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185 Views 5 Replies Latest reply: Feb 24, 2012 2:05 AM by arturoarredondo RSS
arturoarredondo Just Startin' 3 posts since
Jan 20, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Feb 20, 2012 10:48 PM

hd500 connectivity and 4CM problems

Hey guys I've been really wanting to take my HD500 as my only tour rig besides my guitar. I literally live off live touring across my country and want to give up my orange with its 2by12 cab since it costs way too much to fly all of this plus two guitars and an effects case.

 

It would be ideal to get on stage and just hookup my pod to the amp the venue has provided (it's a stack marshall 90% of the time).

I've been fiddling around with it and have found that preamp modeling is the best way it sounds IMOHO but have some questions.

 

Since it does not have the dual patching as the axe-fx (sending one line with only the pre-amp model for your own onstage monitoring for your amp and the other with full modeling on to the PA mixing board) I really need for this to work in a live situation.

 

I have a couple of questions if you guys don't mind:

 

1) I've read all threads and posts about how to use de HD500 as an fx only thing using the 4CM but have not been able to . I have an orange rockerverb and it seems that once you plug a cable in to the poweramp in (or fx return for other amps) every knob in the amp stops working.

I like this when using the preamp modeling only from my HD500 but what if I ONLY want to use it as fx and do my clean and dirty amp switching in my own amp? Any help? (this also happens with my hotrod deluxe)

 

2) What would be the difference between the 4CM as opposed to just going in straight to your amp's preamp in the context of in front/behind amp FX sound? I've realized that when connected just straight into my amp's poweramp, my effectsblocks will surely change sonically if put in front or behind my preamp sim inside the chain. Can I still use let's say.. a wah wah pedal put in front of my fx chain even though i'm not using the 4CM?

 

3) Also, If using my POD as a preamp only modeler into my amp, How do I get the closest to a clean channel of lets say... a mesaboogie? It's just weird how playing live I just use one off/on button for a clean and dirty channel of the same amp and with the POD i would have to use a completely different amp model for a clean tone and have to step on a different preset for a clean.

 

 

(it would be optimal if i had 2 setlists inside my pod. 1 for preamp only modeling and if in case something goes wrong in the gig, just switch to setlist 2 for fx only-and use the backup marshall that's provided (using the marshalls' poweramp with dirty channel etc.)

 

 

My Live Setup (hopefully will be replaced by a single POD

:

PRS guitar into wireless, into tuner, wah, whammy, etc etc. -into front of Orange Rockerverb 100. M13 into amps fx loop for choruses reverbs etc.

 

Thanks a bunch guys!

  • Iknowathingortwo 1,667 posts since
    Jul 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 21, 2012 10:10 AM (in response to arturoarredondo)
    Re: hd500 connectivity and 4CM problems

    This is a real easy one.  I hope this advice helps you out.

     

    Plug HD500 into Marshall FX return just to access the power plant.  Then either plug a mic cord into the emulator out depending on the Marshall head you're given or mic the cab.

     

    One other option I know might be possible if your band provides a rider for your performances.  You can specify a Line 6 DT25 or DT50 head with whatever cab to go with it.  Then you can get the EXACT full rig sound by having the PA person plug into the XLR jack on the back on the DT head.

     

    No complicated patching, no extra cabling no matter which option you find best suited for your purpose.

     

    Take care,

    Neal

      • Iknowathingortwo 1,667 posts since
        Jul 17, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Feb 22, 2012 11:17 AM (in response to arturoarredondo)
        Re: hd500 connectivity and 4CM problems

        If you are certain there is no way to have what I suggested with the Marshall models with XLR out, or be able to rent a Line 6 DT50 Head - that's a shame.  BUT I still think the way you are describing what you wish to do is not the best way to handle this situation.  Too complicated and too easy for something to not work correctly and produce sounds on stage or through the PA that you would not be happy with in my opinion.

         

        If you must go only from the board, and miking the amp is not an option either - which I do not understand why that would be a very simple solution??

         

        However, I then would suggest you use the POD HD500 XLR outs to the FOH and the 1/4" outs for the Marshall amps into the FX return ONLY.  Do not plug the HD500 into the front of any of the Marshal amps.  This will cause you for problems, headaches, and poor sound.  Every Marshall amp since the 1980s have had an FX loop on the back of the head. If you are getting Marshall heads that do not even have FX loops, then they must being using amp about 30 years old.

         

        Setting up your HD500....I recommend using FULL  patches with cabs/mics you like the sound of, then run the HD500 in Studio/Direct output mode. from ALL outputs.  This will give you the best possible sound on stage by just using the Marshall power amp section into the cabs, and it's the correct setting to go direct from the HD500 into the FOH console.  Unless the PA person does something very weird, you should sound nearly identical on stage as you should coming out of the PA.

         

        A bit more non-typical set up would be to use ONLY the XLR out to the FOH console and then have a separate return from your channel PRE EQ and run THAT SIGNAL into your Marshall FX Return.  Then you know 100% certain that the sound you are hearing from the cabs on stage is the sound coming out of the PA.  This just means that the FOH console has to have and Aux Send that can be used ONLY for your guitar sound.  And I'm not even considering what mix you get in your stage monitors.  Literally you would not even need to use the amp on stage at all if the monitor system is flexible and good enough.

         

        Another version of this would be to use an unbalanced SPLITTER/DI box to cover your signal to the console and have the same signal then brought down to an unbalanced 1/4" jack for the FX Return.  This is ONLY if you are not able to get both the 1/4" jack & XLR jack from the HD500 to send out the exact same signal.  This should be only an option IF you can't get the POD HD to work the way it was designed and how I described previously.

         

        Anyway - the point of all this is that your situation should not have to be complicated.  IF you never use any acoustic guitars running through your HD500, you shouldn't need to do anything more than plug the POD HD into the FX Return on the back of the Marshall head and have the PA person just mike up the cabinet - just like in the olden days when none of this tech gear existed.

         

        But these are all the ways I know as a FOH PA person for over 30 years.  I have used at one time or another all of these suggestions working with other bands using Line 6 gear or as a guitarist on stage working with a PA person who doesn't have enough inputs or outputs, etc.

         

        Take care,

        Neal

  • danerada Just Startin' 24 posts since
    Aug 17, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 21, 2012 12:47 PM (in response to arturoarredondo)
    Re: hd500 connectivity and 4CM problems

    What Merlin said will work for sure. Also as Merlin stated, a DT-50 head would be great for you and would be great if it could be included in the rider. The venues should be able to rent gear for the show....

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