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3828 Views 30 Replies Latest reply: Feb 25, 2013 7:06 PM by STPLE RSS
STPLE Just Startin'
STPLE
47 posts since
Feb 21, 2012
Currently Being Moderated

Oct 31, 2012 2:48 PM

POD HD500 Patches with DT25

I have been reading a ton of other discussions and have a few clarification questions for those who have the DT25 with the POD HD500.  I am considering getting the DT25.  Right now I play with POD HD500 in a church setting through a PA & monitor.  The room seats about a 1000. We have a pretty wide range of songs and need of different tones (from clean warm to very tight heavy distortion - lead delay stuff as well).  I love the POD HD500.  I miss my tube amp.  Stage volume is an issue.  I can't run a tube amp cranked in that setting (maybe offstage but then volunteer sound guys would have to mic it).  I really like a lot of the features of the DT25 especially the analog tubes and XLR out, etc.  I have a few questions and would greatly appreciate those that have experience with this set up for clarification and help.

 

1.  What about the patches that I have now and use now??  How difficult is it to set those up for the DT25??  Is it as simple as setting them with the same settings but running the pre-amp in the POD??  In other words, is it as easy to copy over volume, treble, bass, drive, etc. on the current patch except for preamp??  Obviously, I am new at this - any experience and ideas would be appreciated??

2.  Along the same lines.  Right now I use headphones to create and tweak patches.  Once I get the the room I sometimes will tweak it further and then usually I'm set.  I don't gig out in other venues or rooms.  I have kids and can't run the amp very loud to work on patches (usually play and work on stuff at night).  I have read several discussions on the LVM but it seems that most have said to use the full amp model instead of the preamp models.  Does anyone else use headphones and then try and transfer the patch to the DT25??  Am I asking for trouble if I want to keep working this way??

3.  Several of my tones have dual amp modeling.  If I stack two of the same amps up together (ie two VOX AC30s) then the modeling with the DT25 is set to the same topology.  I'm good to go there.  Correct?? 

4.  If the dual amp patch is set with different amp topology then both amps will have to run on one amp topology.  I know this isn't "ideal" but has anyone had any experience in getting good tones with this type of arrangement??  How??

5.  Does anyone use the LVM for on stage volume control??  Or would defeat the purpose of having the tubes??  Would it better to run the cabinet offstage and run normal volume mode??

 

Sorry for so many questions.  I can't find a DT25 anywhere to test out and mess with in a store.  Our local guitar shops carry line6 stuff but not the DT25.

 

Any thoughts, advice or help would be greatly appreciated.  I'm sorry if some of this is a repeat of other discussions.

Tags: pod, patches, hd500, dt25
  • Slidedude Just Startin'
    Slidedude
    10 posts since
    Mar 15, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 31, 2012 5:10 PM (in response to STPLE)
    Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

    STPLE,

     

    When you use the HD500 with the DT25 over L6 Link, you are essentially using only the power amp section of the DT25 - so yes, all of your patches will still work. You can experiment with using the Pre only versions of the models in your HD500 presets, or try using the full models. Use what sounds best. There is no right or wrong. I use both, depending on the preset.

     

    If you create patches with LVM they won't translate when you get to the church and switch the amp to regular power. The gain structure is way different. I would NOT advise using LVM in a live situation, but YMMV.

     

    When you use the HD500 with the L6 Link and the DT, you will be hearing the tubes and the cab, so add in the Fletcher-Munson curve and I think you'll find you really should find a way to create patches other than headphones.

     

    I don't have a lot of experience with dual amp tones, but again - let your ears be the judge. Try changing the topology and see which one sounds best. I have a patch I use that is based on the Bogner voicing, but I run it with the gain pretty far down, Class A, and Triode. Breaking all the rules, but that's what so cool about the amp.

     

    And yes - using LVM defeats the purpose of having tubes, and uses modeling for the power section.

     

    All this is my personal opinion to some degree, and I would never trash anyone's opinion or rig, but I have a Boogie MKII C+ that I used to swear by, and I get WAY more tones and flexibility from the DT25/HD500 rig. It takes some tweaking, but so does my Boogie...<g>

     

    Tone is a subjective matter....but I hope this helps.

    • STPLE Just Startin'
      STPLE
      47 posts since
      Feb 21, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Nov 1, 2012 2:47 PM (in response to Slidedude)
      Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

      Thanks.  I agree so much of this is subjective.  I am looking for others feedback since I can't try it out.  I appreciate your feedback.

