hello,

           

          I am responding to this old thread, because it adresses my actual problem pretty well. I want to use the following setup:

          Both (VDI and 1/4") outputs of the JTV-59. VDI should go to POD X3 Live for acoustic sounds and 1/4" output should feed my Combo. I get am big noise/hum problem with that configuration.

          Now I thought of putting a DI-Box with Ground Lift in the line from 1/4" jack of the JTV to the combo. But I do not really understand how to do this. If I got it right, the signal coming out of the DI is symmetric, isn't it? Can I feed my combo with a symmetric signal? I guess I can't. So what to to? I would be really glad to have your help!

           

          Thanks in advance,

          Benni

          • edstar1960 Iknowathingortwo
            edstar1960
            712 posts since
            May 25, 2010
            Currently Being Moderated
            Aug 2, 2012 2:21 AM (in response to Benni2407)
            Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

            Hi Benni,

             

            By symmetric, I assume you mean balanced.  Well I think it is OK to use an XLR to 1/4 inch lead or adaptor between the DI box and combo input - so I would try that first.

            The other thing I would try is to use the DI box for acoustic sound and X3L for combo and avoid the balanced to unbalanced issue.

             

            Hope that helps.

            Best Regards

            Eddie

            • Benni2407 Just Startin'
              Benni2407
              55 posts since
              Dec 22, 2008
              Currently Being Moderated
              Aug 2, 2012 2:52 AM (in response to edstar1960)
              Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

              Hi Eddie,

               

              many thanks for your fast reply! Yes, I mean balanced. Sorry for my English... In German the right word is "symmetrisch" so I thought it might also be called "symmetric" in Englisch.

              I'm going to try the adaptor-version. I just found out, that there are ground loop eliminators, that work with 1/4" jacks as input and output. Maybe thats another solution. For example the ART Cleanbox II.

               

              The thing why I don't want to swap VDI and 1/4" is, that the POD gives best acoustic sounds and my amp makes brilliant sounds, when there is no POD before it. Actually I have the POD in the amp's loop, to get delays etc. from the POD. When I switch to the acoustic preset on the POD, the POD's loop is turned off and and output is sent to the direct outs instead of the live out, where the amp's loop is connected.

               

              That is really complicated, but it would give the best results for me, if I could get rid of that noise.

               

              Thanks again,

              Benni

            • edstar1960 Iknowathingortwo
              edstar1960
              712 posts since
              May 25, 2010
              Currently Being Moderated
              Aug 2, 2012 3:42 AM (in response to edstar1960)
              Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

              Hi Benni,

               

              No need to apologise - your English is excellent.  I understand your reasons for why you want the set up as you described.  Good luck with removing the hum and please post your solution here when you finally get it resolved.

               

              Best Regards

              Eddie

              • Benni2407 Just Startin'
                Benni2407
                55 posts since
                Dec 22, 2008
                Currently Being Moderated
                Aug 2, 2012 4:15 AM (in response to edstar1960)
                Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

                Hi Eddie,

                 

                thank you for your commendation! I'll do my best to get the hum problem mastered! For sure I will post my solution here if I am able to figure out a way to satisfactory solve it.

                 

                Best regards,

                Benni

                • Benni2407 Just Startin'
                  Benni2407
                  55 posts since
                  Dec 22, 2008
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Aug 13, 2012 5:51 AM (in response to Benni2407)
                  Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

                  Hello,

                   

                  I have figured out a solution for my hum problem now. I bought a ground loop eliminator, that has two seperate channels (Behringer HD400). This gound loop eliminator is put both in the line from the amp's fx-send to POD's aux and in the line from POD's live out to the amp's fx-return. Doing this, the POD is completely separated from the amp, which solves the hum problem.

                  Another way would be to put the ground loop eliminator in the line from the guitar to the amp's input. This also works, but I tend to hear a little less punch in the sound then.

                   

                  Maybe this helps people, who would like to play the same setup, that I do. It's really flexible now!

                   

                  regards,

                  Benni

  • cajulian Just Startin'
    cajulian
    6 posts since
    Aug 4, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 7:53 PM (in response to edstar1960)
    Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time

    I have been using my JTV69 thru a HD500 to DT25 Head and cabinet, and connected to my PA.  I Have been using both the VDI cable for electric to my DT25 and the 1/4 cable for acoustics to my PA.  I do get a high pitch/hum initially, but I go to my Hd500 and switch the input source to either Variax or Guitar and it eliminates the noise and I can play either the electric or the acoustics with no interference.  It works like this every time I have both cables in use.

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