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360 Views 10 Replies Latest reply: May 16, 2012 9:00 AM by dboomer RSS
tccc Just Startin' 14 posts since
Apr 14, 2012
Currently Being Moderated

May 12, 2012 7:32 AM

XD-V75L Hiss

Hi all,

 

Racked up the full 14 V75 systems last night ready for use in the theatre night week, came to test them out with all the beltpacks up and running, and noticed a slight hiss on every channel when connected to the mixer. Admittedly it's when there's quite a bit of gain applied, but if it was at a volume to record a conversation from some distance away, you'd hear it (I know this isn't a likely use, I'm just giving it as an example!)

 

Initially I thought it was just the lavalier, so I tried another and it was the same. Then I disconnected the mic completely, and the hiss was still there. Connected a standard mic straight to the mixer channel to check that it wasn't just preamp noise - totally silent even with full gain.

 

So, thinking it was somehow related to having all the power cables and XLR looms cable-tied inside the rack, I removed one receiver and just connected it straight to a mains socket using one of the supplied Line 6 9V adaptors, and a single (short) XLR cable going straight to the mixer - still the hiss is there. If you leave the receiver on, and turn off the beltpack, silence again...

 

Any thoughts?! Can someone else (Ron?) verify if this hiss is just the nature of the kit? I'm not really expecting it to be an issue in normal use, I'm just surprised that they're not totally silent given the technology.

 

Thanks!

  • dboomer Line 6 Support 1,997 posts since
    Oct 13, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 12, 2012 10:38 AM (in response to tccc)
    Re: XD-V75L Hiss

    Well nothing is totally silent, but they are about 10dB quieter than any other wireless units.  I'm assuming you don't have any XDV hardware issues as they all are acting the same.

     

    A lot will depend on how close to the mouth you can get the lavs.  You could also try boosting the output in the receiver, in the setup menu.

     

    Are the power supplies for the receiver and for the mixer on the same service?  Do your clear cables have the shells connected?

     

    There's gotta be an answer.  Please stick with me and we'll solve it.

      • RonMarton Iknowathingortwo 357 posts since
        Jan 12, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        May 12, 2012 5:39 PM (in response to tccc)
        Re: XD-V75L Hiss

        Sorry about the zone-related time delay of this reply, Theatre-Hissers...

         

        ...But I'm hoping  that something I've noticed in adapting and connecting my huge variety of sources to TBP12 belt-packs may be of assistance.

         

        (Click on the pink pic at left for details of my rig.)

         

        Being all in the bit-mapped digital domain, the processing inherent in these belt-packs isn't the dreaded "Automatic Level Control" compressor of analog gear, nevertheless one of the (very few) artefacts I have regularly observed sounds remarkably like the automatic application of a staggering amount of gain in the absence of "identifiable" (hence encodable) signal waveforms being input at "decent" levels.

         

        If you thing the hiss with nothing connected is objectionable, you should hear the racket when an unterminated XLF (mic socket) to TA4F (belt-pack socket) adapter cable is moved around or "scrunched up", ...it can range from a deafening "waterfall" to an entire avant-garde soundscape !

         

        Now, despite me being an almost lifelong Yamaha fan, their early 01/02 "V" and "R" consoles did have some of the noisiest, dirtiest-sounding and nastiest-clipping mic preamps I've ever experienced, in keeping with the ongoing paucity of their cumbersome, tiny and hard to read LCD menu navigation, ...none of which is relevant to this discussion.

         

        Nor is Yamaha's subsequent reaction in endowing subsequent generations of their mixers with industry-leading sonic transparency and clear, ergonomic operation, at prices relatively far lower than their predecessors.

         

        (If your thinking, however, that I'm hinting at replacing an old 01V as soon as money allows, ...you'd be damn right ! Yamaha LS9's are like 01V's on stereoids, ...only much sweeter-sounding, staggeringly more powerful and far easier to use.)

         

        http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/products/mixers/ls9/

         

        (When dreaming, ...why not dream BIG ?)

         

        While we're ruling things "out", you've done a great job of proving that mains supply and rack (or any other) wiring also have no bearing on this artifact.

         

        Which brings us back to your fabulous MKE-2 mics, or, to be more specific, quality of sound from their TBP12's and their XDV-75 receivers when they're actually being fed spoken word, as distinct from merely picking up ambient room noise.