       

      Another few questions - again I'm new at this -  Is it pretty easy to not to use an amp model on the pedal and use the pedal only for effects??  I wonder if the 4 voicings that come with the DT25 are pretty sweet all by themselves.  I could see myself using or building a patch based off of those 4 options and use the pedal for effects only.  Again, I assume that you can still put some effects in front of the amp and then again put delays, etc. behind the amp in the effects chain.  What are your thoughts on that type of setup.  I assume it would be pretty easy to change to a patch like this in a live setting and roll. 

       

      Is a Fletcher-Munson a attenuator??  That may be a good option for me.  I can't crank an amp at home due to loudness, etc.  Currently I use headphones and tweak tones at the site.  I know there isn't a headphone jack on the DT25.

       

      Also, I read somewhere that the Line6 Link from POD to the DT25 should only be a certain length.  Is that true??

       

      Sounds to me like you really like the tones with DT25.  I'm trying to justify the expense.  I would get the head and cab - thus be able to move the cab around if needed.

       

      Again, thanks for your insights.  I appreciate it.

      • MartinDorr Just Startin'
        MartinDorr
        98 posts since
        Nov 3, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        Nov 1, 2012 4:11 PM (in response to STPLE)
        Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

        While I do not have any real experience with what you are trying to do (go from PA/monitor to DT25 (and probably to PA) I do think you will have to spend significant time on rebalancing the volume of your tones and probably tweak them sound-wise when changing to a preamp use model (or even w/o that change). Remember that within the HD the output level after your power amplifier and post effects is roughly the same independent from what amp model you choose (obvious intended differences not counting). Once you go through the DT you will get significantly different gain based on the voicing and the amplifier type selected as determined by your preamp selection (or further modified). All those poweramp control related changes will affect the volume coming out of your DT and you will have to re-level your tones. I like the DT sound, but I think changing to it will cause you real work that you probably should plan for to avoid frustration or unexpected problems playing in your venues.

        • STPLE Just Startin'
          STPLE
          47 posts since
          Feb 21, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Nov 2, 2012 7:23 AM (in response to MartinDorr)
          Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

          Thanks.  The setup I would use would be to go from POD 500 Line6 Link to DT25.  Then go from DT25 to the house (probably using the XLR out).  Depending on stage noise I would like to keep the cabinet on stage by me.  If it is too loud then I would have to run it off stage and use a monitor (from the house mix).  Stage volume is an issue - it is a church setting.

           

          I've been able to even out the volume levels with the current patches using the mixer in the POD HD 500.  Can I use a similar method??  I guess this will take a lot more tweaking than my setup now.  I've seen some discussions on volume - I'll go back and read through some of those.  Thanks for pointing this.

          • MartinDorr Just Startin'
            MartinDorr
            98 posts since
            Nov 3, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            Nov 2, 2012 11:33 AM (in response to STPLE)
            Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

            Makes sense what you plan on doing. I suspect all the amp models that fall into class A/B, voicing I on the DT (BF Double, BF Lux, Hiway100, Phd Motorway, and any of the new ones if you use them already) would be at the lower end of the volume scale while all the other ones would be higher assuming you started out with a balanced set. You can add a Studio EQ after the mixer to get another +18 dB option if you need to raise your volume beyond what the mixer does (it only goes up +12dB). But be careful and watch for over driving the power amp unless you want the effect. I suspect that you can only maintain your clean sounds as clean if you use low Drive and Channel Volume on the preamp combined with high gains in mixer and subsequent effect stages. Another option to explore for raising the volume on your clean sounds is to measure the level of your guitar with a noAmp/noEffect patch and a DAW via USB (to see the digital level). Once you know that you can use an effect or the Studio EQ and play with raising your level to about -3dB before you go into the preamp. Make sure to measure your achieved level w/o the preamp because the Studio EQ (and probably other effects) start to compress or clip if you get closer to 0dB and the dialed in gain values are not correct either (up to 2dB off when I last checked). I have no experience with high gain tone adjustments. There may be other issues with lowering the volume w/o loosing your tone.

            Good luck,

            Martin

            • STPLE Just Startin'
              STPLE
              47 posts since
              Feb 21, 2012
              Currently Being Moderated
              Nov 3, 2012 12:16 PM (in response to MartinDorr)
              Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

              I'm new at this and a lot of what you said is way over my head.  The whole idea for me in getting the DT25 is the warm analog tube sound along with different amp models.  I guess I don't understand what drives the tubes on the DT25 the preamp from the pedal (HD 500) or the master volume from the amp??  Or a combination of both??  If combination what drives it the most - generally.

               

              If I understand correctly the my pedal will talk to and control (via Line6 Link) the volume, drive, treble, bass, etc. on the amp channel that the patch is going through (A or B) and vice versa.  Correct??  Does this drive and volume drive the tubes??

