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Up to Discussions in James Tyler Variax Guitars
733 Views 13 Replies Latest reply: Aug 1, 2012 9:54 AM by demiand RSS
diggerbarnz Just Startin'
diggerbarnz
38 posts since
Oct 8, 2011
Currently Being Moderated

Jul 9, 2012 3:41 AM

acoustic sounds

I can't seem to get the full acoustic sounds from my variax - lookin for tips, I'd like to get it sounding like the line 6 videos that made me want it in the 1st place!

@ the present...it sounds to thin & "rubbery" lol

  • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User
    Crusty_Old_Rocker
    3,096 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 9, 2012 4:39 AM (in response to diggerbarnz)
    Re: acoustic sounds

    "What are you playing through? You need to play the acoustic models through a full range flat response amp system. Use of subtle compression and good preamp eq also helps with good acoustic tones. Let us know more about your rig and well be able to help.

     

    Cheers,

     

    Crusty

  • ScottAllenRauch Just Startin'
    ScottAllenRauch
    4 posts since
    Jul 7, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2012 9:40 PM (in response to diggerbarnz)
    Re: acoustic sounds

    Please excuse my ignorance. I have had my Variax JTV for only a few days.

     

    I updated to v1.82 firmware, but the "Acoustic" models still have an overwhelming piezo effect - making those models (THE ONES I WANTED THE MOST) useless.

     

    Can't I just plug the guitar into a reasonably good amp (Fender Acoustasonic-30) or a very good PA system and have the "Acoustic" models sound good?

     

    I listened to the video of the great acoustic guitar sounds "James Tyler Variax: Free v1.8 Firmware Update - YouTube" (www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpWUkD46qQg). Is the only reason this guy's guitar sounds so good is that he has all that other stuff (about which I know nothing, except that it did NOT come with my guitar)?

     

    I will appreciate any help you can give me.

    • edstar1960 Iknowathingortwo
      edstar1960
      712 posts since
      May 25, 2010
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 13, 2012 1:46 AM (in response to ScottAllenRauch)
      Re: acoustic sounds

      ScottAllenRauch wrote:

       

      Please excuse my ignorance. I have had my Variax JTV for only a few days.

       

      I updated to v1.82 firmware, but the "Acoustic" models still have an overwhelming piezo effect - making those models (THE ONES I WANTED THE MOST) useless.

       

      Can't I just plug the guitar into a reasonably good amp (Fender Acoustasonic-30) or a very good PA system and have the "Acoustic" models sound good?

       

      I listened to the video of the great acoustic guitar sounds "James Tyler Variax: Free v1.8 Firmware Update - YouTube" (www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpWUkD46qQg). Is the only reason this guy's guitar sounds so good is that he has all that other stuff (about which I know nothing, except that it did NOT come with my guitar)?

       

      I will appreciate any help you can give me.

      Hi Scott,

       

      Firstly check out this thread and listen to the recorded tracks that it points to: http://line6.com/support/message/383292#383292

      Personally, I think Chuck has managed to get the best Variax acoustic model sounds recorded that I have heard so far, even better than the Line6 demo's. He reveals how within the thread.

       

      Now to address your specific question on how to get your JTV acoustic models to sound so good.

       

      1) What have you got your TONE knob set to?  If it is on 10 or full on, then remember that 1.82 introduced a mic setting at that TONE value which basically removes all body ambience and is like having the mic positioned above fret 12 of the guitar - and I guess that will make it sound very piezo like.  Try moving the TONE down through to full off or 0 and listen how the virtual mic effectively moves away from the acoustic guitar model and introduces the authentic body ambience you expect from a mic'd up guitar.  Find your preferred setting for the TONE knob and keave it there.