         

        Betcha that you won't hear anything other than the performance, the whole performance and nothing but the performance, while an actor is actually speaking.

         

        Nor will any "pumping" or "breathing" of ambient noise be audible between speeches.

         

        It's just that this form of bit-mapped digital input processing renders obsolete the old analog starting-point estimation technique of "preset the input trims till the room noise sounds about right".

         

        Speaking of room noise, I've found it well worth experimenting with the XD-V's "Environment" settings in rehearsal, particularly when given simultaneous overlapping contributions from large numbers of participants. (Yes, I do hate teleconferences.)

         

        I've found "Environment" to have been a really useful tool in such situations, once you're used to adjusting the gains upwards upon switching in the harsher "Speech" mode in the event that you decide to employ it for almost automatic "multi-gated" mixing.

         

        It is, however, much more than just a "gate", ...playing with it being by far the best way to evaluate its dynamic, multi-parametric operation and its consequent appropriateness (or otherwise) for your individual situations.

          • RonMarton Iknowathingortwo 357 posts since
            Jan 12, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            May 13, 2012 1:44 AM (in response to tccc)
            Re: XD-V75L Hiss

            I just got back from an outside broadcast ("remote" to the Americans) and am "dashing this off" in the hope that you'll see it before your next theatre job...

             

            ...Because I feel you really should pack your paddles, as "bench" RF reception offers almost no guidance whatsoever in terms of what might be obtained in actual use.

             

            If it were my stage job, (given a choice) I'd always like to have the option of paddles over whips, for a whole host of reasons, of which I'll only list the most vital three:

             

            1. There aren't mobile bags of brine (people, "perfect" reflectors/absorbers of RF) running interference at your place;
            2. Amplifier compensation is essential for the cable losses endemic in rigging some antennae for vital lines of sight and
            3. The term itself reflects the fact that true "diversity" (hence the best RF) is best derived from pairs of antennae that are indeed "diverse". I'm referring to the fact that this best performance requires rigging for a given antenna pair to not only "see around" RF obstacles, (whether stationary or mobile) but preferably also to "see" slightly "over and under" them. So, in the case of your P180's, one should be more frontal than its side-oriented "mate", one also being higher or lower than its "mate", with both of their notional "hemispheres" of reception covering the entire performance area, ...while simultaneously "back-rejecting" possible WiFi interference from the public or elsewhere in the venue. This is impossible to achieve with non-directional passive whips that can only be very close to their receiver/s. ...Having said all that, some "weird" performance and receiver set-ups have given me best "walk test" results with one whip being "mated" to a P180 !

             

            Regarding the hiss that prompted this discussion, I'm coming around to the opinion that it may also prove to be the unrealistic nature of your "bench test" that's to blame.

             

            I'd like to hear what happens when, having re-established the gain and headphone settings of your test, you remove an XL female from the rear of an XD-V receiver and replace it with a standard dynamic (non-powered) mic such as a bog-standard SM58.

             

            Be very careful in re-employing the headphones for this test, (indeed don't even have them plugged into their socket when making the receiver/mic swap) as I have a feeling that a standard "Check, one-two" into the dynamic mic will prove to be very loud indeed, maybe even dangerously so.

             

            Should this be the case, it'll prove that an unrealistic "bench-induced" gain structure is indeed at the heart of "grief" that will never be apparent in actual performance.

              • dboomer Line 6 Support 1,997 posts since
                Oct 13, 2008
                Currently Being Moderated
                May 15, 2012 1:12 PM (in response to tccc)
                Re: XD-V75L Hiss

                100m would be well beyond the limit of 100 feet!

                  • RonMarton Iknowathingortwo 357 posts since
                    Jan 12, 2012
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    May 15, 2012 7:01 PM (in response to tccc)
                    Re: XD-V75L Hiss

                    Great news...

                     

                    Generally, you'll be amazed at the range with just the rubber duckie whips, but the paddles are essential insurance should you even have the slightest suspicion that itinerant interference may turn up later.

                     

                    Also back-rejection of other possible WiFi is vital for maintaining range in the RF2 scheme, which you'll need to employ whenever more than a dozen channels are to be used simultaneously.

                  • dboomer Line 6 Support 1,997 posts since
                    Oct 13, 2008
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    May 16, 2012 9:00 AM (in response to tccc)
                    Re: XD-V75L Hiss

                    You will never notice a "sonic" difference using the paddles.  You will just add to the reliability.

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