               

              Is it wishful thinking to set the master volume on the amp (say at 5) and then try to go back to the preamp models (volume & drive, etc.) on the pedal to adjust overall patch volume (along with mixer)??  Obviously, there are some patches that I want softer and other more loud - depending on the song.  I've never tried using an EQ in that way before.  That may take some time to play with.

               

              Once I start playing usually there is little time to make too many adjustments on the fly outside changing patches on the pedal.  Again, in a church setting once it all starts there is no stopping.

               

              I guess I'm going for the different modeling that I love in the HD500 but wanting to add the driven tubes and analog feel and sound.

               

              Again - thanks for your help.

              • MartinDorr Just Startin'
                MartinDorr
                98 posts since
                Nov 3, 2011
                Currently Being Moderated
                Nov 6, 2012 2:52 PM (in response to STPLE)
                Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

                Sorry for late reply, just saw it ...

                 

                When you use the HD500 with the DT25 connected via Line6 Link the Preamp is modelled in the HD500 while the poweramp function runs in the DT25 (when you use LVM the poweramp is modelled in the DT25 as well). So in this former configuration all your effects, the preamp model (you can also use a poweramp model for tone) the CAB and MIC models, the mixer and any post mixer effects are running in the HD500, a digital signal is sent to the DT via Line 6 Link and the DT's D/A converter turns that into an anlog signal, runs it throgh the DT reverb, the optional DT effects loop and the Master volume control into the poweramp stage. Note, in this mode of operation the DT channel A tone stack knobs are just alternative MIDI controls for what your HD500 modelled preamp does, i.e., the DT25 preamp model is bypassed and does nothing. The voicing, amp type and tube selection still controls the power amp section on the DT, but they also report back to the HD500 via MIDI what you changed so it can be saved with your patch. The Master Volume on the HD500 does nothing and the Master Volume on the DT25 is local to the DT25, i.e., it is NOT saved in your patch on the HD500 and you would adjust it to your venue. Hope this is clear enough on the the topic of who does what ;-).

                 

                The Drive, Bass, Mid, Treble, Presence and Channel Volume knobs on you HD500 (or the DT25 Channel A) dial in what the preamp does and thus what get sent into the mixer and any post effects and then to the DT25's power amp section. If you have a second amp model in path B on the HD500 you will run it through the same poweramp voice, type, etc. selection you made for path A. If you select no amp in the HD500, Channel B in DT25 will be selcted and you can utilize the preamp in DT25 with the DT25 tone stack knobs. In this mode the HD500 is a pure effects processor stuck before the preamp running into the DT preamp.

                 

                The output volume of you power section is a function of your input level signal (coming form the HD500) and the Master volume setting on the DT25 (assuming the normal path A / Channel A use case and the Low Volume Mode switched off). For warm analog tube amp sounds you probably want no or hardly any preamp distortion and mostly poweramp distortion, i.e., Master Volume on the DT25 should probably be in the 2-3 o'clock range. That means for low volume the only 2 things you can do is 1) send a lower signal from the HD500 or use a power atenuator between the DT25 amp and your speaker.

                 

                The volume balancing problme you run into is that you will get different poweramp section gain for the different voicings and amp type A, A/B settings of you tones from the DT. If all your tones use the same voicing and amp type your balancing problem will be limited to the differences between preamp amnd poweramp model volume changes (I don't know what those are as i have never tried the poweramp models).

                 

                I suggested to add the Studio EQ so you get another option to raise or lower the gain either before or after your preamp and not to adjust your Tone. You can do that too, but by itself the Studio EQ will not color your signal frequency content and you would only need to change the gain knob on the very right side.

                 

                Hope my earlier comments make a little more sense now. Don't try to do this on the fly w/o rehearsal in your church setting (or any venue). Let us know how it goes,

                Martin

                • STPLE Just Startin'
                  STPLE
                  47 posts since
                  Feb 21, 2012
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Nov 8, 2012 8:37 PM (in response to MartinDorr)
                  Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

                  Thanks.  I think I understand.  I just need to get the amp and have it all in front of me and mess with it.  I went and looked at the Studio EQ.  To do what you suggest - do I set the gain control on the studio EQ only?  Not sure how to set the other controls (Lo Freq, Lo Gain, Hi Freq & Hi Gain) so I don't color the sound.  I need to get the amp and start messing with it.  I'm anxious for the analog sound and feel along with the POD HD effects.  I think it will be pretty cool.

                  • MartinDorr Just Startin'
                    MartinDorr
                    98 posts since
                    Nov 3, 2011
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Nov 9, 2012 1:23 PM (in response to STPLE)
                    Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

                    You can leave all the other Studio EQ controls untouched. In fact if you start with already existing tones you should first check whether there is not already a neutral gain knob in the effect before you add a Studio EQ just for that.