       

      2) What EQ are you applying to the acoustic model when playing back? This is crucial as the wrong EQ settings will wipe out all the body ambience sounds.  Remember also that playing through an electric guitar amp will never souds as good as going through an acoustic guitar amp or a PA system or a keyboard amp or any other amp that has a full range flat response (FRFR) speaker system. Those other systems are designed to amplify all the frequency range and reproduce the natural acoustic sounds - an electric guitar amp will only give you the midrange frequencies.

       

      3) How are you playing when you are on the acoustic models?  You get better results from playing more lightly and with a lighter pick.

       

      4) What gauge strings are you using?  .010 and above will produce more realistic acoustic model tones.

       

      Hope that all helps.

       

      Best Regards


      Eddie

      • ScottAllenRauch Just Startin'
        ScottAllenRauch
        4 posts since
        Jul 7, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jul 14, 2012 3:07 PM (in response to edstar1960)
        Re: acoustic sounds

        Hello Eddie,

         

        Wow! Thanks for such a quick and thorough answer! It will take me a bit of time to evaluate everything, but here are my first thoughts.

         

        Question: Since it looks like further signal processing is required to create a good-sounding acoustic guitar from the JTV, and I have no sound technician to adjust things based on the model I select, can't I just use the Variax Workbench to program the JTV to do this processing? Has someone already done this, so there are settings I can duplicate?

         

        Thoughts:

        First of all, I should have stated clearly that the piezoelectric pickup effect I was referring to sounds like the worst fret buzz you could possibly do. It may be that the acoustic models are just VERY sensitive to fret buzz. I not settled on this. It happens with anything heavier than VERY light finger-picking. Also, there is no faux (or intensified) fret buzz when any of the electric models are selected.

         

        Secondly, I am comparing the sound of the JTV with three other acoustics I have – all with internal electronics:

            Taylor 714ce (6-string with Expressions System (ES) (older-type ES with 2 x 1.5 V batteries))

            Taylor 455ce (12-string with the same ES as the 714ce)

            Takamine CD132SC (classical with fancy DSP)

        I think all of these guitars pre-date 2005, so their electronics are not the latest. All three sound great when plugged into my (pre-DSP) Fender Acoustasonic-30 amp (made specifically for acoustic guitar amplification) with all the controls flat (i.e., bass, mid, and treble at their midpoints, and all other amplifier effects off), and without any other intervening electronics. So, I know my "sound system" can sound plenty good.

         

        I was expecting this guitar to sound OK right out of the box, like my other guitars. I planned to unpack it, tune it, etc., select "1959 Martin® D-28" or "1960 Martin® D12-28" and out would pop acoustic guitar sounds. The only variable would be the simulated location of the microphone. (I was under the impression that this was Line 6's goal, too.)

         

        You are dead right about Chuck's guitar sound – it's great! However, his description of what he did was meaningless to such a noob as me. Chuck: "I went directly mono through a M-Audio USB interface.  I then added Izoptope Ozone-5 as a plug-in and used the warm acoustic preset (EQ, Reverb, slight compression, and Harmonic Exciting)." I am about 99.44% certain these settings are NOT on the JTV guitar.

        I DID understand these bits:

        1. Chuck: 0.011" with a wound G

             Me: My strings came with the guitar – the G is not wound, and I believe the E is 0.010. Maybe I will change these later.

        1. Chuck: The volume control is set at ten, but the tone is all the way off.

             Me: I now have my controls as he described.

        1. Chuck: JTV-59 was updated to 1.82 before I made the recordings.

             Me: OK here, too.

         

        To address your points:

        1)  TONE KNOB: I now leave it on 0; and the volume at 10 (like Chuck). (However, the tone knob seems to have very little control over the sound.)

        2)  EQ:  As noted above, everything was flat or off. I don't believe the amp is the problem since it sounds great with my other real acoustic guitars.

             I now turn up all the way the "String Dynamics" (designed to eliminate the piezo effect). This helps the piezo effect problem a LOT, but the guitar sound is still hollow. Turning down the midrange helps.

