Feb 17, 2012 2:42 AM
Line 6 - Please confirm Input Signal routing
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Latest reply:
Feb 18, 2012 3:08 PM by
meambobbo 
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To add a little addendum to what's already been said, I think the way to envision the A/B paths is to remember that each one is a stereo path. The A/B splitter, as you're calling it, doesn't separate into left and right, it's really more like a Y-splitter than an A/B box. So you have, potentially, a stereo signal being split into two separate stereo signals. When these stereo signals hit the mixer, they can be combined into one stereo output signal if the pan controls are left centered (or not hard panned), or you can hard pan them and then be left with a stereo signal that gives the left output of Tone A and the right output of Tone B. I won't say it's not complicated. It is, but it also gives you a lot of flexibility and options as to how you route things. It really opens up all sorts of possibilities.
If you want a true A/B split, it can be done if you set up the patch like the attached. But, to your point, there's nothing really like an actual A/B/Y box in the HD500's arsenal of effects.
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Yep, it's not a view - it's a fact...
It's easy to prove it to yourself if you want. Just set up a dual tone and put a true stereo effect (stereo delay with a different delay time on either side is a good one to use) after one of the amp blocks. Mute the other path completely in the mixer block. With the pan control in the center position you'll hear the stereo separation from the stereo effect. If you pan hard right or left, you'll only hear the respective side of the delay and not the other.
The thing that is weird is that even though you have the potential of having a pair of stereo signals coming from the mixer block, you are only left with one set of stereo outputs. It would be nice if you could send on tone to the 1/4" outs and the other to the XLR and have them be completely independent of each other. As of now, you can't do that. I don't if it's something that could be changed or not. I suspect it is probably a hardwired limitation, though.
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Re: 2 Stereo Paths. I totally disagree, this is not true.
You have two mono audio channels - A and B. That's it. I don't call them stereo channels because that implies dual left vs right panning. But the panning is only applied in the Mixer.
"Stereo" Effects have this arrangement (imagine a real world effects stomp box with 2 input and 2 output jacks). If they only have One Cable connected to mono input (A) then this is tied internally to Input B and Output B is tied internally to Output A.
Input A/Mono----------------I*********I---- Output A Mono
I FX I
Input B/Mono----------------I_________I---- Output B Mono
Mono Effects (including Amps) have this arrangment:-
I*********I
Input A+B(Mono)------------I FX I-----Output A+B Mono
I_________I
With Input 1 = Guitar, Input 2 = Null
1 AMP Before Split/T/Y
Input A/Mono----------------I*********I---- Output A Mono A+B Mono in Left Stereo
I FX I A+B mono Input to AMP ----- [AMP] --- A+B MONO OUT--[MIXER}<
Input B/Mono----------------I_________I---- Output B Mono A+B Mono in Right Stereo
NOTE: Input B is NULL so Stereo FX only Outputs Signal A. So only Signal A is heard in Left and Right Headphones. Example: Stereo Effect is Stereo Delay MIX 100%. LEFT Delay = 300ms 1 repeat. RIGHT Delay = 600ms 1 Repeat. In your headphones you hear 1 Repeat of 300ms in Left and Right ears.
1 AMP in A Path Only, AFTER Y Split, Before Mixer.
Input A/Mono----------------I*********I---- Output A Mono -- A mono input to AMP ----- [AMP] --- A MONO OUT--[MIXER] A Mono in Left Stereo Out
I FX I
Input B/Mono----------------I_________I---- Output B Mono ---------------------------------------------------[MIXER] B Mono in Right Stereo Out
NOTE: Input B is NULL so Stereo FX only Outputs Signal A. Only Signal A is heard in LEFT Headphone Only. Example: With above stereo delay setting, you hear 1 Repeat at 300ms in Left Headphone Only.
1 AMP in A Path Only, Stereo FX in A Path Only, Before Mixer.
Input A/Mono----------------I*********I---- Output A Mono -- A mono input to AMP ----- [AMP] --- A MONO OUT-- [MIXER] --- A Mono in Left Stereo Out
\ I FX I /
\-I__Ch B*__I-/
Input B/Mono------------------------------- Output B Mono ----------------------------------------------------[MIXER] --- B Mono in Right Stereo Out
* FX Channel B receives its input from Audio Channel A, and its output is sent to output channel A.
NOTE: Stereo FX is in a MONO Audio Path (Path A), so FX Input B is tied to A , and FX Output B is tied to A. In same example you hear 2 x Delays (300ms & 600ms) in the LEFT Headphone only.
CONCLUSION:
You can continue with further experiments, with Input 2 set to SAME. But you will still see that there are only TWO mono channels through the unit - A and B. (TIP: try AMP A Clean and AMP B Dirty with Stereo delay as mentioned above).
- Path A is not a Stereo Audio Channel - it is a Mono Audio Channel.
- Path B is not a Stereo Audio Channel - it is a Mono Audio Channel
Path B is always tied to Input 2 except when Input 2 = Same.
Please can Line 6 make some official amendment to their documentation, preferably including REAL SIGNAL FLOW Diagrams, covering all combinations and correctly worded explanations.
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Not to belabor the point, but here's something to try.
Assume Input B is not being used and the Tone B is muted at the mixer.
Without any effects and just and amp block before the in the signal split you'd have:
Input A -->Split ---> Amp --> Path A Mixer --> Stereo Out
Now, if you put a true stereo effect after the amp in this signal chain, you will have a separated stereo signal coming out of the left and right outputs. You'll hear the separation in your headphones. This wouldn't be possible if this were a mono signal.
Input A -->Split ---> Amp --> Stereo Delay --> Path A Mixer --> Stereo Out
The thing that makes this confusing, and yes, frustrating, is that it's somewhat of a matter of trial and error to determine what effects are true stereo. Most of the ones that are stereo are mono in/stereo out.
Also, note in the scenario I have shown above, the "Split" isn't really doing anything. It's just sending input A to the input of the Amp (or whatever effect you'd have first after the split).
I've attached what I'd make my tone look like if I just wanted a simple mono in to stereo out tone.
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I appreciate all your involvement and thoughts but I will not be pursuaded otherwise. I have proved to myself that what I say above is correct, and that is different to what is described in the manual. I sympathise with everyone who has ran into difficulties with this confusing subject over the last 6 months, as I have done. Channel A is MONO and Channel B is MONO.
Please feel free to do your own tests.
LARGE HELPING OF HUMBLE PIE JUST EATEN BY AX3M4N. Phil - with LEFT Mixer Panned at 0% I hear the Left and Right Delays in the Left and Right Channels. You have my humble apologies.
Apart from feeling a bit stupid, I am happy that most of the tests were valid, and that the subject has been hammered flat in one afternoon sitting. I still believe that Line 6 documentation is confusing to the extreme and that simple signal flow diagrams should be produced by them.
Thanks to all. I'm going to go play some guitar.
Ax3M4n
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Thanks all for your understanding; my rare afternoon off work spent tearing my hair out, leaning over my guitar trying to type as I went along. I'm a dab hand with Power Point - so time permitting I'll try and knock up a few slides with graphics - Picture's paint a thousand words.
When they say "The penny dropped" I think my penny fell from outer space.
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