                     

                    I love my HD preamp models with a DT25 for home use (i.e., (mostly) low volume ;-), but as I said before I am into mostly clean tones for. Can't imagine you won't be happy.

                     

                    The Studio EQ is not as correct as I was hoping for. Its gain in dB is changed in 0.1 dB steps but the effect is up to 2dB's off from what you'd expect to see come out based on your settings. The only thing pretty exact is -18dB and +18dB (except if you are already above -21dB) and a couple dB's around 0.0. Also, I think the Studio EQ starts to compress and/or distort for any output level higher than -3dB. It does not seem to be clipping though or only at the very end of its + range. Will look more into this and post as soon as I feel I have something solid. The take away is that if you start with some signal level higher than around -24 to 21dB the Studio EQ will not allow you to do a full +18dB w/o some compression/distorion on the +18dB side. If you start lower it seems to be fine doing the +18dB w/o tone coloring.

  • DropTheSun Just Startin'
    DropTheSun
    41 posts since
    Dec 3, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 21, 2012 12:23 AM (in response to STPLE)
    Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

    Hi,

    I was wondering, if the Amp Volume control affect the overall tone quality? I've had to bush that Volume down on all of my patches, to be able to crank the Master on DT50. My High gain patch Volumes are set to 20-25. Does this weaken the signal?

    • MartinDorr Just Startin'
      MartinDorr
      98 posts since
      Nov 3, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Nov 21, 2012 3:18 PM (in response to DropTheSun)
      Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

      I think you are talking about the preamp channel volume. I am pretty sure it will affect your tone if make major changes, because it moves your input signal range from your guitar to a different working point on a non-linear amplification function (which is different for every amp and drive setting). If you lowered your channel volume a lot you moved toward producing a lower and CLEANER preamp output signal. While that will have changed your tone, most prefer poweramp distortion over preamp distortion, i.e., it may not be bad in the end result (besides that it did change your tone). I don't think there is a right way, but if you want to keep more of the original channel volume (and its effect on tone) AND lower the output signal in a sound neutral fashion you should use the Mixer instead. If you have the mixer set to center on both A and B channels you can get almost -6dB by just moving A and B to hard left and hard right. If this does not work for you just lower the output levels (-10 dB gives most people an impression of about half the volume).

       

      I can't make DT50 volume recommendation. I have my DT25 master usually around 2-3 o'clock and do the volume leveling mostly with the mixer. Use channel volume (and drive) to pick the preamp working point. If you need low channel volumes to get clean tones and the +12dB max mixer gain is not enough, use a Studio EQ (gain only) between the amp and the mixer to fill the gap. You can use the Studio EQ to get up to +18dB gain to about -9dB output signal w/o any distortion or coloring. If you go to higher output levels the Studio EQ will start to compress, soft clip, and then distort Use the mixer to go higher than -9dB if you need to. I recommend to use a DAW or other signal level measuring equipment to check your levels and isolate the cause of unwanted distortion when you balance your levels until you kind of guess right ;-). Good luck.

      • DropTheSun Just Startin'
        DropTheSun
        41 posts since
        Dec 3, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Nov 24, 2012 9:07 AM (in response to MartinDorr)
        Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

        I found this from HD500 manual:

         

        "Volume Knob - This adjusts the output level of your selected amp

        model without affecting the tone or distortion characteristic of the

        amp model."

         

        ...and to be honest, i couldn't here any difference between these two options:

        1. Volume knob down (High gain 25 and Clean 60-100) and the mixer was set to 0 (Zero) on all presets.

        2. Volume knob "normal" (High gain 50-60 and Clean 100) and i have to balance presets volumes using mixer. I think this option takes more tweaking.

         

        Could it be, that we can crank the DT50 Master to 2-3 a clock and get that "sweet spot" tube sound in bedroom levels just by turning the Volume knob low enough? This way there is no need for attenuator, to get the tubes run hot. Right?

        • hollis1003 Iknowathingortwo
          hollis1003
          342 posts since
          Feb 6, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Nov 24, 2012 9:18 AM (in response to DropTheSun)
          Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

          No, kake.  It doesn't work that way.  The power amp tubes respond by how much they are pushed.  If you are turning down a cranked signal, it is still only at a moderate level.  That does not push the tubes.  Conversly, if you send a quiet signal and then crank the Master on the DT it still not pushing the tubes.  The tubes "run hot" based on the actual signal.  Doing what you are suggesting would only make the noise in your quiet signal louder and would probably be annoying.

           

          It is very hard to explain without pictures and a lot of detail.  Just use the Low Volume Mode or an attenuator.

          • DropTheSun Just Startin'
            DropTheSun
            41 posts since
            Dec 3, 2008
            Currently Being Moderated
            Nov 25, 2012 8:48 AM (in response to hollis1003)
            Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

            Thanks!