        3)  PLAYING INTENSITY:  VERY light finger-picking was listenable, but even moderate finger-picking was unlistenable. With (Fender) "String Dynamics" up all the way, thing are better. Mysteriously, using a pick is loud enough to mask the issue some (but maybe this is just my imagination and wishful thinking).

        4)  STRING GAUGE: I have what came with the guitar – see above.

         

        All this begs the question, why did Chuck have to do ANYTHING to get a great sound? One would think that Line 6 is the expert in signal processing, not Chuck (no offence intended toward Chuck, he obviously IS the expert.) Why would Line 6 leave in the elements that need to be removed? Why did they not finish the job?

         

        Thanks Again,

        Scott

        • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User
          Crusty_Old_Rocker
          3,096 posts since
          Jan 24, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jul 14, 2012 9:41 PM (in response to ScottAllenRauch)
          Re: acoustic sounds

          Plugging straight into a PA works great for me. Try changing your strings and give the guitar a proper set up. I didn't play mine before setting action & intonation to suit the Elixir Nanoweb strings that I use. The Nanoweb coating makes the string contact with the piezo pickups a bit less lively.

           

          Cheers,

           

          Crusty

          • ScottAllenRauch Just Startin'
            ScottAllenRauch
            4 posts since
            Jul 7, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jul 15, 2012 3:47 PM (in response to Crusty_Old_Rocker)
            Re: acoustic sounds

            Thanks Crusty.

             

            I use Elixir Nanoweb for my steel-string acoustics. They are great strings.

             

            Which gauge Nanoweb for the JTV?

             

            I suspect adjusting the action and intonation for these new strings will be a big benefit, also. I am looking forward to it with the fully adjustable bridge (compared to my acoustics).

             

            I have noticed that with the 0.010 strings, I can't just tune the JTV using my tuner. I must also tune (temper) a few of the strings so E, D, and barred G chords sound good. String stretch is REALLY touchy. Clamping down hard on chords is right out!

             

            Thanks again,

            Scott

            • edstar1960 Iknowathingortwo
              edstar1960
              712 posts since
              May 25, 2010
              Currently Being Moderated
              Jul 16, 2012 1:21 AM (in response to ScottAllenRauch)
              Re: acoustic sounds

              Hi Scott,

               

              Workbench can be used to create new models using different combinations of body's and pickups and modifying component settings for the electrics and also adjusting the string tuning for all models but it can't be used to apply EQ or reverb or the things that people apply in recording or live to produce their desired mic'd up acoustic sound.

               

              Assuming that your JTV is not faulty, getting the acoustic models to sound right to you will require trial and error on your part.  What sounds right is subjective - you will read on these forums that people do everything from plugging their JTV straight to PA, to using a POD to apply EQ and reverb or other effects to get the live sound that they want either through a PA or through their own amp.  Some people love the 1.71 versions of the acoustics and hate the 1.82 versions and vice versa.  What's right for you may not be what's right for someone else - you will have a different playing technique and a different setof leads and amps to others - so you need to tweak things to get the sound you are happy with.

               

              What if your JTV is faulty? Now that's tricky - because there are so many variables effecting what the end result might sound like and not forgetting that end result is still subjective, how do you know if the JTV actually has a fault?  Well the easiest way is to record it directly. By that I mean, plug the guitar directly into any audio interface on a PC and record it using any digital audio workstation program, without applying any effects.  If you have a POD X3L or a POD HD500 then either of these can function as an audio interface to a digital audio workstation (DAW) program - and you can set up a patch with no effects and record the dry guitar signal and when you play it back it should hopefully sound just like a mic'd up acoustic without any fuzziness.

               

              First and foremost you must ensure the guitar is set up correctly and that it is not suffering from any intonation or fret buzz issues - these things will definitely affect any modelling so they need to be right.

              Secondly, as you have already mentioned, you need a light touch when playing - pressing too hard will cause the strings to go sharp because of the jumbo frets - they are way above the height of the fret board so don't try to push the strings down to the fretboard - just press hard enough for them to make contact with the frets and firm enough to avoid them buzzing.