            Just to be clear. If i run high volume level (i.e. Treadplate Volume 100, this would be really loud) from my preset to DT50, will the tubes get cranked in a lower master level?

            • hollis1003 Iknowathingortwo
              hollis1003
              342 posts since
              Feb 6, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Nov 25, 2012 11:24 AM (in response to DropTheSun)
              Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

              No.

               

              Let me try to explain this way.  My old 5150 head had an fx loop.  When I turned up the Master volume it turned up the volume of the signal coming out of the fx send and I had to adjust my rack gear accordingly to get unity gain (not over power the rack fx and have the same level come back into the amp).  The power amp is always running at 100%, the Master volume is just a final adjustment for the signal hitting the power amp.  The tubes are pushed by how much signal is hitting the power amp.  So, in general, it does not matter how high or low you have the Master volume set, it's the level of the signal hitting the power amp. 

               

              You can actually push the Power amp too hard and overload it.  If you took the hottest pre-amp in the HD, or maybe even a full model, and turned the volume all the way up, then turned up the mixer volumes and then you turned up the master volume on the DT I bet you could blow the amp (not reccommended, of course).

               

              The "best" way to set the POD is to set the pre-amps at around 50% for the amp volume (distorted tones) and try to keep the mixer at 0.00 but use that to adjust to get your presets unity.  Clean patches are usually close to 100% amp volume and then you use the gain for volume without getting too dirty.  Remember too that the power amp voicings in the DT will change the final "loudness" that is percieved.

        • MartinDorr Just Startin'
          MartinDorr
          98 posts since
          Nov 3, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          Nov 27, 2012 7:03 AM (in response to DropTheSun)
          Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

          From what I have experienced and measured, channel volume just changes your sound in response to your dynamic playing if the output level of your preamp stays less than -12dB. If your output gets above -12dB the preamp will compress and get overdriven depending on how much higher you go, i.e., channel volume changes will change your tone more drastically. Whether this limit (and it may be different for different amps) will be hit depends on your input signal level and on the preamp you selected. So if you are starting with a channel volume setting that caused your preamp to be partially operating in the compression range (it probably depends on how hard you hit your string or how high your guitar volume knob was set) you will get a change in tone if you lower channel volume because you either move out of or move deeper into the compression/overdriven preamp range. Also, even if you are not in the overdriven range of your preamp, the tone frequency and signal level amplification of any guitar preamp are not linear, e.g., 2dB more input signal (because you hit hard) will translate to different output signal frequecies and levels depending on where your working range on the preamp is. For example, if you come in with a low input signal a small change in level may give you a large increase in output while if you are coming in with a high level the same increase in input level may give you much less change in output level. Thus the whole experience (level and frequency) on how your preamp responds to your playing will be different (and therefore your subjective experience on what tone you get will be different as well).

          Hope this is explains what I meant with the earlier statement that large changes in channel volume will change your tone. But that is just all about how it works and it may not matter in practice for your case. It all depends really on whether you like (or can live with) the outcome of your changes.

          • STPLE Just Startin'
            STPLE
            47 posts since
            Feb 21, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Nov 29, 2012 7:45 PM (in response to MartinDorr)
            Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

            Thanks for all your input.  I've been reading these and rereading these as I have messed around with the amp.  I have been playing around with a lot of the different preamps on the POD500 in tandom with the DT25.  Also, I've been playing around quite a bit with just the amp straight without the POD500 - messing with topology settings, triode and pentode, etc. I LOVE this amp.

             

            Here are a few questions and clarifications as I now move to start moving over my patches to use with the DT25 and creating new ones.  Any help or direction would greatly appreciate.  I've only had the POD500 for about 10 months and learning curve seems a bit steep but well worth it.

             

            In general to create a patch with a preamp - would you start with channel volume (in the preamp on the POD) at about 50 to 100% and then adjust drive to taste?  Also, then move channel volume up or down for tonal changes as well as volume changes??   The mixer start at 0.00dB and then use that within reason for volume adjustments.  Lastly after the mixer I can place a studio eq to adjust volume - not exactly sure how this works yet b/c I haven't had a chance to mess with it.  All along I would have to keep the master volume on the DT25 the same thoughout set at 2 to 3 o'clock.  Am I on the right track??  I want to push the tubes and try as much as possible (within reason) to keep overall volumes somewhat consistent (knowing sometimes I want some patches and tones louder for obvious reasons).

             

            Also, I think the Reverb on the amp (modelled Spring - I think) sounds really good to my ears.  It seems as though on many patches I've created I can take the Reverb off the end of POD500 patch and go only with the Reverb on the DT25 - correct??  Again, am I on the right track??