               

              Once the JTV is setp up correctly, and you ensure you playing technique on the JTV is clean, then try the direct recording and see if you can get acceptable mic'd up sounds.  If you don't have any PC recording capability then try to get accetable sounds through your amp by using the same playing technique and adjusting the EQ on the amp to suit your tastes.

               

              One other thing to note - I have found that with my style of playing, that the acoustic models sound more authentic if I turn the volume on the JTV down - if the volume is full up I end up hearing the string more than the body overtones mixed with the string and in a band setting it can end up just soundling like a piezo eectric rather than a mic'd acoustic - so also try adjusting the JTV volume down.

               

              Also note that sometimes the strings can cause issues. I remember someone reported that when they changed strings they noticed a weird overtone and worked out it was because of the way they had fitted the string on the bridge saddle - it was upside down - aparently one side is flatter and they had the wrong side next to the piezo - turning it so that the flat side was next to the piezo resolved their issue - so take a close look at how the strings sit in the piezo saddles - maybe they are moving around too much and that be adjusted by turning the string or fitting different strings.

               

              If you still cannot get the acoustic models to sound acceptable then contact Line6 as you may have a faulty guitar which needs attention.

               

              Hope that helps.

               

              Wish you the best of luck in getting the JTV to produce the acoustic sounds you want.

               

              Best wishes

              Eddie

              • ScottAllenRauch Just Startin'
                ScottAllenRauch
                4 posts since
                Jul 7, 2012
                Currently Being Moderated
                Jul 16, 2012 6:14 PM (in response to edstar1960)
                Re: acoustic sounds

                Hello Eddie,

                 

                I suspect that you have summarized about 500 posts for me!

                 

                I have pasted your response into a Word document along with this outline (checklist):

                1.  What Workbench can and cannot do.

                2.  Subjective tweaking is required - there are lots of variables.

                3.  Record it "dry" and listen to playback.

                4.  SETUP guitar correctly [possibly with new strings].

                5.  Light touch on left hand.

                6.  Like #3 but listen to my technique.

                7.  Maybe full volume is NOT the answer.

                8.  Ensure the strings are installed correctly - note saddle.

                 

                Thanks again,

                Scott

  • demiand Just Startin'
    demiand
    2 posts since
    Sep 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 1, 2012 9:09 AM (in response to diggerbarnz)
    Re: acoustic sounds

    I think things are simple with me....I have a black JTV-69 (Korean) and i also have a blonde Variax 700 Electric....I've done all the updates on 69 (1.82 firm) and i play......!!!! Well yea minor changes for the acoustics ok maybe better......UNTIL I PLUG THE 700 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 700 has 1.000.000 times better sound on all acoustics and more dynamics, more active, more more etc......I suspect  wood has to do with it or even the new piezo or the samples are boomy.....It's like the 700 is bright shiny day and 69 is fog with shadows......For me you can have good electric sounds from many many guitars but good acoustic sounds from a few....Sorry lovely mates on Line6 but i think you have to admit that something is wrong after all these complaints.....Tasos

    • silverhead Expert Line 6 User
      silverhead
      9,592 posts since
      Apr 1, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Aug 1, 2012 9:43 AM (in response to demiand)
      Re: acoustic sounds

      Have you tried turning the Tone knob down to zero on the JTV v1.82? This firmware update addresses the 'boominess' of the acoustic models. Turning the Tone knob down is designed to remove the boominess and provides the dry signal of the previous models.

      • demiand Just Startin'
        demiand
        2 posts since
        Sep 17, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Aug 1, 2012 9:54 AM (in response to silverhead)
        Re: acoustic sounds

        The first thing i tried was that...It's very minor change to my ears.....It's like the instrument isn't "breathing" like the 700....Again i suspect that woods have to do with it....Thanks for yout interest.......

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