             

            What does the Pres and E.R. do on the preamp models?

             

            Also, I noticed on the factory presets for the DT25 there is generally not a cab - why??

             

            As you can see from the questions I am very new at this but I see the potential especially for what I'm using the amp for.  I'm trying to get ready to roll with the understanding of how the parts fit together for when I start taking this to rehersals and need to make adjustments in a timely manner.  Again, thanks.

            • hollis1003 Iknowathingortwo
              hollis1003
              342 posts since
              Feb 6, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Nov 30, 2012 5:54 AM (in response to STPLE)
              Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

              I will do my best to answer for you.  It might be easier to have a flowing chat, so let me know.

               

              In general... yes.  It all depends on what kind of sound you are going for, cleaner sounds will have higher channel volume.  The most saturated/distorted sounds should be around 50% volume.  You will also find that the amp models differ (sometimes widely) in how loud they get.  The Bogner Uber Pre is one example, it is very quiet compared to the other high gain models .  The channel volume will not effect the tone.

               

              I wouldn't use studio EQ to adjust voume, only the mixer.  Using the studio EQ just wastes DSP.  To get the most out of the power amp tubes, you seem to be on the right track.  You can't really push the tubes unless it's pretty loud.

               

              I don't like the reverb on the amp.  I just don't enjoy spring reverb.  But you can change the reverb in the amp using midi now so you can put in there whatever you want.  You seem to OK with it, so don't change it.

               

              If there is no cab selected, then the Pres and ER do nothing.  Even if the cab is on, since the POD goes into "Combo PWR Amp" mode or whatever, that might turn those functions off.

               

              In my research with the DT-50, the factory presets all had a cab simulation but would then have an output mode selected per the amp. I can't know if the same is true for the DT-25.  Here's my logic:  If you have real speakers and a real cabinet, why use speaker simulation?  The only reason is because you want a different sound.  If you have an open back combo it's never going to sound like a closed 4x12 cab.  That's what the simulation is for.  When I was using a 4x12 cab and most of the sims would have been for 4x12 cabs, I turned off cab simulation.   If I wanted that 4x12 to sound like a fender then I just leave on the cab sims.

               

              Hope this helps.

              • STPLE Just Startin'
                STPLE
                47 posts since
                Feb 21, 2012
                Currently Being Moderated
                Nov 30, 2012 10:57 AM (in response to hollis1003)
                Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

                Thanks.  I really appreciate it.  I'm going to be able to play it at rehearsal or "band" level tomorrow.  A few quick questions.  What does Pres and ER do??  Also, I do have patches that I have used live that have Plate or Hall reverb in the PODHD500.  I would go directly to the PA before I bought the amp.  I will be able to still use those from the pedal (just turn off or all the way down the Reverb on the amp) - correct??  I don't have a midi controls set up for the amp yet - I haven't and don't plan to put the new firmware on the amp (I'll use the pedal preamps).  Is there a need for me to put the new firmware on??  I don't have the equipment (midi controls, etc.) for that now.  I do have the AES XLR cable I use to connect the L6Link but I don't think that counts.

                 

                I was talking about the setlist factory presets on the PODHD500 pedal labeled - L6Link <-> DT.  On my machine most of the factory presets do not have a cab simulation.  Ok this may be a completely dumb question.  If I plan to use this in a church setting and will most likely put the cabinet offstage (stage volume can't be too loud and I want the master volume on the amp set at 2 or 3 o'clock - which is 75% or so) - wouldn't it be beneficial (in general) to have a cab simulation??  I would use the XLR out on the back of the head and not mic the DT25 cabinet.

                 

                I really appreciate the insights.  Again, I am trying to understand the rationale behind good tones in order to reduce the learning curve.  At my age and schedule it is difficult to spend hours learning and experimenting.  This really helps me focus in on the main things.  Thanks guys.

                • hollis1003 Iknowathingortwo
                  hollis1003
                  342 posts since
                  Feb 6, 2007
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Nov 30, 2012 12:05 PM (in response to STPLE)
                  Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

                  I think by "Pres" you mean Presence.  It's like another EQ control on a lot of amps that kind of helps the over all top end (there is not absolute definition in this case).  Many of the original amps have them and many don't (so setting at 50% should be nuetral).  E.R. is the space between the microphone and the speaker.  The default is 12% (I think) which is an equivalent of a few inches.  The farther away the mic is the more "roomy" it should sound.  I always stick with the default.  yes, you can continue to use the reverb in the POD and turn down the reverb on the amp.  You don't need to upgrade the firmware but it's fun to play around.  A Midi Uno cable is pretty cheap at most stores.  You can't upgrade through the POD.

                   

                  http://www.guitarcenter.com/M-Audio-USB-Uno-1X1-MIDI-Interface-101962629-i1154079.gc

                   

                  Your second paragraph cannot be answered with any certainty because there is no documentation or explanation from Line 6 regarding what the cab sims or mic sims in the DT are and how they interact with the POD.  I would like to speculate but I might take a couple more paragraphs....... sorry.  You will have to go with what sounds right and maybe have to mic the cab.

                  • STPLE Just Startin'
                    STPLE
                    47 posts since
                    Feb 21, 2012
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Nov 30, 2012 1:21 PM (in response to hollis1003)
                    Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

                    Thanks.  I guess the cab question really is best answered by what sounds good.  I appreciate all the thoughts and feedback.  I love this amp.  I am very impressed by how warm and versatile it is.  I'm just scratching the surface and already seeing and hearing the potential of this setup (for my purposes - weekend warrior).

                    • BigBob-Irwin Just Startin'
                      BigBob-Irwin
                      9 posts since
                      Feb 11, 2012
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Nov 30, 2012 11:36 PM (in response to STPLE)
                      Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

                      Hi

                      on some amp models I do not use a cab the park75 to me with cab enabled sounds too bass heavy through the DT. I suppose when you think about it the DT has a cab all ready so has its own tone and we can turn cabs on or off to add a bit of sonic spice. Sometimes I use an other cab than the preset to get my sound and other times if I can not get the sound I want then I turn the cab off.

                       

                      Cheers

                       

                      Bob

                    • MartinDorr Just Startin'
                      MartinDorr
                      98 posts since
                      Nov 3, 2011
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Dec 4, 2012 9:27 AM (in response to STPLE)
                      Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

                      Per HD documentation (HD500 Advanced Guide, v2.10, revA, pg 2-8, 2nd bullet on Combo and Stack Setting: ...) the output signal does not include Mic Model or "AIR" convolution. I guess the ER setting would relate to the latter. My take on that statement is that Mic and ER settings do not affect the tone when connecting an HD500 to a DT via Line 6 Link and using the usual default "Combo and Stack" setting in the HD's "Page 4, Setup: Output Options" setting.

                       

                      The new DT FW update provides Mic simulation for the XLR output of the DT amp itself (see DT Series Amplifiers - MIDI implementation Guide, v2.0, revA, pg 2-1, 3rd Global Parameters table entry). There is counter part of the HD's ER setting in the DT. Mic selection has no affect on the DT's speaker output. per documentation, it only impacts DT XLR output. Have not checked anything myself.

                       

                      If anyone has other information (measurements of the HD behavior seem possible because different Mics have different gain effect when in Studio/Direct output mode), please comment.

                       

                      Regards,

                      Martin

  • johnlhayes Just Startin'
    johnlhayes
    9 posts since
    Sep 5, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 3, 2012 7:36 PM (in response to STPLE)
    Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

    STPL,

     

    Your configuration is pretty much what I have been using in a church setting now for several months (a DT25 head, two cabinets and the POD HD500.)

     

    No question at all, the DT25 is about the sweetest thing you could hope for; small, light and sounds great.  (My intent was to buy my brother a white EVH III 5150 Mini for his birthday, but availability was lacking, and when I went to the music shop and played with and tested the DT25, I was sold.  In fact, I couldn't leave the store without ordering one for myself as well!  When we took delivery, we spent the first week dialing in the settings to emulate the EVH 5150 III.  In this way, I felt that not only had I gotten my brother a "5150" as originally intended, but also an amp with a lot more versatility.)

     

    Anyway back on topic... I set all my patches to use the "pre" models, and definitely turn the cabinet emulation off. The only reason I use a double stack, is because it puts the speaker up off the ground.  Only I can hear the sound from the DT25, as it acts more like a stage monitor (ala Lincoln Brewster).  And yes, I use it in normal mode, not the  "reduced volume" setting.  And what I hear from the DT25 is almost exactly what I hear in the house system, although I had the sound engineer give me a very slight treble boost in the house mix due to some loss of clarity due to dispersion through the venue.

     

    I also put a volume module in every patch assigned to the pedal, so that I can slap the pedal to the heel and cut the sound before switching amp topologies that cause a loud pop.  And as you know, in church it doesn't take much at all for a sound to be considered a "loud pop."  And feed the house from the XLR out on the DT25 not your POD HD500.

     

    I have my Outputs set to Combo Front, but I believe it should be set to Studio/Direct.  But when I change it to Studio/Direct it really sounds awful, and the Combo Front setting makes the house system sound much more like what I hear out of the DT25.  (I have a question regarding this in to Line 6 for a recommended setting, but no response yet.)  On that same page it says my Focus = 570 Hz, Lows = -50 and Highs -75.  I have no idea how these settings got set, as I didn't set them that way.  I assume they were defaulted to those vaules.

     

    As mentioned above, for the last two years I was using an EVH 5150 III at church (yes, no kidding, but obviously "Hot For Teacher" is not on the worship song list) and it sounds sweet as well, maybe just a hair sweeter to my tonal preference.  I ran an M9 Stompbox in the effects loop to gain access to nice effects, tuning and a master volume (notoriously missing from an EVH).

     

    Admittedly, I prefer the tone from the EVH 5150 III, but to get 95% "there" with a DT25 for so much less money!  Something to be said for that.  And now my EVH 5150 III is not parked (well, yeah, it's heavy!) at church, so I have access to it for the non-church endeavors.

     

    The DT25 is a home run for sure!  The POD HD500... well, pretty good but has some issues.  But the DT25... home run, for me.

     

    Enjoy,

    John

    • STPLE Just Startin'
      STPLE
      47 posts since
      Feb 21, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Feb 17, 2013 10:11 AM (in response to johnlhayes)
      Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

      Ok.  I had a chance to use the POD and DT25 in rehersal a few times and one time live.  I had to turn down the Master Volume to about 12 o'clock due to volume (I will try to get this up around 2 or 3 o'clock).  It still sounded good.  I was primarily running VOX AC 30 model.  It seemed that the master volume on the DT25 didn't color sound much - the drive really colored the sound.  It seems to me that is a bit different that what i was thinking.  I was thinking the DT25 master volume would drive the tubes more than the Drive (I assume the drive is preamp stage).  Does this change with other models?  It seems to me that it does.  Not sure why.  Do different models behave differently in regards to how Master Volume, Drive and Channel Volume color the sound??    I know I should let my ear be the judge but a little direction would greatly be appreciated.

       

      Ok. Here is my main question.  I bought a Dr. Z's airbrake so I can have my amp on stage and use it as a monitor.  It is a sweet setup.  It does color the sound a little bit (makes it a bit deaper/less high end - very slight).  To be simple I use the XLR out of the head to the PA.  I'm confused on the cab sims - If I use the XLR out then do the cab and mic sims matter in the house mix??  I would like to stay away from putting a mic on the amp cab due to volume coming out of the cabinet isn't very loud.  It it true that the cab and mic sims are turned off when running through the DT25 cab - correct??  What about the XLR out??

       

      Lastly, I am working on a Treadplate patch.  It is very very loud!!  I can help adjust with channel volume and mixer and maybe yet a eq.  I have a question in regards to Triode mode.  I was playing around moving it to Triode.  In theory does the Triode mode color the sound??  And/or does Triode mode change the power amps (cut from 25 to 10 on the DT25)??  It does lower the volume.  I wonder if Triode mode would help drive tubes at lower volumes??  I'm I totally wrong on this??  I wonder if this is a possible solution.  I would appreciate your thoughts.

      • geppert Just Startin'
        geppert
        188 posts since
        Nov 8, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Feb 17, 2013 4:06 PM (in response to STPLE)
        Re: POD HD500 Patches with DT25

        RE: DT25 .... I like the Vox AC30 a lot and am currently using it as my main model. I use a "Clean Version" on CH A and a "Crunch version" on CH B.

         

        On the Clean Version I have the Master Volume up FULL, the CH Volume up FULL and I dial in the overall volume that I need with the Drive. This keeps the Channel relatively clean for this model. The lower Drive level the cleaner the tone.

         

        On the Crunch Version the Master Volume remains the same (up FULL) , the Drive is somewhere between 1 o'clock to FULL depending on the "crunch factor" I want, and the Channel Volume is backed down to equate to the volume from Channel A. Somewhere around 11 o'clock ish I find.

         

        So in essence, Channel A defines the over all Volume I need, and Channel B matches Channel A (or maybe slightly louder) using the Channel B Channel Volume. The footstwitch switches easily between the two. I really like this (and I am using a POD HD500 btw).

         

        NOTE: This is based on the guitar being FULL UP since reducing guitar level will reduce any crunch on the front end.

         

        I sometimes find that Channel B with the guitar backed down, provides a nice "clean but slightly more crunched than Channel A" Tone that I use sometimes rather than switching over to Chanel A.

         

        I mentioned that I have a POD500. I am using it at this point totally as a stomp pedal and using the DT25's onboard preamps as described above. With a DT Footswitch you can use either Channel A or B with the POD500 even if there is no active amp model on the POD. The POD will default to Channel B with no active amp model but the footswitch (or manual hand switch) can override and will put you back to Channel A with the POD still active as a pedal board. A little trick I discovered.

         

        I do use the POD with active amp models sometimes, but lately I have been trying it this way (as described above) with success.

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